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The moral choice is almost always the most efficacious for the major choices, for reasons I mentioned earlier. Even without metaknowledge.
Truly?
Even in the selection of say acquiring Dalish Archers over Werewolves? Both are capable combatants, Both will follow the Warden if their desires are met.
Whom is to say which is more effective then the other?
But how can you determine such with out metaknowledge?
You cannot, You have a field commanders view for the fifth Blight.
Is morality a luxury you can afford?
The exact same way we determine it in real life. With reason.
Truly?
Even in the selection of say acquiring Dalish Archers over Werewolves? Both are capable combatants, Both will follow the Warden if their desires are met.
Whom is to say which is more effective then the other?
Dalish have a strong cultural specialization towards archery, filling a niche that neither humans nor dwarves have as much expertise in.
Extremism is not allow self to tolerate. Become intolerable, conservative, dogmatic, indoctrinated.....
For example...vegetarians, they don't want to eat meat at all...that's extremism.
Don't want to get married, that's extremism.
While moderates are the one who can tolerate, can talk, can consider things, can find solution for matters...liberal and open minded, dynamic and progressive...while maintaining philosophy or belief
Being moderate doesn't mean don't have any principle at all
Vegetarians are extremists? Seriously? Not, oh I don't know, vegans?
Not wanting to get married is extremism? How does that even relate to tolerance?
Am I feeding a troll?
Vegetarians are extremists? Seriously? Not, oh I don't know, vegans?
Not wanting to get married is extremism? How does that even relate to tolerance?
Am I feeding a troll?
Yes.
Dalish have a strong cultural specialization towards archery, filling a niche that neither humans nor dwarves have as much expertise in.
And Werewolves are mythical horrors that are of tremendous strength and durability easily outclassing Humans, Elves and Dwarves in combat roles that require both.
Dalish have a strong cultural specialization towards archery, filling a niche that neither humans nor dwarves have as much expertise in.
I could see their archery coming into play as an asset (as well as their lack of a curse), with mages, dwarven soldiers (including the Legion of the Dead), Golems, and Redcliffe mercenaries already assembled.
And Werewolves are mythical horrors that are of tremendous strength and durability easily outclassing Humans, Elves and Dwarves in combat roles that require both.
Great, they'll be right at home with the darkspawn. They also have an inherent lust for violence, a propensity for spreading their curse, probable deleterious effects on morale for both of those, and you need smarts more than raw strength to fight the darkspawn, who'll outstrength you every time due to overwhelming numbers, poisoned blood, and ogres. Hell, shrieks are fairly comparable to werewolves, so far as I can tell, but the darkspawn don't have any really outstanding archers.
Great, they'll be right at home with the darkspawn. They also have an inherent lust for violence, a propensity for spreading their curse, probable deleterious effects on morale for both of those, and you need smarts more than raw strength to fight the darkspawn, who'll outstrength you every time due to overwhelming numbers, poisoned blood, and ogres. Hell, shrieks are fairly comparable to werewolves, so far as I can tell, but the darkspawn don't have any really outstanding archers.
Lust for violence is useful if you can direct at enemies, which you can with werewolves, And the men can get over it like they do in game if they issues with the Werewolves. Given both parties can give each other a wide berth both on the move and on the battlefield. Furthermore you are leaving out that these werewolves are a directed enity and the spirit guiding them is neither overwhelmed with blood lust nor their curse and thus can aid them in overcoming both, as she does IN game.
Directly leading me to my next point.
Yet they don't act on that tendency either in game or out game directly upon your forces, even when it occurs its after the conflict and therefore beyond the spectrum of this debate.
And raw strength, animal brutality and inhuman durability come in handy when combating poisoned blood and overwhelming numbers, and you can agrue Darkspawn makeup for being mediocre at bow craft with the sheer volume they can fire.
Face it Xil there is an argument for taking the werewolves over the Dalish.
Lust for violence is useful if you can direct at enemies, which you can with werewolves, And the men can get over it like they do in game if they issues with the Werewolves. Given both parties can give each other a wide berth both on the move and on the battlefield. Furthermore you are leaving out that these werewolves are a directed enity and the spirit guiding them is neither overwhelmed with blood lust nor their curse and thus can aid them in overcoming both, as she does IN game.
Directly leading me to my next point.
Yet they don't act on that tendency either in game or out game directly upon your forces, even when it occurs its after the conflict and therefore beyond the spectrum of this debate.
And raw strength, animal brutality and inhuman durability come in handy when combating poisoned blood and overwhelming numbers, and you can agrue Darkspawn makeup for being mediocre at bow craft with the sheer volume they can fire.
Face it Xil there is an argument for taking the werewolves over the Dalish.
You do realize that you're using metaknowledge yourself here, yes? Quite a lot of it, most egregiously with "the men will get over it." I also don't think we've ever seen darkspawn use mass arrow volleys.
There's an argument for using the werewolves, yes. It's also poorly thought out, overly destructive, and ultimately wrong.
Eh, werewolves seem like they can come in handy, but overall I see no really good reason to abandon and destroy a group with which the Wardens have a treaty other than to replace them with cursed dog-men.
You do realize that you're using metaknowledge yourself here, yes? Quite a lot of it, most egregiously with "the men will get over it." I also don't think we've ever seen darkspawn use mass arrow volleys.
There's an argument for using the werewolves, yes. It's also poorly thought out, overly destructive, and ultimately wrong.
Metaknowledge in the instance of this debate certainty.
I will point out when lore or in game events support my argument, in game? different perspective not my own.
Why? Because it's supporting a different faction then the one you favor? Using Fire to fight fire and wrong to whom or what? Morality? The Dalish?
Eh, werewolves seem like they can come in handy, but overall I see no really good reason to abandon and destroy a group with which the Wardens have a treaty other than to replace them with cursed dog-men.
The fact they require the Warden to go out of their way to allow the honoring of their commitment really doesn't do their treaty much favor.
I mean as signs of their ineptness or what have you.
What exactly do the werewolves bring to the table that the other treaty factions do not?
What exactly do the werewolves bring to the table that the other treaty factions do not?
A Means of self replicating numbers the Dalish cannot match for one?
If the need arises you can simply let them loose on a nearby township to replenish numbers.
Physical capabilities for another as i have mentioned several times.
A Means of self replicating numbers the Dalish cannot match for one?
If the need arises you can simply let them loose on a nearby township to replenish numbers.
Physical capabilities for another as i have mentioned several times.
That seems like it could easily backfire.
Letting them loose on a nearby township? Counterproductive towards anything but replenishing numbers you may or may not be able to control.
You're really rolling the dice here when you already have a sure thing in the elves.
I'm loath to use the word "evil" on this forum because of how shaky its meaning can be around here, but that really does establish this as the "evil" choice, especially when it comes down to trying to exploit lycanthropy. What could possibly go wrong when it comes down to attacking towns to replenish your army of walking pestilences?
It is great fun when the player has the option of playing multiple groups against each other. This is not so much moderation as the ultimate in pragmatism, if it is done to destroy multiple enemies and increase one's own power. But a similar choice could exist to play the groups into a stalemate for the sake of order and an uneasy peace (that may crumble later).
Admittedly it can't be done very often in a game because of the complexity, the large number of permutations it generates for the devs. And sometimes life really does force a person into choosing one of only two bad options, like DA2, or perhaps Bhelen vs Harrimont (which I enjoyed very much).
But having the occasional realpolitik arc is priceless.
That seems like it could easily backfire.
Letting them loose on a nearby township? Counterproductive towards anything but replenishing numbers you may or may not be able to control.
You're really rolling the dice here when you already have a sure thing in the elves.
Luckily the Warden has an intermediary to make sure it doesn't get to far out of hand, not mention given in game events in the aftermath of the slaughter of the Dalish clan; Werewolves appear compliment enough to leave survivors that have been given their curse. If they don't survive the transformation then that is an actual issue, but no more then the possiblity of losing the aid the Dalish give.
And sure fire why? Because the Dalish follow with out the need to do so if their numbers get to low? Finite number of them, Loyality to the cause is one thing, living to see the cause completed is another. A handful of Dalish clans does provide a boon to the Army certainly but that said if you lose them, that's it there can be no more given unless if you bother to go out and recruit more.
There are downsides with either option i grant you but the werewolves offer in my opinion a safer gambit to bet on as long as the Lady of the Forest continues its existence and continues to mitigate the effects of the curse to the extent required of an army.
Luckily the Warden has an intermediary to make sure it doesn't get to far out of hand, not mention given in game events in the aftermath of the slaughter of the Dalish clan; Werewolves appear compliment enough to leave survivors that have been given their curse. If they don't survive the transformation then that is an actual issue, but no more then the possiblity of losing the aid the Dalish give.
And sure fire why? Because the Dalish follow with out the need to do so if their numbers get to low? Finite number of them, Loyality to the cause is one thing, living to see the cause completed is another. A handful of Dalish clans does provide a boon to the Army certainly but that said if you lose them, that's it there can be no more given unless if you bother to go out and recruit more.
There are downsides with either option i grant you but the werewolves offer in my opinion a safer gambit to bet on as long as the Lady of the Forest continues its existence and continues to mitigate the effects of the curse to the extent required of an army.
Alright, but what of the 'new recruits' so to speak? Why would they fight alongside the very beings that inflicted the curse upon them? As far as I can tell the Spirit or Lady of the forest holds influence but doesn't necessarily mind control the beasts. Not to mention exceptions like Danyla. You're risking in-fighting in your force. You can argue that the Darkspawn are the greater threat. But I somehow doubt that these new werewolves will see it that way.
Just seems too unstable an element to tangle with. Good pay off if it works, disaster if it does not. With the elves at least you won't have to worry about the gambit backfiring.
Alright, but what of the 'new recruits' so to speak? Why would they fight alongside the very beings that inflicted the curse upon them? As far as I can tell the Spirit or Lady of the forest holds influence but doesn't necessarily mind control the beasts. Not to mention exceptions like Danyla. You're risking in-fighting in your force. You can argue that the Darkspawn are the greater threat. But I somehow doubt that these new werewolves will see it that way.
Just seems too unstable an element to tangle with. Good pay off if it works, disaster if it does not. With the elves at least you won't have to worry about the gambit backfiring.
Granted you are taking a risk with any second generation recruits given the loyalty the Warden receives comes from destroying the first generations enemies. And Yes it might possibly cause issue if it did in fact turn out that way, But if you go past the bestial rage that consumes the werewolves most appear to have basic to moderate cognition, if their rage was calmed and the situation explained to them, why the need for them existed. Why they were given these new forms, I don't know its a gambit but so was taking on a finite number of Dalish and expecting it to be enough with no available means to get more if those fall.
As you said its a gambit with downfalls and payoffs and perhaps its a matter of perspective of which gambit is superior but i am of a mind that when you unite people under a singular cause, if you explain the reasoning of said cause then they will see it done if it is a pressing enough need.
So Varric is chopped Nug liver, he didn't really give two craps about any of the conflicts only his friends.
Hence why Varric is DA2's unsung hero.
Human naturally can eat everything, but you deny meat totally, that's extreme. You may not like eating meat, that is fine, but making meat eater as enemy, that is extremism
Human naturally get married and having a family, you deny the nature of being human, that's extreme. You may not have luck to find a life partner, that is fine. But rejecting it as a whole is extremism.
Not all vegetarians go and call people who eat meat murderers, you know?
And you don't have to marry to produce offspring.
Furthermore you are leaving out that these werewolves are a directed enity and the spirit guiding them is neither overwhelmed with blood lust nor their curse and thus can aid them in overcoming both, as she does IN game.
I hated how the only way to cure the Werewolves was for The Lady of the Forest to sacrifice herself. She seemed a fascinating individual.
I hated how the only way to cure the Werewolves was for The Lady of the Forest to sacrifice herself. She seemed a fascinating individual.
I wouldn't worry too much. If I recall correctly, she was tired of having a physical form, and needed rest.
I wouldn't worry too much. If I recall correctly, she was tired of having a physical form, and needed rest.
I know, and she definitely deserves it after keeping the werewolves in check for centuries.
I wonder if we'll see more of her kind in Inquisition, like one in the Dales?
I know, and she definitely deserves it after keeping the werewolves in check for centuries.
I wonder if we'll see more of her kind in Inquisition, like one in the Dales?
Considering that (assuming I remember things correctly, its been so long) she was a / the forest spirit given form because of an angry blood mage, I certainly hope not.
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