444 réponses à ce sujet

[BouncyFrag]

I was going to say that moderates are generally boring and without convictions making them uninteresting until Jolee Bindo showed up to make me doubt my thoughts on the matter, but then again, he could just be the exception.

[Savber100]

He does eventually pick a side though.

 

Your mistake is thinking that a moderate can't make a stand in where he believes is right.

 

Moderation does not equate apathy.

[Writ3Wing3r]

Your mistake is thinking that a moderate can't make a stand in where he believes is right.

 

Moderation does not equate apathy.

My point is that a conflict will always come to a head eventually and that moderates will have side with one extreme or the other.

[Bob from Accounting]

My point is that a conflict will always come to a head eventually and that moderates will have side with one extreme or the other.

 

That's simply not true in the slightest.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I know it's a common Bioware trope.

 

But gosh dang it I miss this guy:

 

 

 

Sarcastic, gruff, supportive but totally willing to call out bs when he sees it. Stands neither in the light or the dark. The ultimate grey Jedi.

 

The perfect moderate.

 

 

You know that he is light side in practice and in gameplay grey he chews you for going dark side path and for dark side choices....

[MassivelyEffective0730]

My point is that a conflict will always come to a head eventually and that moderates will have side with one extreme or the other.

 

Not always.

 

Ever watch Doctor Who? If you have, read up on the Last Great Time War. The people of Gallifrey (specifically, the Time Lords of Gallifrey) and the Daleks were annihilating each other across all of time and space in the universe, and both were resorting to increasingly more drastic and destructive measures. While the Time Lords technically were the ones in the right at the beginning (Read anything about the Daleks, and the first thing they'll tell you is that they are genetically engineered beings who are the most racist, genocidal, and xenophobic race in the universe incapable of feeling anything but utter hate towards any and all non-Dalek life; on an unrelated concept, they are almost exactly what I believe the Reapers should have been for motivation), the War eventually came to a point where the Time Lords own arrogance and decadence (they were seen as apathetic and abusive gods who played power and mind games and had their own incredibly arrogant sense of self-superiority over the universe, and were seen as no better than the Daleks by the final stages of the war) took hold, and the Doctor, who was more or less the only Renegade Time Lord (he was the only one with any semblance of humanity) decided that this was a no-win situation for everyone else in the universe. If the Daleks won the war, the universe would descend into a black hole of despair and genocide while the Daleks exterminated or forcibly assimilated other races to submit to them, and if the Time Lords won the war (on which they were losing and were getting desperate enough to enact this plan), the whole of reality would be destroyed, with only the Time Lords themselves surviving as beings of pure consciousness. The Doctor, arguably the most extreme moderate around decided to use the last, most powerful Time Lord Superweapon that had ever been made and destroyed both the Time Lords and the Daleks and erase them from history, for the sake of all other life in the Universe that had been caught in the crossfire. 

 

Then of course, the 50th Anniversary special has the Doctor go back in time and alter history with all of his past selves, and instead of destroying Gallifrey and committing genocide on his own species (even if it was for the absolute best of reasons), he comes up with another solution by freezing Gallifrey in a moment of time, and sealing that moment away in an empty parallel universe. The Daleks meanwhile destroy themselves in the crossfire.

 

Long example with a long explanation, but worth looking up, and it does disprove your assertion. 

[Star fury]

He does eventually pick a side though.

For all his grey morality talk Jolee somehow didn't bow to Dark Lord. Didn't like him anyway.

[Writ3Wing3r]

Long example with a long explanation, but worth looking up, and it does disprove your assertion. 

Ok I'll admit I was wrong. In a fictional universe where one person has the power to destroy both extremes completely then they don't have to pick a side.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ok I'll admit I was wrong. In a fictional universe where one person has the power to destroy both extremes completely then they don't have to pick a side.

 

Well, you still don't have to even if you don't live in the Whoniverse. And just because people have an alignment in their goals or sides they support does not mean that they choose the same reasons to fight. Everyone has a different motivation, purpose, or rationale.

 

Sherlock comes to mind. "I may be on the side of the Angels, but don't think for a second that I am one of them."

[Writ3Wing3r]

Well, you still don't have to even if you don't live in the Whoniverse. And just because people have an alignment in their goals or sides they support does not mean that they choose the same reasons to fight. Everyone has a different motivation, purpose, or rationale.

 

Sherlock comes to mind. "I may be on the side of the Angels, but don't think for a second that I am one of them."

That is kind of my point, I'm not saying a person has to conform to the extreme they side with but that they do eventually have to side with the group they veiw as being the "lesser of two evils". Otherwise you choose neutrality and let others decide your fate for you.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

That is kind of my point, I'm not saying a person has to conform to the extreme they side with but that they do eventually have to side with the group they veiw as being the "lesser of two evils". Otherwise you choose neutrality and let others decide your fate for you.

 

Still, not really true. You can become a faction of your own if possible, or you can separate yourself, or even find a third party. There isn't always a dichotomy that exists between one argument.

[Writ3Wing3r]

Still, not really true. You can become a faction of your own if possible, or you can separate yourself, or even find a third party. There isn't always a dichotomy that exists between one argument.

While technically true, there seems to me to be something about human nature where a dichotomy tends to form where one may not have existed in the beginning. When one faction gains strength the others in opposition will inevitably form a coalition to fight it.

[Rotward]

Pfft. Moderate character stays home and does laundry, and lets the crazies sort themselves out.

 

Ina ll seriousness, though, I'd like to have third options. Compromise isn't always the right answer, but it would have been nice in me3, me2, and some parts of origins. 

[Savber100]

You know that he is light side in practice and in gameplay grey he chews you for going dark side path and for dark side choices....

Why do people keep assuming moderates equate not having a firm set of personal beliefs? 

 

A moderate is man who's willing recognizes to both sides of the argument. He sees the BS within the Jedi Council while also recognizing the destructiveness of the Sith. 

 

If anything, I would even argue that pre-Sith Revan was a perfect example of an extremist and post-Sith Revan a moderate in while he became a good man, he was more than willing to tap into the dark and light side to fight for what he believed was right. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Why do people keep assuming moderates equate not having a firm set of personal beliefs? 

 

A moderate is man who's willing recognizes to both sides of the argument. He sees the BS within the Jedi Council while also recognizing the destructiveness of the Sith. 

 

If anything, I would even argue that pre-Sith Revan was a perfect example of an extremist and post-Sith Revan a moderate in while he became a good man, he was more than willing to tap into the dark and light side to fight for what he believed was right. 

 

Pity his life ended as an inane nutter eh? 

[Savber100]

Pity his life ended as an inane nutter eh? 

WE WILL NOT SPEAK OF THE  TRASH KNOWN AS THE OLD REPUBLIC MMO! 

 

*flies into a rage*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Pity his life ended as an inane nutter eh? 

 

 

WE WILL NOT SPEAK OF THE  TRASH KNOWN AS THE OLD REPUBLIC MMO! 

 

*flies into a rage*

Why so mad. It was obvious that the Revan in SWTOR was only a faulty clone since that was the only way to harness even a fraction of Revan's power. #FanonForLife

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Kreia is neutral...she don't like you going extremely light or dark, she hate both extreme and want to destroy the Force

 

err...that makes her an extremist too

She is extreme in her moderation.

[Master Warder Z_]

WE WILL NOT SPEAK OF THE  TRASH KNOWN AS THE OLD REPUBLIC MMO! 

 

*flies into a rage*

 

For the Empire!

 

 

I actually enjoy the game a fair bit.

[Savber100]

Why so mad. It was obvious that the Revan in SWTOR was only a faulty clone since that was the only way to harness even a fraction of Revan's power. #FanonForLife

 

What's amazing is that the TOR writers somehow left Revan in a worse place than he started...

 

Unless they've updated his fate after being taken down by a bunch lvl 60 MMO players as some retarded quest boss. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Why so mad. It was obvious that the Revan in SWTOR was only a faulty clone since that was the only way to harness even a fraction of Revan's power. #FanonForLife

 

Except that Sparti Cloning wasn't developed for another thousand years and Kamino wasn't discovered until a bit later on...In short? There is only one realistic conclusion.

 

That was the actual Revan.

 

Bout time he died too.

[Master Warder Z_]

What's amazing is that the TOR writers somehow left Revan in a worse place than he started...

 

Unless they've updated his fate after being taken down by a bunch lvl 60 MMO players as some retarded quest boss. 

 

Actually the quest level is 38 or so...I solo'ed it at 50.

[Allan Schumacher]

Just as a reminder to try to keep it within context of Dragon Age, since I find a topic like this can derail and escalate quickly as a result.

[CybAnt1]

To quote Jim Hightower:

 

 

Take a stand sometimes, people, despite your opposition. It feels good.