444 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

**** thst noise, we're already going to plenty of that from the npc's and I'd rather have at least 1 companion who wasn't a doormat to the others insane verbal vomit. We need a character who will look at both sides, not be afraid to tell them it's stupid and exactly why it's stupid, and not back down because it might hurt their feelings. If the PC doesn't like his view they can have the option to shut them down but having a characters those of the middle ground can be proud to look up to is long overdue.

 

To be honest this sounds less and less like a moderate approach.  It's still very aggressive and could be seen as extreme, but simply someone that is extremely pragmatic.

[Natashina]

To be honest this sounds less and less like a moderate approach.  It's still very aggressive and could be seen as extreme, but simply someone that is extremely pragmatic.

Oh good, it wasn't just me then.  I wasn't sure how to approach Jen's post.

[Divine Justinia V]

Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, Leiliana, Loghain.

How was Leliana extreme?

[Master Warder Z_]

Extremism is needed in DA given how high tempers run on most subjects that come up within the universe.

 

You cannot be halfhearted on a good majority of issues if you are going to take part in them actively.

[Master Warder Z_]

How was Leliana extreme?

 

I assume it has something to do with her pragmatic twirling from sociopath to chantry supporting lunatic.

 

And this is coming from someone who supports the Chantry in DA 

[Rainbow Wyvern]

I assume it has something to do with her pragmatic twirling from sociopath to chantry supporting lunatic.

 

And this is coming from someone who supports the Chantry in DA 

How was she a sociopath in anyway shape or form..?

[Star fury]

Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, Leiliana, Loghain.

You could probably say that about Loghain.

 

And Alistair as extremist? Alistair? Leliana? LMAO you've got to be kidding or WUMming.

[Allan Schumacher]

This is why people were asking you for what you felt was extreme.

[Divine Justinia V]

How was she a sociopath in anyway shape or form..?

I second this, Kitty. When was Leliana a sociopath in Origins.. unless you're talking more specifically about her days w Marjolaine - but even then I'm a little skeptical.

[ames4u]

DA2, unfortunately, was deliberately designed to be presented in two extremes. Their reason for doing this was to force the idea that freeing mages was a bad idea-unfortunately, with the way they presented the whole debacle, it backfired.

 

I tend to play a middle of the road character who will help just about anyone if they don't set off any red flags. I adopt the mother hen approach where I would smooth over relations and try to get certain team-mates to stop fighting with each other. My mindset is, I am the one who is looking after the well-fare and well-being of my comrades or allies. To do this, I must avoid taking sides and be reasonable. No one will stop me from doing this.

 

At the end of the day, we have an overall goal in mind and bickering is acceptable unless it turns to violence, which we can simply do without. We have bigger fish to fry and while some comrades may not like or agree with the comments or views of another companion, that does not mean they need to lay into each other.

 

The problem is, Bioware removed that option and from the look's of it they have not reimplemented it. I do not want to revisit DA2's botched black and white approach to decisions. It was a real downer to find I was ineffective and couldn't deal with things the way I wanted to. With a clear headed approach that neither agreed nor disagreed with those warring factions and calmly states the accomplishments and failings of both.

[Star fury]

I disagree, especially within the context of requesting clarification.  I mean, your own statement could be framed as a question ("Do you know that answering a question with a question is not good?") so it tends to be mostly semantics.

 

So lets not go down a semantics road.

 

Person writes

 

DA2 was special in the sense that it focused mainly on one big political issue - which all the companions had to weigh in on at several points - but I honestly can't say that I think the ratio of "extreme" characters were larger in DA2 than in Origins.

 

 

If you click on him after Leandra's killed, he'll tell you that he can't believe any mage would do such a thing.

Then I ask her how many "extreme" characters were in Origins. I fail to see semantics here, trying to evade answering question, yes.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I second this, Kitty. When was Leliana a sociopath in Origins.. unless you're talking more specifically about her days w Marjolaine - but even then I'm a little skeptical.

The fact she felt bad for taking that item in her DLC shows she is not a sociopath. A sociopath wouldn't care about the people affected by their deed.

[Natashina]

How was she a sociopath in anyway shape or form..?

I can answer this I think.

 

It's because she admits that she loved the old bardic life.  That she enjoyed the thrill of the hunt and even at times, the kill.  I don't think she's a sociopath personally (far from it) but I think that's what Z meant.

[Cainhurst Crow]

In DA2 Varric, Isabela, and Aveline could be said to be moderates. Could throw in Bethany, as well! Merrill didn't exactly push her agenda around either. What was her "agenda"? Reclaim elven history? What a raving radical 

 

I think this thread is just a reaction thread against Anders and Fenris. Of course both their characters made sense (Fenris as recovering from trauma, and Anders as being the result of an Anders + Justice merging), but it probably wearied some players after awhile. 

 

I'm in favor of letting the writers write who they want to write; I've yet to be disappointed by a DA character -- although I can't say I was ever overly fond of Oghren, but, oh well. We'll pretend he didn't happen 

 

Aveline is pretty much a silent character who doesn't express her opinion on anything that isn't about the city or about isabela. Isabela just doesn't give 2 squirts about anyone, period. Kinda a charm in her about how little fucks she actually gives until the very last minute. Varric is too busy being awesome in general to act as any sort of vocal member of the party. So that leaves sebastion with the heavy pro-chantry bias, fenris with his all mages are evil spiel, anders with his everyone who isn't a mage is bad spiel, and merril, whose opinions can't manage to be consistent to save her life, bouncing between rationalized defenses for using evil magic to outrage and being appalled when mages use evil magic.

 

Trying to narrow down a middle ground would be hard, and maybe all I want is a snarky and sarcastic character who will knock down everyone elses stances while offering nothing constructive and that being it. I just feel a verbal, non-biased beating of the 5 extremes or more the game series has ended up producing would be welcome.

[Divine Justinia V]

The fact she felt bad for taking that item in her DLC shows she is not a sociopath. A sociopath wouldn't care about the people affected by their deed.

I totally forgot about that, you're right.

 

I can answer this I think.

 

It's because she admits that she loved the old bardic life.  That she enjoyed the thrill of the hunt and even at times, the kill.  I don't think she's a sociopath personally (far from it) but I think that's what Z meant.

I understand your point here, and yeah, I think sociopathic and extreme may be a bit hyperbolic to describe that.

In regards to the other part of the statement (about the Chantry) do you think she was really that extreme with her religious beliefs? I mean to a point where she could be called a "lunatic"? If that's the case, I think, then, every Revered Mother or Grand Cleric would be considered as such.

[Writ3Wing3r]

Trying to narrow down a middle ground would be hard, and maybe all I want is a snarky and sarcastic character who will knock down everyone elses stances while offering nothing constructive and that being it. I just feel a verbal, non-biased beating of the 5 extremes or more the game series has ended up producing would be welcome.

So what you want is a contrarian not a moderate?

[Master Warder Z_]

I totally forgot about that, you're right.

 

I understand your point here, and yeah, I think sociopathic and extreme may be a bit hyperbolic to describe that.

In regards to the other part of the statement (about the Chantry) do you think she was really that extreme with her religious beliefs? I mean to a point where she could be called a "lunatic"? If that's the case, I think, then, every Revered Mother or Grand Cleric would be considered as such.

 

Putting herself on par with the Prophet of her own Religion isn't something you think the Leaders of that religion would consider Lunacy? Even her own revered mother told her was sacrilege and that was being polite about it. I mean when you seek attention to yourself in that extreme a fashion i cannot help but wonder why would you do this if you were emotionally and mentally stable?

 

And Exaggeration? She lacks a sense of moral responsibility, she outright admits and that was why she gave up her life style because it forced her to that realization. She lacks the Psychosis i grant you but she has several aspects of a sociopath to her as well.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Leliana was rather hypocrite and mentally unstable than sociopathic she was talking about her methods are fine and dandy when i tried to use that she started doing problems and was angry at me and her talk about killing was moment when i had this face and wanted slowly retreat... her vision isn't normal thing either.

[Cainhurst Crow]

You could probably say that about Loghain.

 

And Alistair as extremist? Alistair? Leliana? LMAO you've got to be kidding or WUMming.

 

Maybe if you were more specific about what you meant by extreme, I could have worked with your definition over just using my own.

 

Alistar's extremism is more moral absolutism then anything else. He absolutely believes in a universal good and evil and is willing to make extreme choices based on that. It's not really prominent if you play a stereotypical good character, but start treading that grey line or darker and he'll have some very choice words for you, especially during redcliffe and the landsmeet. Understandable? Yes. Extreme? still yes.

 

Leiliana is a extremists in the same vein as alistar, only her moral absolutism is tied into what she believes is the message meant to be taken from the andrastian teachings. Again, lots of choice words if you play a grey or darker character but not to the point of alistar....until you start to do things that go against the maker's teachings.

 

Sten would rather die then live outside of what the qun asks for, and he's more then willing to fight the warden if it means doing things the way he feels they should be done. You can earn his respect at least, but he'll let you know exactly how little he thinks of you until you actually do. From thinking peasents shouldn't fight to believing that warriors not strong enough to defend their own land should be killed, he's a very devout follower, as is required to make the rank of sten.

 

Morrigan is stupid evil, no way around it. She likes it when you do evil things and say bad things to people. Hurting people is her major turn and helping people for your own goals is akin to being barney the dinosaur as far as she's concerned. And let's not kid ourselves in thinking she has anyone elses interests at mind then her own, she's as manipulative and calculating as her mother, if still inexperienced enough as to not be completely ruthless and detached from those she's using.

 

None of these characters I would describe as bad in terms of quality. I wouldn't change them or demand they be changed because I don't agree with their stance. It's actually a good thing, in my opinion, to have characters who you don't agree with on your team to give you another perspective to consider. But at the same time, I feel that while origins had characters like wynne, oghren, and zevren to an extent to act as the grounding dragon age 2 didn't. Then again there were a lot of things dragon age 2 didn't have, but that's besides the point.

 

Having a character be a badass neutral is just something I think hasn't been as touched upon as it could be. Between origins, awakening, and 2 I don't think there have been as many as there could be or should be to balance things out in a way that doesn't have them never address their comrades positions or voice an opinion on it, when so many other times, the extremes criticize them in every ambient dialogue opportunity they get.

[Cainhurst Crow]

So what you want is a contrarian not a moderate?

 

*shrugs shoulders* maybe? When you contract all sides of the extreme, where else is there to go but the middle?

[wright1978]

In DA2 Varric, Isabela, and Aveline could be said to be moderates. Could throw in Bethany, as well! Merrill didn't exactly push her agenda around either. What was her "agenda"? Reclaim elven history? What a raving radical 

 

I think this thread is just a reaction thread against Anders and Fenris. Of course both their characters made sense (Fenris as recovering from trauma, and Anders as being the result of an Anders + Justice merging), but it probably wearied some players after awhile. 

 

I'm in favor of letting the writers write who they want to write; I've yet to be disappointed by a DA character -- although I can't say I was ever overly fond of Oghren, but, oh well. We'll pretend he didn't happen 

Yep agree. Fenris and Anders represent the poles in the mage debate in DA2 but the rest of the characters are moderates in this. There's lots of these clashes between the beliefs of individual companions along the way and i personally thought the balance of varied views in the party was excellent.

 

As to the whole Leilana business. I like Leilana a lot but people seem to have selective memory, isn't she the extreme regarding Andraste. Doesn't she even throw a fit if a certain path is chosen  regarding the ashes.

[Divine Justinia V]

Putting herself on par with the Prophet of her own Religion isn't something you think the Leaders of that religion would consider Lunacy? Even her own revered mother told her was sacrilege and that was being polite about it. I mean when you seek attention to yourself in that extreme a fashion i cannot help but wonder why would you do this if you were emotionally and mentally stable?

 

And Exaggeration? She lacks a sense of moral responsibility, she outright admits and that was why she gave up her life style because it forced her to that realization. She lacks the Psychosis i grant you but she has several aspects of a sociopath to her as well.

So, it's safe to say that every Bard has sociopathic tendensies?

 

I don't think Leliana really believed she was on par with Andraste rather than trying to convince herself that she had changed.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Yep agree. Fenris and Anders represent the poles in the mage debate in DA2 but the rest of the characters are moderates in this. There's lots of these clashes between the beliefs of individual companions along the way and i personally thought the balance of varied views in the party was excellent.

 

As to the whole Leilana business. I like Leilana a lot but people seem to have selective memory, isn't she the extreme regarding Andraste. Doesn't she even throw a fit if a certain path is chosen  regarding the ashes.

I don't see how Leliana throwing a fit over you defiling Andraste's Ashes means she is extreme. I'd be just as mad too, and I'm not even a huge Chantry supporter.

[Allan Schumacher]

Having a character be a badass neutral is just something I think hasn't been as touched upon as it could be. Between origins, awakening, and 2 I don't think there have been as many as there could be or should be to balance things out in a way that doesn't have them never address their comrades positions or voice an opinion on it, when so many other times, the extremes criticize them in every ambient dialogue opportunity they get.

 

By neutral do you mean someone that is indifferent to what is going on?  Or someone that is pragmatic?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So, it's safe to say that every Bard has sociopathic tendensies?

 

I don't think Leliana really believed she was on par with Andraste rather than trying to convince herself that she had changed.

You definitely would have to develop some sort of detachment from emotions such as empathy and guilt, considering what you may have to do. 

 

She was claiming the Maker gave her a vision when the only person the Maker has ever talked to is Andraste if what I think they mean.