230 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

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Sure, but can you understand that from Bioware's perspective, the opinions of people who are still outraged after two years are probably a great deal less important than the ability of someone to do their job? Mac's history as a Lead Writer includes work that we'll never know about - more of his work in ME3 is probably behind the scenes managing other writers, rather than what went into the game from him directly. If he's now a Narrative Director, doesn't that tell you Bioware and EA think he's done something right, at least as an administrator? 

 

Nobody's going to say "gee, this person's getting a lot of negative forum posts, better fire them lol". The criteria for someone being employed is certainly not whether you think they've gone a good job keeping the narrative consistent. The validity of your points about ME3 aside, there is absolutely *no* way they'd ever be taken seriously as a reason to remove someone from a team. 

 

You're fine to keep saying that, but my point is that Bioware is not going to listen to you. And in the process of saying that, over and over again, you've also ensured that any other feedback you have is going to be discarded - because frankly, the response to calling for someone's firing is going to be defensiveness. Not just from Mac, but from everyone who works with him and Bioware as a company. 

 

It doesn't need to be said that this is not a foundation for a good fan-developer relationship.

[CrutchCricket]

Sure, but can you understand that from Bioware's perspective, the opinions of people who are still outraged after two years are probably a great deal less important than the ability of someone to do their job? Mac's history as a Lead Writer includes work that we'll never know about - more of his work in ME3 is probably behind the scenes managing other writers, rather than what went into the game from him directly. If he's now a Narrative Director, doesn't that tell you Bioware and EA think he's done something right, at least as an administrator?

 

Administrative proficiency does not a good writer make. If Walters has management skills good for him. But he's still messing with the continuity by writing and not bothering to check his own damn lore. If the job title change means his responsibilities will be more administrative and less creative i.e. he manages people who are going to be better at keeping it all together, fine. Unfortunately we don't know if that interpretation is too generous.

 

And what does elapsed time have to do with it? The endings don't get less shitty with age. Sure maybe none of us are foaming at the mouth anymore, maybe we don't even play the game anymore. That doesn't mean that if the question comes up we're just going to forget what happened. You get burned on a stove, you heal. But that doesn't mean you forget and go touching the stove again.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Sure, but can you understand that from Bioware's perspective, the opinions of people who are still outraged after two years are probably a great deal less important than the ability of someone to do their job? Mac's history as a Lead Writer includes work that we'll never know about - more of his work in ME3 is probably behind the scenes managing other writers, rather than what went into the game from him directly. If he's now a Narrative Director, doesn't that tell you Bioware and EA think he's done something right, at least as an administrator? 

 

Nobody's going to say "gee, this person's getting a lot of negative forum posts, better fire them lol". The criteria for someone being employed is certainly not whether you think they've gone a good job keeping the narrative consistent. The validity of your points about ME3 aside, there is absolutely *no* way they'd ever be taken seriously as a reason to remove someone from a team. 

 

You're fine to keep saying that, but my point is that Bioware is not going to listen to you. And in the process of saying that, over and over again, you've also ensured that any other feedback you have is going to be discarded - because frankly, the response to calling for someone's firing is going to be defensiveness. Not just from Mac, but from everyone who works with him and Bioware as a company. 

 

It doesn't need to be said that this is not a foundation for a good fan-developer relationship.

 

I know BW isn't going to listen to me. And believe me, I think they're lesser for it. Mass Effect is going to suffer as a franchise if they don't try and learn from it. I'm not trying to tell them what I want them to do for a story. I'm telling them what I think is a problem with their current method.

 

As I said, I'm not doing the foaming at the mouth rage, or insulting, burning bitterness schpeel. I'm simply trying to make the most objective view I can on any and all data available to the public and giving my response on it. I'm not even going to say that Mac needs to be entirely removed from the project. But his work and position, from this lowly humble fan, I reckon needs to be reevaluated.

 

As far as fan-developer relationships goes, I've stated what I believe is the issue. Not just more communication, but honest communication, and a willingness to come and legitimately hear criticisms that aren't sugar-coated like a civilian human resource department and verbally address them. Clarify. Talk about what they were shooting for and how they felt they hit what they did and listen and respond to things people say. To sort of get into a more discussion mode. Get them to come out of their castle every so often and hear what the layman thought about something or what they got out of it and show some general enthusiasm in it. And not just be afraid to hear someone with a negative opinion. Avoid the haters yeah, but never avoid legitimate feedback, even if its one person. Even if its not something that will be addressed, it's still always great to hear as many perspectives as possible.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

You realise he wrote Wrex and Garrus in ME1, right? Mass Effect needs those characters occasionally. I might not like where the series ended up, but Mac did a great job on the characters he was given.

It's strange that the guy who wrote my favorite squadmates in ME1 and my favorite ME comic series (Evolution) was also responsible for the thing I hate most about the Mass Effect universe, the ending of ME3. 

 

If there's a list somewhere that says which writer wrote which characters and parts of the game, it would be very interesting to see. 

 

 

Next, he does have a tendency to inflect too much of his own preferences into a story, up to an including his views on certain characters and his own ideals into a story. Now I understand that writer bias is going to occur. I'm not here to talk about that, or why it's obvious Mac's views are going to be inflected into the tone of the universe or why. I'm saying that in game, that presentation shouldn't be the only one (since it is specifically an RP'ing game designed to allow the player to make a complex PC capable of having different views and opinions over most, if not all, of the important aspects and details related to the story and universe. This includes interaction with squadmates and player agency in the main PC. 

This is probably the reason why I like some of his work and hate others. The stuff I like is his writing for other characters where he can create their personality and ideals, but it seems he tried to do the same for Shepard - and that should be the player's choice. Shepard, especially at the end of ME3, acted in a way that I believe was inconsistent with how they had been portrayed in previous games, by both the player (depending on dialogue) and the few aspects of the character that were pre-defined. 

 

This has been a sudden delight to read over the last two posts but I do want to interject very briefly when I point out that all across ME3's development phase there were statements from several writers about a stated goal to define Shepard and a distaste toward how "lifeless" they viewed him in the first two games.

At the time most players assumed this would come in the manner of a plethora of new opportunities for they themselves to do the defining, so of course it was with common surprise when Shepard began tangents and lengthy streaks of autodialogue and forced responses to key events and was on the whole effectively taken away from the player.

Yeah, I remember watching that video and thinking exactly what you said. How disappointed I was to find out this meant the game would be defining Shepard for us, instead of giving us more roleplaying opportunities. 

 

 

And what does elapsed time have to do with it? The endings don't get less shitty with age. Sure maybe none of us are foaming at the mouth anymore, maybe we don't even play the game anymore. That doesn't mean that if the question comes up we're just going to forget what happened. 

I think this is the most telling of all. When I finished ME1, I loved the game so much that I started another playthrough right away. I lost count of how many times I played ME2's suicide mission, trying out different character and dialogue combos. I haven't played ME3 since I beat the game in summer of 2012. I plan to play it again eventually with my other Shepards (stopping before the ending, of course) but there are other games I enjoy more that I'm playing now - and that, to me, says a lot. After ME1 and ME2, there were no others that I enjoyed more. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

It's strange that the guy who wrote my favorite squadmates in ME1 and my favorite ME comic series (Evolution) was also responsible for the thing I hate most about the Mass Effect universe, the ending of ME3. 

 

If there's a list somewhere that says which writer wrote which characters and parts of the game, it would be very interesting to see. 

 

Here's an unofficial list: http://social.biowar...15871961-1.html

[The Sarendoctrinator]

 

Here's an unofficial list: http://social.biowar...15871961-1.html

 

Thanks!  Several of my favorite characters were actually written by Mac Walters then (ME1 Garrus and Wrex, TIM, Aria). Drew Karpyshyn wrote my favorite character overall (Saren) and also the best Reaper in my opinion (Sovereign). They each wrote Anderson in one game too, and I consider him one of the more interesting side characters. Other favorites by Patrick Weekes (ME2 Garrus, ME2/ME3 Tali and Mordin) and John Dombrow (ME3 Garrus and Wrex, Eve). 

 

Based on that, I think Mac's strong point is probably character writing... as long as it's not autodialogue for Shepard.