140 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

"Did that all really happen?"

 

And we're done here.

[Sir DeLoria]

 
Quarians eventually die because they can't adapt enough to their environments without the Geth, lose 2 allies

What? That's BS, the Quarians are an eco-symbiotic species, their entire problem with the immune system is that their body has perfectly evolved to Rannoch and is weak without Rannoch's environment. All the Geth do, is speed up the process of the re-adaptation and help the Quarians boost their immune system enough to let them live without suits on other planets. Tali mentions how it will only take a few years at the max until they have fully re-adapted to Rannoch's environment.

[Sir DeLoria]

That major factor is eradicated after the Reaper Upgrade.
 
And, please: 'Ok, we have every right to hate you, Geth. Because after we tried to kill you all, you tried to kill us! You big bad meanies!' The Quarians should be gratefull the Geth didn't hunt them down to extinction.
 
And stop trying to make it look like you can only side with the geth in ME3. In ME1, in the first conversation with Tali on the Normandy, you can already tell her the Quarians are wrong. Something I've pretty much always done, even before ME2 was even released.

The Quarian government tries to shut down the Geth, a huge war ensues, the Geth win and the Quarian civilians(and non-Quarians too who happened to be on Rannoch at the time) are killed en mass except for a few lucky survivors who are naturally ought for revenge. Funny, that's almost the exact same plot as in the Terminator series. Humans try to shut down Skynet, Skynet nukes the whole planet, humans persist in fighting Skynet. And your conclusion apparently is poor Skynet/Geth, how dare the evil humans/Quarians try and kill them in the first place?!

The Geth had no right or justification whatsoever to attack non-combatants. Geth on the other hand completely lack non-combatants. It's an army hunting down civilians. Whoever started the conflict is irrelevant.

That combined with the fact that the Geth would attack any organic ship entering the system and let the Heretics loose on the galaxy because they "understood their goals". So yeah, the Quarians have any and every right to hate the Geth.

[DoomsdayDevice]

What? That's BS, the Quarians are an eco-symbiotic species, their entire problem with the immune system is that their body has perfectly evolved to Rannoch and is weak without Rannoch's environment. All the Geth do, is speed up the process of the re-adaptation and help the Quarians boost their immune system enough to let them live without suits on other planets. Tali mentions how it will only take a few years at the max until they have fully re-adapted to Rannoch's environment.

 

 

Yeah, but they could easily retcon that by saying that the Quarian immune systems have devolved more than they had anticipated, due to being forced to live in sterile environments for so long. It's just a hypothetical scenario.

 

For one, it assumes the Reapers weren't defeated at the end of ME3. And yeah, I know that theory isn't very popular with some people. But it's not really relevant to this thread.

 

It could easily be so that they simply included Javik's story about the Zha'til to make that Rannoch decision more difficult. However, I do not think the similarities are coincidental. Thing is, the whole 'From Ashes' / Javik content seems to revolve around not repeating the mistakes of the past cycles.

[Farangbaa]

The Quarian government tries to shut down the Geth, a huge war ensues, the Geth win and the Quarian civilians(and non-Quarians too who happened to be on Rannoch at the time) are killed en mass except for a few lucky survivors who are naturally ought for revenge. Funny, that's almost the exact same plot as in the Terminator series. Humans try to shut down Skynet, Skynet nukes the whole planet, humans persist in fighting Skynet. And your conclusion apparently is poor Skynet/Geth, how dare the evil humans/Quarians try and kill them in the first place?!

The Geth had no right or justification whatsoever to attack non-combatants. Geth on the other hand completely lack non-combatants. It's an army hunting down civilians. Whoever started the conflict is irrelevant.

That combined with the fact that the Geth would attack any organic ship entering the system and let the Heretics loose on the galaxy because they "understood their goals". So yeah, the Quarians have any and every right to hate the Geth.

 

So if I try to kill you and you punch me in the face in response.. I have every right to hate you?

 

REALLY?!

[Sir DeLoria]

So if I try to kill you and you punch me in the face in response.. I have every right to hate you?
 
REALLY?!

That's a terrible analogy.

How about you try to kill me and I beat you to a bloody pulp, make you leave the country and murder all of your relatives. Of course you'd have the right to hate me.

[Farangbaa]

That's a terrible analogy.

How about you try to kill me and I beat you to a bloody pulp, make you leave the country and murder all of your relatives. Of course you'd have the right to hate me.

 

You should try making this analogy to a Taliban. Because that's exactly what happened to them.

 

What happened here with the Geth and Quarians is as follows:

 

The Quarians tried to kill all the Geth. ALL. The Geth killed a lot of Quarians in response, but didn't even try to kill them all. 'yeah, but that's just what the Geth tell you, man, it's a lie!!" Yeah, and that the Quarians tell you the Geth tried to kill them all is.. just that, them telling you it was so. Difference here is that it's a fact the Quarians tried to kill all Geth. Yet for some reason, you think they get to be the one who're allowed to hate. While they, without a doubt, threw the first stone.

 

And I said this before: the Quarians are the reason the Catalyst is right, whether you broker peace or not. The decision of the Quarians to kill all Geth is what makes the Catalyst's logic right. 

[Invisible Man]

perhaps the geth were unable to view the quarians as individuals, and only saw them as a collective entity? and thus weren't able to separate the concept of civilians and military, and were thus unable to identify civilians from a military threat? does that actually change anything, one way or the other?

[Farangbaa]

perhaps the geth were unable to view the quarians as individuals, and only saw them as a collective entity? and thus weren't able to separate the concept of civilians and military, and were thus unable to identify civilians from a military threat? does that actually change anything, one way or the other?

 

Yes you are right, and no that doesn't change a goddamn thing. The Quarians are the genocidals (is that even a word, lol?), not the Geth. The Geth are merely responding to an immediate, lifethreatening situation..

[Sir DeLoria]

You should try making this analogy to a Taliban. Because that's exactly what happened to them.
 
What happened here with the Geth and Quarians is as follows:
 
Some Quarians tried to kill all the Geth. ALL. The Geth killed most  Quarians in response, but in the end decided to spare a few. 'yeah, but that's just what the Geth tell you, man, it's a lie!!" Yeah, and that the Quarians tell you the Geth tried to kill them all is.. just that, them telling you it was so. Difference here is that it's a fact the Quarians tried to kill all Geth. Yet for some reason, you think they get to be the one who're allowed to hate. While they, without a doubt, threw the first stone.
 
And I said this before: the Quarians are the reason the Catalyst is right, whether you broker peace or not. The decision of the Quarians to kill all Geth is what makes the Catalyst's logic right.

Fixed that for you.

Who threw the first stone is utterly irrelevant because what the Geth ended up doing was far worse than what the Quarian government did.

[Invisible Man]

@ necanor

 

how so? seems like the geth acted with far more restraint then the quarians did.

[Sir DeLoria]

Yes you are right, and no that doesn't change a goddamn thing. The Quarians are the genocidals (is that even a word, lol?), not the Geth. The Geth are merely responding to an immediate, lifethreatening situation..

Bullsh*t! There's a goddamn difference between defending yourself and wiping out hundreds of civilains who had nothing to do with the initial conflict at all.

That's like saying the Armenians could've wiped out almost the entire population of Turkey after the genocide. The Quarian government attempted genocide, the Geth actually did it.

[Sir DeLoria]

@ necanor
 
how so? seems like the geth acted with far more restraint then the quarians did.

According to Tali the Geth wiped out almost 99% of the Quarian population(that's almost 2 billion people). The Quarian goverment attemted to shut down a bunch of servers. Not exactly what I'd call restraint.

[Invisible Man]

so the geth are worse because the quarians failed in their attempt? that makes no sense. had the quarians not failed it would have been worse than what the geth actually did. is that what your argument is necanor? 

[Sir DeLoria]

perhaps the geth were unable to view the quarians as individuals, and only saw them as a collective entity? and thus weren't able to separate the concept of civilians and military, and were thus unable to identify civilians from a military threat? does that actually change anything, one way or the other?

"This unit has not participated in the hostilities why is it punished?"

Seems like the Geth should've seen the difference between combatants and non-combatants.

[Sir DeLoria]

so the geth are worse because the quarians failed in their attempt? that makes no sense. had the quarians not failed it would have been worse than what the geth actually did. is that what your argument is necanor?

Actually no, my argument is that only a select few of the Quarians(military and goverment) ever attempted to destroy the Geth. Yet, all Geth attacked every organic being in the Perseus Veil. I'm not defending the attempt to destroy the Geth, I'm saying that lashed out against innocent people.

[Farangbaa]

Bullsh*t! There's a goddamn difference between defending yourself and wiping out hundreds of civilains who had nothing to do with the initial conflict at all.

That's like saying the Armenians could've wiped out almost the entire population of Turkey after the genocide. The Quarian government attempted genocide, the Geth actually did it.

 

If the Geth had attempted it, there'd be no Quarians anymore.

If the Quarians succeeded in what they attempted to do, there'd be no more Geth.

 

And it's bullshit talking about civilians. Martial Law made all Quarians involved, definetly after the Quarians killed other Quarians that tried to defend the Geth.

 

The intent of the Quarians was far worse than the Geth's. The only reason so many Quarians died is that they still tried to kill all the Geth, even after their initial attempts failed. The Geth stopped all hostilities immediatly after the Quarians did. After that, they shot everything that entered there territory. Regardless or race. Extreme, but defenable. It's their territory now.

 

I have no idea how you can even begin to argue that the Geth tried to commit genocide. They didnt.

[Invisible Man]

what I was saying is that the geth aren't single entities. so it's plausible that they don't see a difference between an individual, a state,  nation, or even a race. all, one, or some are all the same to their perception (edit--- this is only a possible interpretation).

[Sir DeLoria]

If the Geth had attempted it, there'd be no Quarians anymore.
If the Quarians succeeded in what they attempted to do, there'd be no more Geth.
 
And it's bullshit talking about civilians. Martial Law made all Quarians involved, definetly after the Quarians killed other Quarians that tried to defend the Geth.
 
The intent of the Quarians was far worse than the Geth's. The only reason so many Quarians died is that they still tried to kill all the Geth, even after their initial attempts failed. The Geth stopped all hostilities immediatly after the Quarians did. After that, they shot everything that entered there territory. Regardless or race. Extreme, but defenable. It's their territory now.
 
I have no idea how you can even begin to argue that the Geth tried to commit genocide. They didnt.

CPPCG, article 2: "Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Wether by intention or not, the Geth comitted genocide by deliberately and indiscriminately killing Quarians(and other organics) regardless of hostility. Martial Law means nothing, all it says, is that the Quarian military assumed control of the government. To argue that every Quarian civilian was directly involved in the fighting, is blatantly stupid. Can children, infants, women in labor or elderly take part in the fighting? No, they're non-combatants and the Geth deliberately attacked them. Like I said, they also attacked and killed non-Quarians simply for being there.

Shooting down anything that enters is not defendable in any way at all. That's ludicrous.

[Sir DeLoria]

what I was saying is that the geth aren't single entities. so it's plausible that they don't see a difference between an individual, a state,  nation, or even a race. all, one, or some are all the same to their perception (edit--- this is only a possible interpretation).

Who knows? But it doesn't matter, because what happened, happened and there is no way of justifying it.

[RZIBARA]

The Geth can't be trusted, Legion proves that numerous times by not telling you about is plans. The Quarians are already your sworn allies and Tali did a hell of a lot more for Shep than useless Legion.

Peace or dead toasters. I prefer dead toasters.

 

I came in here fully expecting to see a post like this, and of course, I was NOT disappointed! The Quarians are idiots, and they haven't Shepard that much, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

 

The Quarians are much more trustworthy. Shooting at you while you're in a Geth ship. Going to war with the Geth in the first place while the Reapers are destroying everything.

 

Trying to commit genocide for asking if it has a soul.

 

But noo, lets blame the robot who isn't perfectly honest while surrounded by those cute Quarians that want to kill it.

 

Fantastic people, those Quarians.

 

Yep, speak the truth my friend!

[General TSAR]

How is it genocide when they are machines?

 

Skynet should have never been created in the first place. 

[Sir DeLoria]

I came in here fully expecting to see a post like this, and of course, I was NOT disappointed! The Quarians are idiots, and they haven't Shepard that much, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

They haven't what Shepard that much? Calling the Quarians as an entirety stupid for having people like Gerrel as leaders is like calling all of humanity stupid for having people like Putin, Bush(former) or Lukashenko as leaders. You can't judge a collective off the actions of a few individuals.

[von uber]

Don't know what all the fuss is about. I always go for peace, the quarians get their homeworld back, I get the geth war assets and then...
...
.. big wave of red time.
Sorted.

[RZIBARA]

Don't know what all the fuss is about. I always go for peace, the quarians get their homeworld back, I get the geth war assets and then...
...
.. big wave of red time.
Sorted.

 

Peace is my option as well, I don't see the point in not going for it. Also, MEHEM is my canon ending, so the Geth don't die