Calm down, Qistina.
I'm not in any position to say one Martial Art is more effective than the other, and I wouldn't want to be either. I disagree with your opinion of Muay Thai, but that's fine.
I love Mixed Martial Arts and the UFC. I don't blindly defend one Martial Art, I'm very open minded.
UFC 173 is going to be very interesting if style vs. style is your kind of thing. It's Lyoto Machida vs. Chris Weidman in the main event.
Machida is a +165 underdog and Weidman a -190 favourite.
For those unaware, both fighters are mix martial artist, with Machida's main style Karate (which he has trained in since he was four years old, by the master and father Shinzo Machida) and some Sumo elements too. He's a former UFC light heavyweight champion and is now the challenger for the UFC middleweight championship.
Chris Weidman roots lies primarily in wrestling, though his submission grappeling has evolved to the point that he's a real threat to anyone on the ground and he was able to hold his own against Damian Maia (A Brazilian Jiu Jitsu world champion). His striking has also improved, though no where near as technical as Machida's. He will be the defending middleweight champion.
Pictures.
Machida.
Weidman.
*bluffs* I'm the inventor of Karachi (Karate + Tai Chi)!
you two should fight with me 2 vs 1 and still your asses will be kicked!
UFC 173 is going to be very interesting if style vs. style is your kind of thing. It's Lyoto Machida vs. Chris Weidman in the main event.
I'm really looking forward to Hendricks vs Lawler. After watching Hendtricks vs GSP 3 times I think that Hendricks won 1,2 and 4; and should rightfully be the current champion. MacDonald seemed to have Lawler in a lot of trouble on the ground during their fight, maybe Hendricks will look to exploit that. Naturally, I'd rather see a slugfest 
.
I watched Kim vs Hathaway today - awesome fight. The Fight Night Card next week looks really promising as well.
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*
I know Taekwondo, jiu jitsu, and eight other dangerous words.
I do Tae Bo
hehe
pics/vid or it didn't happen
Guest_Dobbysaurus_*
pics/vid or it didn't happen
I'm going to do some later on tonight. I'll record a video then.
I'm going to do some later on tonight. I'll record a video then.
Interesting...
In my country, there are underground rings where every martial artist fight freely, no rule...most Muay Thai practitioners got beaten.
One thing about Muay Thai practitioners is they are always arrogant. I don't doubt that May Thai system is a good system, but Muay Thai practitioners here are mostly jerks
Muay Thai rely on their physical strength, to resist pain...they trained to ignore pain to the extreme...some of them don't even have nose bone anymore because of everyday they train themselves to get hit at their nose.
But i ask you...how long that last? How long you can stand it and how long you can rely on your physical strength? We eventually getting older...some even got disease, getting sick, and any condition...
Once you become weak, you are useless in Muay Thai system...
Right, and I take a westener called Frank Dux dropped by and conquered the underground rings?
Once you become weak you are useless in a fight period. That's why professional fighters typically think about retiring when they're in their 30s or 40s.
Well i don't get too detailed into my personal life but back in probably 91 i was just starting well...The American Equivalent is high school i guess and my uncle sat me down and told me i'd need some form of self defense given the makeup of the student body (man wasn't wrong) Anyway given he was a retired servicemen he taught me a bit of LDS (Line defensive system or LINE combat system) which he picked up when he was doing joint training exercises back in the late 80s with the United States.
Man wasn't bad as an instructor and given he was proficient with it himself he got me to be well alright enough with it that the lessons stopped. Years later when i joined the Service myself in the United States i was taught MAC by the army; Ultimately got to be pretty good with it. graded skill level three by retirement in late 2009. Just for you all not intimately versed with the American's armed forces MAC system there are only usually three or so people good enough in said system to qualify for rank three in a battalion. In laymen's terms that basically means. I was one of three people that were good enough to qualify for that ranking out of a thousand.
Anyway the reason i believe i excel at both styles are they require physical strength, build and height given they are both reactive and active grappling and submission based styles. There are a handful of strikes involved in both arsenals but primarily its a mixture of holds, chokes and pulls that can just take an opponent apart, if you apply actual strength to it. it can do so even more proficiently. I can say that i have won tournment based sparring matches, full contact matches and light and heavy sparring matches using either LDS or MAC respectively.
About the only real counter to it is another reactive fighting style such as Judo or Krav Maga; with either of those it becomes a match of reflexes and speed.
About the only real counter to it is another reactive fighting style such as Judo or Krav Maga; with either of those it becomes a match of reflexes and speed.
Interesting post, thanks.
You really don't think a good jiu jitsu player or even a high level wrestler could nullify that style? What about a striker who uses grappling skills defensively in order to keep a fight on the feet?
That is the problem of Muay Thai...you always seek to compete. Like i mention, how long you can stand it?
Here, there is what we called "minyak tomoi", it made of herbs and some insects. Muay Thai practicioners everyday will hit trees, rolling an iron rod to their legs, allow themselves to get beaten, after they doing those horrors they coat themselves with "minyak tomoi"....this oil will change their physique, and remove the pain...
Is that human?
I've already told you that I don't align myself with one particular style.
And that sounds like misplaced dedication to me. Some of the guys I train with use "Thai Oil" on their legs. They don't kick anything other then flesh, bone and leather, however.
Interesting post, thanks.
You really don't think a good jiu jitsu player or even a high level wrestler could nullify that style? What about a striker who uses grappling skills defensively in order to keep a fight on the feet?
Well see now we are arguing experience and leveling system over the base strengths of the style.
There are no doubt Wrestlers and users of Jiu Jitsu that could defeat LDS or MAC, But i can point out why LDS would have an easy time overcoming Basic Greco Roman style wrestling or Puroresu or even MMA. LDS involves high pressure nerve chokes and a handful of strikes that can even cause fatality, hence why nerve strikes, And most of the chokes that are comprised of in the style are illegal in tournaments. It's hard to beat lethal submissions is my point in sheer terms of alacrity of ending matches.
Those schools just lack the means to combat their military grade counterparts is all.
This maybe look like funny and maybe look like amateur, yes they are amateur, and it's friendly competition...but what actually happen is, the guy with black pant counter every Muay Thai moves by standing straight...
He isn't countering anything. He's dominating the boy in the Thai shorts. Barely any Muay Thai techniques demonstrated, both of them are swinging wildly.
Well see now we are arguing experience and leveling system over the base strengths of the style.
There are no doubt Wrestlers and users of Jiu Jitsu that could defeat LDS or MAC, But i can point out why LDS would have an easy time overcoming Basic Greco Roman style wrestling or Puroresu or even MMA. LDS involves high pressure nerve chokes and a handful of strikes that can even cause fatality, hence why nerve strikes, And most of the chokes that are comprised of in the style are illegal in tournaments. It's hard to beat lethal submissions is my point in sheer terms of alacrity of ending matches.
So theoretically the moves are effective? Surely you would have to be an incredibly accurate striker in order to land a potentially fatal shot? Are there any video demonstrations of these strikes and/or submissions.
Nope...look carefully....
The guy in black pant know every posture and estimate the Muay Thai opponent movement. That is why it look like that. The guy with Muay Thai can't do anything
What's stopping the Thai fighter from tying up with Silat fighter when he's rushing him?
Do you have a video of a professional Muay Thai fighter losing to a Silat fighter?
So theoretically the moves are effective? Surely you would have to be an incredibly accurate striker in order to land a potentially fatal shot? Are there any video demonstrations of these strikes and/or submissions.
Of course that's precision work and it's hard to do on the fly in the middle of a match but that said once the hold is locked in it's game over.
And none that i can find that aren't mindless slug matches done rather poorly on film, its a rare skill set outside the military (especially LDS now that its retired)
That said i found one that shows a handful of decent holds but alas its control sparing (aka controlling the weapon hand of an opponent)
Watch carefully at 1:17 through 1:19 though and you can a brief understanding of the positioning and stance required in baseline MAC.
It's static training though :/ its a rare school and getting rarer given that the military doesn't require anything beyond basic "competency" with it to get out of Basic.
Maybe you expect martial art fighting will be beautifully looking with some boombastic techniques...it aren't. The one i just show you is one of example when your system failed. Like i said, it look amateurish, but that happen when Muay Thai facing opponent who stand straight, the one who stand straight can read your movement and making everything you want to do failed
I've already told you, at least twice, that Muay Thai is not "my style". I train Muay Thai because it is widely regarded as having the most complete move-set for stand up fighters.
Can you explain HOW by simply standing up straight, you are able to see everything coming?
The reason that video looks amateur is because it is amateur, you even said so yourself. The fighter wearing the Thai shorts barely even attemps to use any Muay Thai techniques.
Guest_Aotearas_*
I see what you're saying now. No, I'd say all three of those fall under Martial Arts. Combat Systems and Self Defense are just marketing ploys. Wrestling, Judo, Muay Thai/Kickboxing, Jiu Jitsu are all traditional Martial Arts and extremely effective in a real-life fighting situation.
Avoiding a fight is normally the best option, but what if you have to fight to protect someone? I had to fight who was taller and heavier than I was, because he was threatening a woman with a knife. Thankfully, my training enabled me to protect myself and other people. I got away with a broken rib, three bites and both my eyes (despite the best efforts of my opponent to gouge them out).
There are techniques which are effective in competition but not so effective in a street fight.
I don't think you actually understood what I was saying. The difference is not primarily in techniques that are taught (though the difference are there obviously) but the mentality that is being ingrained into the respective students.
Martial arts like I mentioned are focusing on the spritual, philosophical side of the form they are practicing. Be calm, move like the grass, etc.. And whilst certainly an effective mindset when you are just practicing it and as a whole a healthy attitude, it simply doesn't reflect fighting.
Similarily, sports or more accurately, sportified forms, without fail, operate under a ruleset. Gauging out eyes isn't allowed, certain body areas are prohibited to attack and fights are governed by a referee and called short according to rulesets. And again, a real fight doesn't have rules. If they guy gets a hold of your eyes, he'll try to gauge them in. If he has a weapon, he will not discard it in a sense of fairplay or avoid hitting your head, groin, throat, etc. with it. Neither can you count that an attacker will be alone as students are familiar with one on one sparring or tournament fights. Actually most of the time, attackers are not alone.
And even a good couple of self defense forms are too focused on the flight rather than fight aspect. Fleeing is of course the most sensible thing to do if you are confronted with someone out for trouble. I'd rather have them laugh at me and call me a coward than end up being a dead hero all day long. But as you have said, for once there is not always the choice of fleeing. Maybe you want to protect someone, or maybe you're cornered. And here, most self defense courses no longer supply the required mentality of going for the jugular. Once your choice of fight or flight is reduced to fight, you need a certain aggressive mentality to go through with it. Half hearted attacks will in most cases not work, or at least come hand in hand with severe risks.
I do not think that self defence or combat systems are a marketing ploy in any way. Sure, some specific ones might just be, trying to cash in on unaware people because they market that extra oomph, the badass factor or whatever. But that goes for every school you can find, be it Karate, Judo , Systema or Krav Maga.
I don't think you actually understood what I was saying. The difference is not primarily in techniques that are taught (though the difference are there obviously) but the mentality that is being ingrained into the respective students.
Martial arts like I mentioned are focusing on the spritual, philosophical side of the form they are practicing. Be calm, move like the grass, etc.. And whilst certainly an effective mindset when you are just practicing it and as a whole a healthy attitude, it simply doesn't reflect fighting.
Are you sure this is the optimum definition of Martial Arts, or simply yours? Of course, if that's the way you see it then thats' fine.
Martial, Warrior; Art, Skills
In a self defence class the instructor is either going to be teaching Martial Arts techniques OR overly complicated counters to attacks where in reality you will have mere seconds to react.
A fighting system is just a phrase tagged on to Martial Arts. You might see Judo Fighting Systems, Jiu Jitsu Fighting Systems or Krav Maga Fighting Systems. Or it might be someone taking techniques from various arts, which is simply mixed-martial arts.
What's the locking technique, Quistina?
Guest_Aotearas_*
Are you sure this is the optimum definition of Martial Arts, or simply yours? Of course, if that's the way you see it then thats' fine.
Martial, Warrior; Art, Skills
In a self defence class the instructor is either going to be teaching Martial Arts techniques OR overly complicated counters to attacks where in reality you will have mere seconds to react.
A fighting system is just a phrase tagged on to Martial Arts. You might see Judo Fighting Systems, Jiu Jitsu Fighting Systems or Krav Maga Fighting Systems. Or it might be someone taking techniques from various arts, which is simply mixed-martial arts.
Of course it is my definition, it's why I asked if you make the distinction too in the first place.
Ah, okay then.
I think I'd prefer to stick to Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu, Qistina. I tend to avoid choreographed video demonstrations like those. You know, the Steven Segal Wing Chung videos, etc.
How about a video of sparring or an actual fight, where the locking techniques are applied against someone who's resisting? So far all you've managed to produce is a choreographed fight sequence and a video of some guys dancing. I take it Silat teaches weapon disarming techniques as well?
Here's a cool fight (actually one of the best fights) to watch if you're curious about MMA.
Shogun vs. Minotouro.
http://www.dailymoti...t1c8y_mvs_sport
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