140 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

"I sound 16% more like Harbinger than any other VI programme!"

[AlexMBrennan]

 

what was the rational behind Shepard assembling the galaxies fleets to attack the Reapers around Earth (apart from saving Humans)?

None, and that nonsense was quickly dropped in favour of "Get everyone to help with the only device which might be capable of ending the Reaper threat"; since the Reapers conveniently moved the final piece to Earth we ended up being able to "Retake Earth" anyway.

 

Since you and I are human, marketing obviously chose to focus on that part no matter how silly that looks in the context of the story

[ErikModi]

Okay, but there are a few problems though.

 

The fleets weren't going to Earth because that's where the Catalyst was, heck, they didn't even *know* about the Catalyst's location until the last 1% of the game when we were just finishing off Cerberus, by then, the assault on Earth was a foregone conclusion. Upto then it was all about "saving" Earth "because"....but not for anything any more real than that. Ostensibly, it was to start fighting as a united galaxy and defeat the Reapers on Earth, but that was all there was to it. 

 

You're righta bout the narrative reasons why the Catalyst was moved and the "take earth back" marketing, but I felt that fell flat with the poor job that was done in game. 

 

Far as I remember, there wasn't any "foregone conclusion" about the fleets ALWAYS heading to Earth.  The majority of the dialogue is about having the fleets to "protect the Crucible when the time comes."  Of course, Anderson and Shepard wanted to retake Earth straightaway, but it wasn't until everyone knew that they had to take the Citadel, which happened to be at Earth, that everyone agreed that's where the fleets were going.

 

That's the point I'm making here.  The fleet was always going to go where it was needed most first, and where it happened to be needed most first was Earth.

 

As for not shutting down the relays. . . wasn't that part of the Protheans' sabotage?  So that the Reapers couldn't just turn off the Mass Relay network, so the races of the next cycle would have a fighting chance?  I know Mass Effect 1s dialogue with the Prothean VI talks about altering the Keepers so they wouldn't respond to the signal, but I got the impression that was more opening the specific relay the Reapers would use to return from Dark Space.  If the Protheans could also sabotage the ability to shut down the Relay network, why wouldn't they take it?

[AlanC9]

Far as I remember, there wasn't any "foregone conclusion" about the fleets ALWAYS heading to Earth.  The majority of the dialogue is about having the fleets to "protect the Crucible when the time comes." 

There are some bad lines, though. Notably in Shepard's dialogues with Primarch Victus.

 

As for not shutting down the relays. . . wasn't that part of the Protheans' sabotage?  So that the Reapers couldn't just turn off the Mass Relay network, so the races of the next cycle would have a fighting chance?  I know Mass Effect 1s dialogue with the Prothean VI talks about altering the Keepers so they wouldn't respond to the signal, but I got the impression that was more opening the specific relay the Reapers would use to return from Dark Space.  If the Protheans could also sabotage the ability to shut down the Relay network, why wouldn't they take it?

This is a reasonable explanation. However, it isn't brought up in the game. Another one of those things they probably should have put a couple of dialogue lines into.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Especially since it seems the Reaper's fleets are concentrated at Earth, I would just go ahead and find a way to send an asteroid into the Charon relay, like sending it through then using a lot of plasma torches change direction. Since not even the Reapers have FTL sensors, then wouldn't know there was a supernova coming to get them. Sorry Anderson, it's for the greater good. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Especially since it seems the Reaper's fleets are concentrated at Earth, I would just go ahead and find a way to send an asteroid into the Charon relay, like sending it through then using a lot of plasma torches change direction. Since not even the Reapers have FTL sensors, then wouldn't know there was a supernova coming to get them. Sorry Anderson, it's for the greater good. 

 

It might be easier to crash it into Pluto.

[CronoDragoon]

The problem with the storyline is that these races were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was even at Earth.

 

They were willing to commit provided Shepard - a representative of the Alliance and therefore Earth - did some monumentally important task for them, such as curing the genophage or securing krogan ground troops for Palaven. I don't see the issue.

[wright1978]

There are some bad lines, though. Notably in Shepard's dialogues with Primarch Victus.
 

I very much got the feeling that the large scale intent was to sell the player the message that they were there to save earth and it was only the skillful sections where that intent was successfully blurred into a more sensible nuanced feel that the aim was to save the galaxy message.

[Massa FX]

I believe its because Shepard is human and was on Earth when the Reapers attacked. But that's not really an adequate answer.

 

To me it is awkward to go chasing down a Turian primarch who's fighting the Reapers is his neck of the galaxy and demand help for Earth.

 

But... the only people that can answer this question will never answer this question.

[AlanC9]

They were willing to commit provided Shepard - a representative of the Alliance and therefore Earth - did some monumentally important task for them, such as curing the genophage or securing krogan ground troops for Palaven. I don't see the issue.

 

It's not really a plot issue. It's just that Shepard and some other characters occasionally frame the issues strangely. Like when Shepard tells Victus "I understand this is a difficult time for you, Primarch, but Earth can't survive without reinforcements." Not exactly pushing the Crucible plan there. The first meeting with the Council has a similar problem, since Shepard doesn't actually lead with the Crucible plan. Part of the problem is that this stuff comes early in the narrative.

[Ajensis]

Reason they attacked earth is that reapers moved the citadel into earth`s orbit, did you guys even play the game?

 

There's talk of taking the fleets to Earth even before the Catalyst plot twist is revealed, though. Before attacking Cronos station, you can ask Hackett what you'll do if you don't manage to secure the Catalyst. His reply is to take the entire fleet to Earth and give it your best shot.

 

It can't be denied that there's an insensibly high priority on saving Earth first and foremost. Which is great for us, but it makes little sense, as pointed out already.

[mybudgee]

It makes Sense to Mac Walters.... so what's the problem??

[Argolas]

It's not like it makes no sense at all though. Udina does have a point about why we would fight on earth, he just loses the discussion because the others disbelieve his arguments ("By YOUR reports"). There is two points:
 

1) The battle must start somewhere.

2) The fleets need to unite their strength.

 

If  the biggest Reaper concentration is on earth then that's a logical place to start. If the war against the Reapers can be won, the battle on earth must be won.

[wright1978]

There's talk of taking the fleets to Earth even before the Catalyst plot twist is revealed, though. Before attacking Cronos station, you can ask Hackett what you'll do if you don't manage to secure the Catalyst. His reply is to take the entire fleet to Earth and give it your best shot.

 

It can't be denied that there's an insensibly high priority on saving Earth first and foremost. Which is great for us, but it makes little sense, as pointed out already.

 

I'd forgotten about that particularly stupid dialogue. Throwing the combined fleet against the heaviest concentration of reapers makes no sense, other than as a 'charge of the light brigade' suicidal folly to be mocked by those who somehow escape rather than engaging them where odds are in your favour.

 

Even deploying the crucible superweapon at earth(before citadel is stolen and realised to be catalyst) always struck me as incredibly dicey. We haven't got a foothold there and the chances the reapers will overwhelm before deployment are high.

[von uber]

I always thought securing Palaven would make more sense as a starting point to amass the fleets.

Or even Thessia (before it got attacked) as a staging point.

[Argolas]

I always thought securing Palaven would make more sense as a starting point to amass the fleets.

Or even Thessia (before it got attacked) as a staging point.

 

Why there? It makes tactical sense to me to attack the biggest Reaper concentration first because they might gather their forces after their first defeat.

[von uber]

Why there? It makes tactical sense to me to attack the biggest Reaper concentration first because they might gather their forces after their first defeat.

 

Because that is an all or nothing shot with nowhere to fall back to if it turns into a score draw for example and you need to recuperate.

Plus overwhelming smaller contingents of Reapers with combined forces (thus limiting your own losses and maximising the Reapers) would make the Reapers weaker overall.

[wright1978]

I always thought securing Palaven would make more sense as a starting point to amass the fleets.

Or even Thessia (before it got attacked) as a staging point.

 

Agree completely, we've been sinking resources into Palaven and it makes much more tactical sense as a counterattack point until the plot forces a desperate attack on the completely fallen world of Earth. Sadly the simplistic marketing message had too much sway.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I'd forgotten about that particularly stupid dialogue. Throwing the combined fleet against the heaviest concentration of reapers makes no sense, other than as a 'charge of the light brigade' suicidal folly to be mocked by those who somehow escape rather than engaging them where odds are in your favour.

 

Even deploying the crucible superweapon at earth(before citadel is stolen and realised to be catalyst) always struck me as incredibly dicey. We haven't got a foothold there and the chances the reapers will overwhelm before deployment are high.

 

Plus, if I remember correctly Udina's plan to marshall the fleets to Earth was viewed as a dumb move, yet when Shepard proposes it everyone is on board.

 

Better to secure Palaven as that planet probably has a better chance than any other plus the Turians know what they are doing.

[grey_wind]

I think Shepard's obsession over Earth could have been a lot easier to swallow for a lot of players if the game gave us some options as to why we care about Earth. For example, if there was a moment in the game some character (like Liara or Garrus) asked why you were so focused on saving Earth, and Shepard was allowed to choose from some different answers:

- The highest concentration of Reapers is on Earth

- The longer Earth is under siege, the more Capital Ships the Reapers can manufacture

- I want to save Anderson

- If Earth is wiped out, unlike the other Council races, humanity won't have the numbers to survive the post-war galaxy

- Harbinger is on Earth, and I want to pay him back for burning me to a crisp

 

While far from perfect, an approach like that, IMO, would have made Shepard's sudden devotion to saving Earth less jarring.

[von uber]

Especially if shep is a colonist, they should be more worried about that shirley.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Especially if shep is a colonist, they should be more worried about that shirley.

 

I don't think any of Shepard's backgrounds give them a particular attachment to Earth. Even Earthborn Sheps have nothing but negative things to say about growing up there.

[BioWareM0d13]

I always thought securing Palaven would make more sense as a starting point to amass the fleets.

Or even Thessia (before it got attacked) as a staging point.

 

Palaven was certainly more strategic. For starters it was the homeworld of the galaxy's dominant military power. If the galaxy was going to stand a chance against the Reapers, it would need to prevent the Turian Hierarchy from collapsing. Second, Palaven unlike Earth had not yet fallen. It was still a contested planet, and as such a better target for a counter-offensive.

 

If Earth was going to be the target for the counter-offensive it should have been sold better in the series, rather than just being presented as 'because humans.' Have it stated that after the fall of Earth and in the face of stiff resistance on Palaven, or later Reaper offensives at places like Irune or Thessia, that the bulk of the Reaper fleet has left the Sol System leaving Earth potentially vulnerable to counter-attack.

[AlanC9]

I don't think any of Shepard's backgrounds give them a particular attachment to Earth. Even Earthborn Sheps have nothing but negative things to say about growing up there.

Hellhole or not, 95% or so of all humans still live there.

[BioWareM0d13]

Hellhole or not, 95% or so of all humans still live there.

 

The focus on Earth from a human perspective does make sense in that light. Whereas the alien species have multiple colony worlds with populations in the hundreds of millions or billions, most of humanity is still stuck on its homeworld. The largest human colony has a population of only 7 or 8 million or so. Less people are living on the entire planets of Elysium or Terra Nova than there are people currently living in Tokyo.