Now you are being wilfully unfair in your comparison.
No i am just pointing out that the Tau were thrust into a situation much more complex then the Qunari were in DA and managed to hold their own against all comers basically.
The Qunari had a relatively easy ride, not minding the occasional two centuries of constant warfare.
No i am just pointing out that the Tau were thrust into a situation much more complex then the Qunari were in DA and managed to hold their own against all comers basically.
The Qunari had a relatively easy ride, not minding the occasional two centuries of constant warfare.
I guess both Qunari and Tau are way overpowered and basically are writers' pets to be interesting and balanced. Another similarity by the way! 
I guess both Qunari and Tau are way overpowered and basically are writers' pets to be interesting and balanced. Another similarity by the way!
Have you looked at WH recently?
Ward only has a single pet and it isn't the Tau.
It could be possible that the DA team overpowers the Qunari although i'd argue having martial and technology superiority isn't nessarily any favoritism given it didn't help them much in their conquest of Thedas (I have explained several times how in the end they were losing the war due to Thedas just being able to dump numbers on them)
Have you looked at WH recently?
Ward only has a single pet and it isn't the Tau.
It could be possible that the DA team overpowers the Qunari although i'd argue having martial and technology superiority isn't nessarily any favoritism given it didn't help them much in their conquest of Thedas (I have explained several times how in the end they were losing the war due to Thedas just being able to dump numbers on them)
Qunari didn't lost a war, they just retreated when Andrastian kingdoms began to slaughter Rivaini converts and employed scorched earth tactic failing to beat Qunari.
Tau also were victorious in every major conflict they participated. Be it Imperium crusade. war with Chaos or Hive fleet invasion.
Qunari didn't lost a war, they just retreated when Andrastian kingdoms began to slaughter Rivaini converts and employed scorched earth tactic failing to beat Qunari.
Tau also were victorious in every major conflict they participated. Be it Imperium crusade. war with Chaos or Hive fleet invasion.
<_,< Yeah...
See i have combated that line of thought a LOT, we can dicuss it more in a PM if you like but i don't want to derail your thread here with my musings on how horribly they were losing by the end of that war and them suing for peace was more of a fact their position in Thedas was being overrun and the reasoning for Thedas not doing a major invasion of Qunari lands was due to the fact they were economically devastated by that point.
And Yeah the Tau are neat I enjoyed table top roleplaying them immensely.
Railguns and Mech's just tend to be awesome in WH anyway.
<_,< Yeah...
See i have combated that line of thought a LOT, we can dicuss it more in a PM if you like but i don't want to derail your thread here with my musings on how horribly they were losing by the end of that war and them suing for peace was more of a fact their position in Thedas was being overrun and the reasoning for Thedas not doing a major invasion of Qunari lands was due to the fact they were economically devastated by that point.
Nice fanon.
50 years. That's how long it took the Imperium to drive out the Qunari occupation. But the rest of Northern Thedas was not so lucky.
Both Divines, white and black, declared Exalted Marches and for the only time since the Schism of the Chantry, they worked together. A century-long siege resulted, with the giant Qunari entrenched in Antiva and Rivain, and all of Thedas throwing armies against them.
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
The treaty that put an official end to the Qunari Wars was signed on the politically neutral island of Llomerryn off the southern coast of Rivain. 150 years after the assault on the mainland began, the Qunari left our shores. They received the northern archipelago in exchange for cessation of hostilities against all the nations on the accord.
© Codex.
Nice fanon.
50 years. That's how long it took the Imperium to drive out the Qunari occupation. But the rest of Northern Thedas was not so lucky.
Both Divines, white and black, declared Exalted Marches and for the only time since the Schism of the Chantry, they worked together. A century-long siege resulted, with the giant Qunari entrenched in Antiva and Rivain, and all of Thedas throwing armies against them.
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
The treaty that put an official end to the Qunari Wars was signed on the politically neutral island of Llomerryn off the southern coast of Rivain. 150 years after the assault on the mainland began, the Qunari left our shores. They received the northern archipelago in exchange for cessation of hostilities against all the nations on the accord.
© Codex.
Well i guess this is permission for the derailing of the Thread, don't blame me for when this has gone for three straight pages though.
Series of events for the Qunari War.
The Initial Attack 6:30 Steel of Imperium Controlled Par Vollen was rapidly taken.
By 6:32 Steel the Qunari were invading the Borderlands of Ravain and Sehron.
6:34 the Invasion of Antiva, The Imperium and Ravain began proper at this time as well, Great gains were made during this period.
At the same time they opened a front in the free marches , During the next ten year period much of the Imperium was conquered at great loss to both sides and only the capital of Minrathous remained unconquered but besieged.
By 6:85 Steel the Human kingdoms finally rallied together and began an organized offensive against the Qunari, At the same time mass rebellion began in Qunari occupied Tveinter.
The war continued into the next Century and thus under mass human counterattack the Qunari were expelled from much of their captured territory and pushed back to Sehron and Ravain by 7:23 Storm, This was the first turning point of the war.
7:55 the formation of the Pirate Armada that later saw a massive Qunari fleet defeated in 7:78 Storm, And even began minor invasions of the Qunari Homeland it self. And the recapturing of Estwatch a critical island of strategic importance to both sides.
7:56? Storm The Joining of the Black and White Divines, The Imperium now mostly liberated from Qunari Hands, Joined in hand with the Chantry of Thedas and declared the new exalted march upon them to retake Rivain, and Seheron and Qarinus in Tevinter.
Actually they went out of their way to make the Tau waaaay more sinister a few editions ago, implying their entire society was only created through mild mind control through pheromones.
Actually they went out of their way to make the Tau waaaay more sinister a few editions ago, implying their entire society was only created through mild mind control through pheromones.
Yeah that wasn't needed <_<''
It wasn't grimdark enough otherwise. ~_^
Something like that. The Tau were kind of "the good guys" previously, since they did not abhor technological advancement, had total equality in their society (despite being caste based) and were not xenophobic in the slightest. Now they are basically like the Protheans.
The only apparent inspirations are the Fade and Demons, it's pretty much the same with the Warp equivalent of 40K.
This also leads me to think if the Maker, or any God that resides in the Fade are there just because the people want them to be there. Like the Fade, Warp is a place where the emotions, desires, beliefs of inviduals and massess are manifested in a life form. The "Orkz" of 40K actually managed to create two powerful gods without knowing it.
If Bioware takes that route, there could very well be a baby god(Maker?) growing in the Fade, due to the thousands whishing him into existence every single day, every hour and every minute for centuries.
The Fade and the Warp works very differently from eachother. Entities are not formed in the Fade from the dreams of mortals, like they are in the Warp.
The only apparent inspirations are the Fade and Demons, it's pretty much the same with the Warp equivalent of 40K.
This also leads me to think if the Maker, or any God that resides in the Fade are there just because the people want them to be there. Like the Fade, Warp is a place where the emotions, desires, beliefs of inviduals and massess are manifested in a life form. The "Orkz" of 40K actually managed to create two powerful gods without knowing it.
If Bioware takes that route, there could very well be a baby god(Maker?) growing in the Fade, due to the thousands whishing him into existence every single day, every hour and every minute for centuries.
Not only that, human mages and human psykers are very similar too - possession, mage and psyker predicament etc, implied weak will and inherent susceptibilty to demons of human mages/psykers compared to other races.
<_,< Yeah...
See i have combated that line of thought a LOT, we can dicuss it more in a PM if you like but i don't want to derail your thread here with my musings on how horribly they were losing by the end of that war and them suing for peace was more of a fact their position in Thedas was being overrun and the reasoning for Thedas not doing a major invasion of Qunari lands was due to the fact they were economically devastated by that point.
Ultimately i look at the series of events and see what i perceive as a failing offensive in the Thedosian Mainland and being struck by Raiders to pillage shipping lanes and even begin minor invasions of the Qunari Heartland just combined with the sheer losses inflicted from the war by this coupled together to force the Qunari to the bargaining table.Its debatable certainly, but non fanon.
I think you should choose between your two points of views first, then we can continue a discussion. Even your second point of view directly contradicts with the Codex.
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
I guess both Qunari and Tau are way overpowered and basically are writers' pets to be interesting and balanced. Another similarity by the way!
Well now, mayhaps you be forgetting that the only reason that the Tau are still around is because tyranids hive fleets caused the crusade fleet to turn around.
The Crusade fleet liberated every world the tau have taken and were beating the smurfs senseless (lead by the Black Templars no less).
In other words, the Imperium is too busy fighting REAL threats to deal with the tau.
Well now, mayhaps you be forgetting that the only reason that the Tau are still around is because tyranids hive fleets caused the crusade fleet to turn around.
The Crusade fleet liberated every world the tau have taken and were beating the smurfs senseless (lead by the Black Templars no less).
In other words, the Imperium is too busy fighting REAL threats to deal with the tau.
Tau already stopped Damocles crusade even before hive fleet Behemoth attacked Imperium. Humans were not beating the smurfs senseless, in fact Imperial Guard and the Black Templars also sustained heavy casualties with no significant gains. Imperium suffered more losses than Tau.
Should we discuss Qunari and W40k in another thread?
Feels like you're stretching a bit to me.
It also feels like - and bear with me here - both are full of common fantasy, high fantasy, and sci-fi themes and tropes. Which they are. I love the dragon age series and the world it spans has some great unique qualities but if it DIDN'T have all the Tolkien-eque inspirations of all other high fantasy series then it wouldn't be high fantasy.
Races, Magic, The logic behind magic, classes...all of this is fairly common fodder here. To say that Dragon age plagiarises this is akin to saying that every book featuring a dragon is plagiarizing The Hobbit or that every book or game featuring a "Ranger" class is plagiarizing The Lord of the Rings series.
The Warhammer 40K / Dragon Age comparison has been made before, and owes I think more to the relative popularity of 40K and shared influences than actual evidence of ‘direct inspiration’ from 40K to DA.
Warhammer 40K (1987-) itself is actually the SF offshoot of Warhammer Fantasy Battles (1983) / Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (1986). It evolved a bit since then, becoming slightly more SF-y and more of its ‘own thing’, but it’s still basically a fantasy wargame in space. Similarities between DA and 40K are the result of 40K’s origins in Warhammer fantasy. Both DA and Warhammer fantasy took a lot from the ‘generic’ mainstream fantasy ‘toolbox’ of concepts, ideas, plot devices, races, visual elements etc.
That doesn’t mean that DA did not directly borrow from other fantasy books / games / settings, rather than just grab from the shared ‘generic mainstream fantasy toolbox’.
The Grey Wardens and the use of the word ‘ser’ is ASoIaF. I also suspect that the substantial role of politics, warfare, intrigue and treachery in DA, although ‘universal’ by itself, is ASoIaF, in the sense that these are very prominent in Martin’s work and proved to be popular and commercially successful. In the main, these elements have always been relatively weak (or even absent) in fantasy, and traditionally more the domain of historical fiction and political thrillers. I also base this on a not-so-subtle feeling that whereas Martin based himself in this respect on historical reality (mainly British medieval history), DA to a large extent seems to try to imitate Martin here, but without Martin’s knowledge and understanding of medieval (Anglo-Scottish) politics, society and mentality.
Other direct influences are from LotR, particularly in the area of visuals in the first game (Tevinter ruins at Ostagar, Orzammar’s dwarven architecture).
As for institutions and metaphysics, Thedas seems to resemble the setting of Ars Magica more than it does that of Fantasy Warhammer. This may be direct borrowing (David Gaider apparently played quite a bit of Ars Magica, at least according to a 2000 interview), or it could be the result of individual / collective preferences among the devs leading to the selection of similar elements.
Dominant monotheistic faith? Check. A magic realm very similar to the Fade, inhabited by Spirits? Check. Demonic influences and possession a big thing, with special interest in Mages? Check. Mages organised in an order and living in ‘gated’ communities apart from the rest of society? Check. Magic users outside the order persecuted and in principle forced into the Order or hunted down and killed? Check. A potentially deadly test before achieving the status of full Magus? Check.
There are also differences of course; in Ars Magica the magic / spirit realm is separate from the Infernal realm, the source of demons (Spirits and Demons in Ars Magica are very different entities). Ars Magica’s setting is medieval Europe, plus all the magic, mythological creatures and races and demons known to its people, plus some extra. Thedas, on the other hand, uses a distorted and simplified form of Europe’s map (upside down) and some historical nations as a very rough outline that is mostly filled up with more conventional generic mainstream fantasy stuff (inverted or not).
If there is any ‘structural’ similarity between (Fantasy) Warhammer and DA, I think it lies here: Both use a simplified and ‘flattened’* version of medieval Europe (and environs) as a (more or less loose) framework. Warhammer Fantasy clings in some ways closer to history. Arms, armour and architecture of the human nations are firmly historically-based and there is reasonable close similarity between these nations and their historical inspirations.
DA is more D&D-ish fantasy when it comes to the visuals (with some fading LotR influences) and the similarity between the human nations and their real-life inspirations is much weaker, to the point that, in some ways, they are more exaggerated and barely recognisable caricatures.
However, this similarity stems from both taking the most basic approach to pseudo-medieval worldbuilding, copying medieval Europe’s basic template. It’s not, I think, a case of direct influence from one setting to another, not in the way DA took things from ASoIaF and LotR (and maybe Ars Magica).
* By flattened I mean that the cultural, religious, political, social, economical and political complexity of medieval Europe and environs (western Eurasia and northern Africa) is extremely, and I mean really extremely, simplified. This also goes for the ‘deeper’ history, with the DA and WHF setting having a history that is composed of very few layers and elements compared to the real-world inspiration.
Pretty obvious Fade is inspired by Warp
The Fade and the Warp works completely differnet from eachother. The ONLY simily between the two is that it is a domain of demons and spirits which have some sort of conenction to emotions. However, the Warp entities are directly created by the emotions, while the Fade entities attach to these emotions but existed before.
I think you should choose between your two points of views first, then we can continue a discussion. Even your second point of view directly contradicts with the Codex.
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
It contradicts it because the WOT lore of the Qunari Wars goes into more detail then the codex's presented in game, and given what WOT is? I'd take its pov over what was written in a codex that may or may not be accurate if considered against it. Aka its god canon vs a codex that may be retcon applicable.
And WOT and other codex's paint a picture that it was much more then merely "their religion" making them withdraw, it was them losing ground in the few strong points in the Thedosian mainland it self and their own homeland coming under attack, their shipping and logistical lines suffering from raids and the tightening noose around them.
Like i said i acknowledge Thedas was going bankrupt because of this fight, it was a primary factor in why they agreed to a ceasefire, along with the mere fact that most of the battlegrounds were rubble and needed to be rebuilt.
Point is, WOT paints a much more detailed picture then what was initially suspected, it wasn't a Demand of the Qun that saw the giants cease their incursion, it was the matter of them losing by this point.
Like i said merely my take on it but its all backed up by the lore.
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
It's important to note when using this quote that "the Qunari occupying force" is specifically referring to the occupying force in the Kont-aar. The armies they sent further south certainly received more than just a good chipping, and this is confirmed in the codex.
Looking only at similarities while ignoring differences can make a banana look like a person. Just saying.
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
It's important to note when using this quote that "the Qunari occupying force" is specifically referring to the occupying force in the Kont-aar. The armies they sent further south certainly received more than just a good chipping, and this is confirmed in the codex.
Or Further North Considering as i pointed out earlier that by the point of the ceasefire the Imperium had all but been retaken by Tveinter.
Mainly due to a combinations of bloody battles and mass slave revolts according to WOT.
It contradicts it because the WOT lore of the Qunari Wars goes into more detail then the codex's presented in game, and given what WOT is? I'd take its pov over what was written in a codex that may or may not be accurate if considered against it. Aka its god canon vs a codex that may be retcon applicable.
And WOT and other codex's paint a picture that it was much more then merely "their religion" making them withdraw, it was them losing ground in the few strong points in the Thedosian mainland it self and their own homeland coming under attack, their shipping and logistical lines suffering from raids and the tightening noose around them.
Like i said i acknowledge Thedas was going bankrupt because of this fight, it was a primary factor in why they agreed to a ceasefire, along with the mere fact that most of the battlegrounds were rubble and needed to be rebuilt.
Point is, WOT paints a much more detailed picture then what was initially suspected, it wasn't a Demand of the Qun that saw the giants cease their incursion, it was the matter of them losing by this point.
Like i said merely my take on it but its all backed up by the lore.
Okay, give me a quote from WOT. And WOT can't be retconned because?
The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.
It's important to note when using this quote that "the Qunari occupying force" is specifically referring to the occupying force in the Kont-aar. The armies they sent further south certainly received more than just a good chipping, and this is confirmed in the codex.
And you know that exactly from what?
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