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[ElitePinecone]

This is a continuation of the Foundation #8 preview thread.
 
Issue 8 is one of the more interesting of the recent comics, mainly because it develops Brooks' story a bit more, and we see some familiar faces (even if Thane's appearance on the cover is utterly unjustified, given his role in the story). I think it's got more purpose than some of the previous comics, and I'm hoping the Rasa story is actually building up to something.
 
But now that the comic is out, we can also see that Miranda:
 
a.) not only knew about the clone during the Lazarus Project, but was completely in charge of it - overseeing its growth, managing the medical and science teams, running tests on it, and reporting back on its condition to the Illusive Man. 

 

(from the Dark Horse preview)

 

 

 

b.) knew who Rasa was, including her real name, her position within Cerberus and her major missions. Miranda gave Rasa orders twice during the comic, and she certainly had a long history with her before Brooks/Rasa started assembling the dossiers of the ME2 squad. Rasa was never once called Hope Lillium - that name is never mentioned, Miranda never says or hears it, and they basically interact like they've known each other for years or decades.

 
This completely contradicts Miranda's dialogue from the Citadel DLC, which someone posted in another thread:
 
Miranda: So... a clone?
Shepard: Yeah, saw it myself. Did you know anything about this?
Miranda: Just rumors. Nothing really caught my attention. But about this Brooks...

Shepard: Heard anything?
Miranda: Not as Brooks, but "Hope Lillium." Another lie, certainly. When the Collectors showed up, she put together the dossiers on your crew for the Illusive Man.
Miranda: Never paid her much mind. Interesting.

Miranda: My focus at the time was bringing you back. We needed the real Shepard not some cheap knockoff.
Miranda: I mean, really. A clone?

_______

 

I get that the universe is large, and that keeping everything consistent can be hard, but this sort of thing is just ridiculous. If the comic is accurate, then Miranda was either preposterously, uncharacteristically forgetful during the Citadel DLC - or she was lying to Shepard at the party, which has its own implications. If the comic is inaccurate, then why write it?

 

It's possible that all this will be explained in the next few issues of Foundation, but at the moment I'm getting pretty frustrated that after everything that's happened with this series, the writers are still being this careless - frankly - with their own stories. For a narrative-based game company that supposedly takes pride in its writing and in the universe that it has created, Bioware have struggled to keep their plots coherent and consistent, and that's really pretty disappointing.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 

 

I have no words...

[Tevinter Soldier]

do what i do……….if it aint in game it aint cannon!

[Steelcan]

Because Mac Walters has no concept of "continuity"

[CronoDragoon]

So the comic contradicts game lore and it has bad art. Ugh.

[AresKeith]

do what i do……….if it aint in game it aint cannon!

 

"canon"

 

Only difference is that sadly, they are canon

[VelvetStraitjacket]

What else can one expect from the guy that wrote the ME3 endings? Is he involved in the next game? If so, well...yeah. Prepare for Liara (or some carbon copy) chasing your character's D, inconsistencies and plot holes galore. 

[Steelcan]

I'd also like to point out that "Miranda" bears little resemblance to in game Miranda, she looks a lot more tan, and her eye clor seems off

[Wulfram]

Maybe it's actually Miranda's clone?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Because Miranda doesn't always tell the truth? Could it be that? Could that be what busts the bubble of Mirandamancers that she isn't perfect? Finally! Why wouldn't she know about the clone? It would be logical that she would just in case one of Shepard's parts in Lazarus didn't regenerate properly a replacement part would be available. Or in case Lazarus failed, the clone would be a backup. Just the way she answered the question in The Citadel DLC:

 

Miranda: So... a clone?
Shepard: Yeah, saw it myself. Did you know anything about this?
Miranda: Just rumors. Nothing really caught my attention. But about this Brooks...

Shepard: Heard anything?
Miranda: Not as Brooks, but "Hope Lillium." Another lie, certainly. When the Collectors showed up, she put together the dossiers on your crew for the Illusive Man.
Miranda: Never paid her much mind. Interesting.

Miranda: My focus at the time was bringing you back. We needed the real Shepard not some cheap knockoff.
Miranda: I mean, really. A clone?

 

 Notice how she deflects the question with "just rumors" and changes the subject. She is lying.

[ImaginaryMatter]

It's hearing stuff like this that causes me to never want to partake in the ME alternate media.

[ruggly]

Interesting.

 

I don't expect everything from the EU and games to be in perfect continuity, but that's a fairly big disconnect.

[spirosz]

#Waltered

[SuperStarSpectre]

What i think Miranda meant by 'just rumours' is more in context of the clone being ALIVE and running amok with Brooks/Lilium/Rasa. I don't think that constitutes as a lie; she of course knew of a 'clone' (Probably just something stemmed from similar DNA but really just a test tube Shepard for spare parts in case the real Shepard needed a replacement organ or five.)  but honestly, the context she's saying it in was about Brooks working with the clone. I don't think she had intentions of letting the test tube shepard live beyond what she needed it for. 

 

It is a very ambiguous sentence, but that's what I think. it doesn't seem in her character to lie about something like that to Shepard. Not after everything. And to be honest, Miranda probably didn't give two shits about Brooks while at Cerberus. I mean really, Shepard and Miranda versus Clone and Brooks clearly didn't work out in the latter's favour.

[UnicycleLoser]

What i think Miranda meant by 'just rumours' is more in context of the clone being ALIVE and running amok with Brooks/Lilium/Rasa. I don't think that constitutes as a lie; she of course knew of a 'clone' (Probably just something stemmed from similar DNA but really just a test tube Shepard for spare parts in case the real Shepard needed a replacement organ or five.)  but honestly, the context she's saying it in was about Brooks working with the clone. I don't think she had intentions of letting the test tube shepard live beyond what she needed it for. 

 

It is a very ambiguous sentence, but that's what I think. it doesn't seem in her character to lie about something like that to Shepard. Not after everything. And to be honest, Miranda probably didn't give two shits about Brooks while at Cerberus. I mean really, Shepard and Miranda versus Clone and Brooks clearly didn't work out in the latter's favour.

That was my impression as well. I find it hard to believe that Walters would have actually let something like this slip.

[Isaidlunch]

Would someone mind telling me why the art is so tacky? Do all western comics look like this or is this just a "stylistic" choice?

 

Because Miranda doesn't always tell the truth? Could it be that? Could that be what busts the bubble of Mirandamancers that she isn't perfect? Finally! Why wouldn't she know about the clone? It would be logical that she would just in case one of Shepard's parts in Lazarus didn't regenerate properly a replacement part would be available. Or in case Lazarus failed, the clone would be a backup. Just the way she answered the question in The Citadel DLC:

 

Miranda: So... a clone?
Shepard: Yeah, saw it myself. Did you know anything about this?
Miranda: Just rumors. Nothing really caught my attention. But about this Brooks...

Shepard: Heard anything?
Miranda: Not as Brooks, but "Hope Lillium." Another lie, certainly. When the Collectors showed up, she put together the dossiers on your crew for the Illusive Man.
Miranda: Never paid her much mind. Interesting.

Miranda: My focus at the time was bringing you back. We needed the real Shepard not some cheap knockoff.
Miranda: I mean, really. A clone?

 

 Notice how she deflects the question with "just rumors" and changes the subject. She is lying.

 

While this seems to be the only explanation, I seriously doubt Walters + crew intended for Miranda to suddenly start acting deceitful to Shepard in the happy sendoff DLC. That might have worked for the original vision for Miranda, but that vision is so far gone that something like this feels really out of character.

[spirosz]

 Notice how she deflects the question with "just rumors" and changes the subject. She is lying.

 

I believe she's lying as well, sadly - since I personally viewed her character growth as growing to trust Shepard, especially after all they have been through, but - I really, really don't take anything from the comics seriously, so unless a lead writer states it canon, I'll be sceptical of just terrible disconnected writing, like usual. 

[CrutchCricket]

Is there anything in the full comic that indicates the clone seen here is the clone in-game and Miranda would be reasonably expected to know that is the case?

 

If not, there is no plot hole. Using a clone for testing does not mean you expect it to walk around after. And since the real Shepard came back, a clone would be redundant, thus there's no reason to assume it would be kept.

 

Though it does put a strain on the Citadel dialogue.

[Iakus]

That was my impression as well. I find it hard to believe that Walters would have actually let something like this slip.

After ME3 I find it very easy to believe, actually.

 

It seems that the only "canon" is what's happening right now.  The future, the past, all that is meaningless.

[Steelcan]

I'm content to call this Walters being incapable of writing consistently

[ElitePinecone]

Because Miranda doesn't always tell the truth? Could it be that? Could that be what busts the bubble of Mirandamancers that she isn't perfect? Finally! Why wouldn't she know about the clone? It would be logical that she would just in case one of Shepard's parts in Lazarus didn't regenerate properly a replacement part would be available. Or in case Lazarus failed, the clone would be a backup. Just the way she answered the question in The Citadel DLC:

 

Miranda: So... a clone?
Shepard: Yeah, saw it myself. Did you know anything about this?
Miranda: Just rumors. Nothing really caught my attention. But about this Brooks...

Shepard: Heard anything?
Miranda: Not as Brooks, but "Hope Lillium." Another lie, certainly. When the Collectors showed up, she put together the dossiers on your crew for the Illusive Man.
Miranda: Never paid her much mind. Interesting.

Miranda: My focus at the time was bringing you back. We needed the real Shepard not some cheap knockoff.
Miranda: I mean, really. A clone?

 

 Notice how she deflects the question with "just rumors" and changes the subject. She is lying.

 

Do you really think they'd reveal that plot detail in a comic that barely anyone will read, though? Or that Mac seriously intended to set up that lie with a scene in Citadel then blow everyone's minds with a comic a year later? Come on.

 

As people have said, it's... completely ridiculous that they'd include something like that in a light-hearted DLC, the entire point of which is to reconnect with your crew and leave things on a positive note.

 

Either she's lying, or the comic reference is a mistake. Which is more likely?

[ElitePinecone]

Is there anything in the full comic that indicates the clone seen here is the clone in-game and Miranda would be reasonably expected to know that is the case?

 

If not, there is no plot hole. Using a clone for testing does not mean you expect it to walk around after. And since the real Shepard came back, a clone would be redundant, thus there's no reason to assume it would be kept.

 

Though it does put a strain on the Citadel dialogue.

 

There is only one clone. It's the clone project, "the clone", and everyone refers to it as such. Part of Miranda's dialogue suggests that growing that one clone was itself a difficult task. 

 

When Brooks succeeds at the end of the comic in recovering enough information about Shepard, Miranda is convinced that they no longer need the clone as a backup option - the Illusive Man orders her to keep it around for testing.

 

But there's nothing that separates Miranda from the Citadel clone here - Cerberus was only growing one, she was overseeing it, and had Brooks/Rasa on her team to boot.

[Philosophaster]

Also worth noting that the Lazarus Project is now situated on Minuteman Station according to the comic while it had its own separate station in the games. That would pose problems for the start of ME2 considering that Lazarus Station was ultimately cleaned out by mechs manipulated by Wilson. You actually visit Minuteman Station after the tutorial mission iirc.

[Coming0fShadows]

The clone story element in Citadel DLC seemed slapped together without a lot of thought. So now they are trying to make sense out of it, and create more confusion. Sounds about right.

[spirosz]

Either she's lying, or the comic reference is a mistake. Which is more likely?

 

Former. 

 

Mac Walters is always writing consistent work.