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[dragonflight288]

A few Aveline dialogues caught my attention. Ironically, they all are with Anders.

 

 

• Aveline: You're glaring, Anders. Is there a reason, or is it one of your moods?
• Anders: Your term as captain hasn't been particularly "mage friendly."
• Aveline: I've only turned a handful over to the templars.
• Anders: Every despot starts somewhere.
• Aveline: And yet I allow an abomination to whine at me! Credit where it's due.

 

 

and

 

 

 

• Anders: I suppose you're just thrilled how the knight-commander's basically stepped into the viscount's seat?
• Aveline: She can't stall the process forever. It's not her place.
• Aveline: Leaving the viscount's seat empty will just tempt people to fight for it. It will cause more trouble than it prevents.
• Anders: Well. You've got a brain in there after all.
• Anders: I was convinced that headband was to keep it from falling out.

 

and from Legacy

 

 

 

• Aveline: Right. Any second I'll surrender to the almighty power of "guard captain" and enslave all mages.
• Anders: What are you talking about?
• Aveline: Look out. Authority. Ooh.
• Anders: Shut up.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Locking out an entire class? I highly disagree with that sentiment.

The point is that it would never have been a class to begin with. Now it is too late. But if you had never been able to play mage from the very beginning, you wouldn't miss it either.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

A few Aveline dialogues caught my attention. Ironically, they all are with Anders.

 

 

• Aveline: You're glaring, Anders. Is there a reason, or is it one of your moods?
• Anders: Your term as captain hasn't been particularly "mage friendly."
• Aveline: I've only turned a handful over to the templars.
• Anders: Every despot starts somewhere.
• Aveline: And yet I allow an abomination to whine at me! Credit where it's due.

 

 

and

 

 

 

• Anders: I suppose you're just thrilled how the knight-commander's basically stepped into the viscount's seat?
• Aveline: She can't stall the process forever. It's not her place.
• Aveline: Leaving the viscount's seat empty will just tempt people to fight for it. It will cause more trouble than it prevents.
• Anders: Well. You've got a brain in there after all.
• Anders: I was convinced that headband was to keep it from falling out.

 

and from Legacy

 

 

 

• Aveline: Right. Any second I'll surrender to the almighty power of "guard captain" and enslave all mages.
• Anders: What are you talking about?
• Aveline: Look out. Authority. Ooh.
• Anders: Shut up.

 

Thanks for this!  I love Aveline.  I didn't know about the MotA dialogue, but I've only done it twice and never with Ave in my party.  I'll have to fix that in a couple of months when I play again.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well I'll be.  Qistina, I completely agree with you on that one.  

[Hellion Rex]

The point is that it would never have been a class to begin with. Now it is too late. But if you had never been able to play mage from the very beginning, you wouldn't miss it either.

I wouldn't have bothered to play the game to begin with, to be honest.

[Grieving Natashina]

I wouldn't have bothered to play the game to begin with, to be honest.

It wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but I would have been less inclined to play DA with mages unavailable as a player class.   

[Cainhurst Crow]

I would probably have been one of many on these forums asking for bioware to make the mage class playable. Just like how people were asking for playable qunari.

[Hellion Rex]

It wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but I would have been less inclined to play DA with mages unavailable as a player class.   

To be honest, it was the somewhat unique magic system that drew me into the series, so otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

[Grieving Natashina]

I would probably have been one of many on these forums asking for bioware to make the mage class playable. Just like how people were asking for playable qunari.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  Couldn't you imagine the posts from some of the angrier folks out there?

 

"Some cheapo fantasy game this is.  You can't even be a mage, which is total crap.  The game I love <insert most fantasy titles with mage here> has a spellcasting class and it works great!   Don't tell me that it's due to the lures of blood magic, just make the PC immune to it."

 

And that's my theory about why they included mages.  Most fantasy games have it to the point of the average RPG consumer probably expects it.  

 

So, hopefully we can go back to trying to discuss the inclusion of more moderate characters.  Not just companions either (I agree about Aveline and our two rogues in DA2,) but for NPCs as well.

 

Or you guys can go back to fighting over women and men in different styles of dresses.  Whatever works.

[dragonflight288]

Thanks for this!  I love Aveline.  I didn't know about the MotA dialogue, but I've only done it twice and never with Ave in my party.  I'll have to fix that in a couple of months when I play again.

 

You're welcome.

[EmissaryofLies]

Thedas needs more level headed moderates like Adrian or Karras. Kind hearted, virtuous men and women to lead the charge against the extremists of both factions.

[Hellion Rex]

Thedas needs more level headed moderates like Adrian or Karras. Kind hearted, virtuous men and women to lead the charge against the extremists of both factions.

....please tell me you are being sarcastic. You're scaring me, Scar.

[EmissaryofLies]

....please tell me you are being sarcastic. You're scaring me, Scar.

 

/Bison

 

Of course!

[EmissaryofLies]

Yeah I like Duncan. Though I do believe that he was tip-toeing around and being political so as to gain as many recruits as possible. He comes across as a decent person, but I never got the feeling I was talking to him rather than the warden commander.

 

I only know Duncan from Origins, so I'm biased.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Moderate doesn't mean neutral. Aveline and Wynne were both moderates, and neither of them were neutral. Lawful neutral, being upholden to doing what's in the law while not being zealot about it, and chaotic neutral, doing what you want to without being beholden to evil or good, are both just as valid for being neutral as true neutrality, believing and being beholden to nothing. Same goes for neutral good and neutral evil in a way, in that you don't need to go to one side fo the extreme or the other to form an opinion and stick up for it.

 

If aveline had been as vocal about her views during some of the cutscenes as much as she was in the ambient dialouge posted here I think I'd like her more then I already do, and she's already my favorite character in dragon age 2. She isn't siding with any of the extremes trying to tear the city apart, but she still has her own beliefs and values she doesn't mind pushing forward.

[The Elder King]

Yeah I like Duncan. Though I do believe that he was tip-toeing around and being political so as to gain as many recruits as possible. He comes across as a decent person, but I never got the feeling I was talking to him rather than the warden commander.
 
I only know Duncan from Origins, so I'm biased.

Well, Wardens had only recently been admitted again in Ferelden (Duncan played a role in it), and they had scarce resources, men and support. He couldn't ****** off people.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'd consider a lot of the non-extreme characters, zevren, isabela, varric, oghren, etc, to be chaotic neutral. Mostly their out for what benefits them and fits their wants and desires first and foremost, but don't mind making exceptions for their friends.

[EmissaryofLies]

Chaotic neutrals are my absolute favorite. The best around.

 

I wonder who'll fit that bill in Inquistion if not the Inquisitor himself.

 

Edit: My idea of Chaotic Neutral is Stone Cold Steve Austin, for those who grew up watchin' rasslin.

[Xilizhra]

I consider Zevran to be neutral evil, personally. Maybe he shifted after Origins was over, but he was far too happy to commit murder, on the whole, to not be evil.

[Hellion Rex]

I consider Zevran to be neutral evil, personally. Maybe he shifted after Origins was over, but he was far too happy to commit murder, on the whole, to not be evil.

Don't be talkin bout my favorite elf like that.

[LarryDavid]

I don't think some random atheist or random Muslim hater will go there and just destroy it...unless the person is going there for a purpose, that is purposely going there to destroy it.

 

But the warden purpose going there is not to destroy it isn't it? Unless the player is metagame, no player will have any idea the actual purpose of searching the urn other than to take a pinch of ash.

 

The option only come after meet with Kolgrim, a religious figure, fanatic one. You doing the job for him...you destroy the ash in his behalf, he have his agenda...but you? This is for the first time player...

 

Afterward, when you know you can destroy the urn and learn a bit more about DA religion and what is what...you purposely going there to do the evil thing by accepting Kolgrim offer...you metagame...you want to destroy the ash

 

back to the first, no one doing evil just because the sake of evil alone...there are purposes, purposely...with intention and motive...or else you have mental problem

 

I fail to see why the initial purpose of the warden is relevant to this discussion. A few weeks ago I went to a mall with the purpose to buy food, but I ended up buying food and an awsome dino set from Playmobil. We can have a discussion about the fact that I haven't called my wife to ask if it is oke to spend 150euro of our money on Playmbol. What is certain is that in this case the purpose for me being in the mall is completely irrelevant for that discussion.

 

Furthermore, I still don't see how you can claim that destroying the ashes is inherent evil. When hearing about the ashes, my first warden first thought was about destroying it after taking a pinch because the world isn't ready for it. Brother Genitivi paid the price for not having the option to do so after killing Kolgrim.

[wright1978]

Aveline does strike me as the closest thing the game had to a moderate (as opposed to Varic and Isabella who are mostly not invested in the issue). She believes the Knight Commander and templars do important work, but still tolerates working with mages and opposes the Templars' power grab.

 

Think Aveline is very much a duty and order person and her polar oppositie is Isabela is who is freedom oriented. Both are equally moderate in my eyes but just with her role Aveline has more day to day involvement whilst Isabela has a lassiez faire approach.