85 réponses à ce sujet

[MrMrPendragon]

Wouldn't you say that it is more a difference between the setting and story the player experiences.
 
I think the setting, as in the world and it's geopolitics, is darkish, The story form the players perspective is more high fantasy where you have the option to do naughty things. 
 
I.e king of the Dwarves or how you resolve the elves story line, can be a bit unpalatable and the epilogue in DA:0 have some bittersweet or even bitter-bitter moments.
That being said i agree with you there is not really a sense of foreboding in the general story. 
 
The mature tone is kind of undermined by the "bridget jones" grade undies in the sex-scene and gratuitous EDI camel toes and Miranda arse shot type of things
 
philippe

Lol Bridget Jones.

Anyway, I agree that the setting is "darkish" and mature enough, and that the player experience is the odd factor. Again, the dark and mature theme is there, it's just a matter of projecting what they have in writing correctly so that "difference" will be miniscule. Because if something is meant to be dark, the player experience should feel like that, and not be undermined.

[MrMrPendragon]

I'd like to make a note of this being incorrect, as we get a cutscene in Origins of the Darkspawn raiding. I can't remember where, was it Redcliffe? The scene with the darkspawn slitting a man's throat, blood flying everywhere, people running and getting shot down, etc etc.

Denerim.

Hurlock slits a man's throat.
Army charges towards darkspawn.

And you're right, the statement is incorrect, but I said that with the intention that the despair doesn't feel like it's there, that the mass slaughter didn't "feel" like a mass slaughter. But Phillipe already pointed out that "player experience" is a factor, so that's all settled.

So all the things I said were based on my experience, and in no way should be accepted as a standard or something.

[Chiramu]

I think Dragon Age could be made a bit darker with the "dark fantasy" theme going. So far the best atmosphere I got from being trapped in a dungeon is from Fable 3, where it was pitch black except for a little area or light you made.

 

The Deep roads needs to be a lot less light, we are afraid of the dark because we don't know what lurks there. If the Deep Roads were pitch black, the red lyrium parts could be pitch black with red lyrium brightly glowing against the solid black; then it would be intense. 

In Dragon Age Origins, those darkspawn kept the Deep Roads well lit and very tidy in comparison. Darkspawn Janitor could be an NPC title somewhere in the game maybe lol .

 

Mature is the label I suppose they have to call Dragon Age to appease the fanatics in the real world. All the people crying out that video games make people bad, if Dragon Age wasn't labelled "mature" mummies and daddies would be crying out that their little boys and girls are able to kill people and sleep with people. Since you know, they buy things like GTA for 5 year olds now.

[darkchief10]

I think everyone here may be a bit desensitized after reading through the thread, just to throw in my two cents, everything is in the eye of the beholder.

[myahele]

Think DAO had a good mix "darkness" in it. We may not see the beatings, rapes, brood mother transformation, etc. But they are certainly there they are mentioned and you see the aftermath. It just doesn't force it down our throats and make a big deal about it.

In fact the characters are quite nonchalant .

[Ispan]

I got a greater sense of darkness when I took the time to read codex entries (Legion of the Dead entries come to mind), not to mention meeting Hespith and the backstory on the creation of the golem were rather disturbing.  Some of the more accutely "dark" moments occurred in optional quests such as tracking down Ruck in the Deep Roads or investigating the haunted orphanage in the Alienage.  I think we were able to choose how dark we wanted the game to be (especially DA:O), which is important for a broad audience.  Not all players might enjoy being forced to watch explicitly dark or uncomfortable scenes. 

 

These are supposed to be RPGs.  I don't think we should, as Role Players, be force fed every aspect of the story.  The lore and setting are there and we're allowed to explore them to the depth we enjoy and are comfortable with.

 

With a smattering of suspension of disbelief and some empathy I more keenly felt the darkness of many cutscenes like the battle at Ostagar and the end of All That Remains (the Kirkwall Killer), and the story in general.  The cartoony nature of DA2, however, took a little too much of the edge off in my opinion.  It took a little more effort on my part to appreciate it.

[TEWR]

I'd like to make a note of this being incorrect, as we get a cutscene in Origins of the Darkspawn raiding. I can't remember where, was it Redcliffe? The scene with the darkspawn slitting a man's throat, blood flying everywhere, people running and getting shot down, etc etc.

 

Two instances:

 

The first is the opening segments when it talks of other Blights, which look kinda like Denerim but are most likely representative of other cities plagued by Darkspawn during Blights.

 

The other one happens to be, as was stated, Denerim.

[Fifth Fleet Out]

This game will be about as "dark" as the previous two, meaning not very.

[Hadeedak]

Like a few other people have said, gratuitous darkness comes off as terribly immature and a bit grating. We've all been humans, and also felt this mysterious thing called hope. Most of us have also felt empathy (someone's going to deny it). So when you get a setting where EVERY SINGLE PERSON is just kind of soul grindingly terrible, it annoys me almost as much as a rollicking high fantasy where we charge into the dark horde, everyone's pure and noble, and they ALL HAVE THE SAME PERSONALITY JUST WITH DIFFERENT NAMES WHICH IS THE SAME PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF THE DARK DARK EDGY D...

 

Ahem.

 

Anyway.

 

It was really nice to see some hints that Loghain was actually kind of decent, and was not going to eat a puppy sandwich (to steal a phrase from Terry Pratchett). It made his darkness that much more plausible. Real humans make tough calls, and sometimes they don't work out well. At the same time, he was probably a worse person than Alistair. Though Alistair cheerfully executes him, so there's that.

 

I'm hoping a balance is struck. DA2 in general suffers from being unpolished, and it could have used a little more subtlety in the animation. That being said, I LOVE the fact that Hawke is not and cannot be a perfect hero. I thought Hawke and the stumbles were a lot more realistic. ... It's possible I prefer my fantasy slightly dumpy, as opposed to chosen-savior-brigade.

[Splinter Cell 108]

This game will be about as "dark" as the previous two, meaning not very.

 

Precisely my opinion, they had the events but they always failed to capture to shock the player. 

[zMataxa]

Precisely my opinion, they had the events but they always failed to capture to shock the player. 

 

I don't know if I would use the word "failed".

I think it was more by design.

Considering the creations of Leliana, or Merril, or Wynne, or even Aveline, heck even Isabela if you go deep enough, they all show a softer side that I think precludes the stark harshness that the games could do.

I personally think it's one of Bioware's niche charms.

[Hadeedak]

It's like watching a horror movie. If it's just nonstop jump scares, it really loses impact. You need some fluff to make tragedy mean something, and some horrible to make the fuzzy moments count.

[Nightdragon8]

I don't know if I would use the word "failed".

I think it was more by design.

Considering the creations of Leliana, or Merril, or Wynne, or even Aveline, heck even Isabela if you go deep enough, they all show a softer side that I think precludes the stark harshness that the games could do.

I personally think it's one of Bioware's niche charms.

I think the example everyone likes to use is Hawkes Mother and what happens to her... I think really, the Writers forshadowed it to the point where it was very clear that Hawkes, mother was not all right.

[KR96]

Would you say her cadaverous pallor created an aura of foreboding? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God, I've been waiting to use this one for a long, long time. 

[Splinter Cell 108]

I don't know if I would use the word "failed".

I think it was more by design.

Considering the creations of Leliana, or Merril, or Wynne, or even Aveline, heck even Isabela if you go deep enough, they all show a softer side that I think precludes the stark harshness that the games could do.

I personally think it's one of Bioware's niche charms.

I would use that word to describe it. If they were hoping to shock someone with the broodmother and what is implied about their creation they failed. Like I said the game has the dark moments, but it doesn't really make you feel like you're in a dark atmosphere. On the other hand, I do think that the characters have in large part a lot to do with that, at least your party members do. 

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

What exactly these things mean depends on which game we speak of.

 

In DA:O it ment pretty dark and elaborate plot. Not everybody who deserved happy ending got one. Not every NPC exsisted solely to make sure player feels his character is COOL and AWESOME and WANTED. Perhaps more importantly, much of the story and setting behind got unraveled through journal entries. In order to get full enjoyment of the game, you had to immerse yourself,get familiar with lore and history. You were in brand new, entirely unestablished fictional world that was kinda relying on you learning to understand and appreciate it's laws and cultures. I guss it is fair to say appreciating such approach might take a " mature gamer".

 

In DA 2 mature setting ment boobies and stuff. It delivers maturity in flavors a 14 year old who finds Disney movies " too childish now that he is all grown up" would apppreciate.

[zMataxa]

I would use that word to describe it. If they were hoping to shock someone with the broodmother and what is implied about their creation they failed. Like I said the game has the dark moments, but it doesn't really make you feel like you're in a dark atmosphere. On the other hand, I do think that the characters have in large part a lot to do with that, at least your party members do. 

 

About the broodmother.  Thats' an interesting example.

If i read you right, you are thinking the devs had planned to shock us.

I was thinking they were not going for full-blown shock value, and instead just the continued story consistent with darkspawn monsters.

To me it's consistent with all the other element effects in the game.  But that's just my interpretation.

 

I personally like the softer way Bioware has portrayed dark. 

There's enough elements there - just not Jofferey Lannister the torturer dark, nor Theon's Special Caretaker dark.

That's just getting far too real for my tastes.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Sure, DAO didn't really need to be Game of Thrones or anything but I'd still like it if they were more serious about things sometimes. Nonetheless, if you ask me the example for mature and dark is not really Game of Thrones for me, its Spec Ops The Line, and although its an entirely different game compared Dragon Age, they could learn something from it. The game is serious most of the time, even at the beginning. 

 

Blood Mages, abominations, darkspawn, human politics, etc. could all stand to be a little more darker and extension more intriguing, at least for me anyway. 

[LPPrince]

Sure, DAO didn't really need to be Game of Thrones or anything but I'd still like it if they were more serious about things sometimes.

 

Funnily enough, one of the things Dragon Age was inspired by was A Song of Ice and Fire.

[Rotward]

While I would never dream of accusing anyone on these forums of maturity Bioware does seem to like throwing around the terms Dark and Mature when describing the Dragon Age series, so what do these terms mean in relationship to Dragon Age Inquisition and how does the Dragon Age series qualify?

 

- curve

This post is so very mature, you sure showed us.

 

Dragon age has sex, alcohol, death, torture, suicide, rape, kidnapping, slavery, war... what more do you want?

[Splinter Cell 108]

Funnily enough, one of the things Dragon Age was inspired by was A Song of Ice and Fire.

 

That may be so, but if there's supposed to be any resemblance I really can't see it. It has more in common with lord of the rings than it does with Game of Thrones. Although you could compare Ferelden to the seven Kingdoms and the Therein bloodline with the Targaryens. 

[LPPrince]

That may be so, but if there's supposed to be any resemblance I really can't see it. It has more in common with lord of the rings than it does with Game of Thrones. 

 

I go back to my first post in this thread about those themes that might make someone uncomfortable.

 

Not even just that, there are some other links, inspirations you can find, for example The Night's Watch->The Grey Wardens, etc etc

[Splinter Cell 108]

I don't know about that, if those things are supposed to make me uncomfortable they didn't do their job, probably because its never seen at all or explicitly stated. Sure you hear about the broodmothers, you find a guy that looks like he was tortured but that's it, no more and it isn't really all that shocking. Maybe it is dark and mature, but if they're trying to create an environment in which those things are obvious, then I'm not seeing it or at least I don't feel shocked by any of it, much less surprised. 

 

Like I said before, I think the characters have a lot to do with that, especially the party members. 

[Allan Schumacher]

I think Mature is mostly looking at a particular topic from an in depth, intellectual and perhaps philosophical perspective.  As such, almost any topic can be portrayed as mature, I feel.  A hypothetical example I often use in threads where this topic comes up is an in depth look at a friendship between two characters that has its ups and downs based on a variety of external and internal events, in what ways that friendship is positive and in what ways, if any, that friendship is actually a source of negative.

 

 

I do feel it's gotten to a point where there's groups that expect "mature" to basically mean uncomfortable topics.  Whenever I see a topic about mature themes (on any forum, not just ours), I can typically predict that that means the topic will be mostly about violence, sex, rape, incest, racism, and sexism.  These topics are often dark, but I also often find they are often don't really make a story any more mature simply with their inclusion.  That depends on how their inclusion is handled.

 

I also think that for some people, explicitly seeing it (rather than just knowing it exists) is required as a form of shock.  Almost a slap in the face of "yup, this is mature."  If all the sexual underpinnings of Game of Thrones was removed from explicitly being on film, but we knew it still happened, does it really make the story less mature?  I don't think so.  But I think there are definitely people that disagree with me.  If rape exists but we, as the player, don't actually see it, then it feels muted and in the words of some even unrealistic or sheltered.  I always find this perspective somewhat startling since I've never seen such acts occur in real life, though I know they exist and I recognize them as being bad things.  Perhaps this is a statement of our ability to disassociate our reality from those we experience in media.

 

 

I'm definitely not someone that needs to see an act like that to feel it's a requirement of being mature (or even dark), really.

[LPPrince]

Well it depends on what we're taking "mature" to relate to at its core. Is "mature" the way you go about thinking of the subject matter, or is it the subject matter itself?

 

Let me try to explain that better.

 

Rape. Not exactly the kind of subject you talk to toddlers about on their birthdays. Its something usually discussed between adults. As an adult, you've had some time to experience many different things, those things imparting sense, knowledge, and the wisdom capable of discussing a topic like that. So rape, as a subject matter, can be seen as naturally a "mature" subject.

 

But thats regarding "what" it is. What about "how" to discuss things?

 

Friendship. Definitely something you can talk to birthday boys and girls about while they're still young ones. But you're not gonna break down the many types of relationships there are, specifically those within a friendship umbrella, to a kid. They wouldn't understand it, they'd need it simplified, so it'd be expressed in a way more acceptable to their age group. But to adults, again with the sense, knowledge, and wisdom gained through experiences in life, a subject such as friendship can be broken down infinitely. Analytically breaking it down would be a "mature" way of communicating the points being made.

 

So yeah, people get different ideas of what "mature" means when its brought up round these parts, and I think thats partly because some think of "mature" subject matter, and others think of "mature" ways to discuss/express subject matter.