122 réponses à ce sujet

[Jordan]

Would love to do some jiujitsu some day. Was introduced to the classical variants in Karate' days, but there's so much to do there really, it seems really to be an essential part of actual self-defense.

 

It certainly is.  You're familiar with the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship), right?  Well what about the Gracie family?  They are widely considered the founders of Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ).  Sometimes it's even known as Gracie jiu-jitsu.

 

Royce Gracie, a 3rd or 4th degree black belt in Brazilian/Gracie jiu-jitsu at the time, won 3 of the first 4 UFC events.  He matched up against straight boxers, kickboxers and wrestlers.  There were probably some Karate guys thrown in there along with some Judo players too (No Silat guys, unsurprisingly).

 

Royce Gracie proved that in a straight up style vs style matchup, in as close to a real life fight situation as you were going to get, BJJ conquered all.  Now, I'm sure modern Wrestling incorporates techniques which stifle BJJ, which is probably why wrestlers currently dominate the UFC.  Nevertheless, BJJ is invaluable for ground defense if nothing else, controlling someone who is trying to hurt you.

[slimgrin]

Gustafsson wins, as expected. Jones better be ready cause Ales is gonna be a lot more aggressive this time around.

[Jordan]

I only watched the fight once but I saw it 49-46 for Jones. Jones was the only one who came close to finishing, and he might have it in the bag if he and Jackson can figure out how to get Gus down.

Loved Gus' Viking roar at the end, plus the KO itself was awesome, brutal hammer fists.

[Dovahzeymahlkey]

Did you guys know theres a Horse stance in Kung-fu?

[Jordan]

"Silat beats Muay Thai by standing up straight" - Qistina

 

[Ridwan]

It certainly is.  You're familiar with the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship), right?  Well what about the Gracie family?  They are widely considered the founders of Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ).  Sometimes it's even known as Gracie jiu-jitsu.

 

Royce Gracie, a 3rd or 4th degree black belt in Brazilian/Gracie jiu-jitsu at the time, won 3 of the first 4 UFC events.  He matched up against straight boxers, kickboxers and wrestlers.  There were probably some Karate guys thrown in there along with some Judo players too (No Silat guys, unsurprisingly).

 

Royce Gracie proved that in a straight up style vs style matchup, in as close to a real life fight situation as you were going to get, BJJ conquered all.  Now, I'm sure modern Wrestling incorporates techniques which stifle BJJ, which is probably why wrestlers currently dominate the UFC.  Nevertheless, BJJ is invaluable for ground defense if nothing else, controlling someone who is trying to hurt you.

 

Professional wrestling > Jiu Jitsu.

[Jordan]

Don't be scared, homie.

Ridwan, you watching 171 on Saturday? I'm pulling for Jake the snake, where you at Carlos and the weird guy who chews tobacco.

[Ridwan]

I'll be watching it. I think I might make a few bets too. Lombard has a bigger chance of winning, since I can see him keep the fight standing. Condit will win too, he's good enough to be champion. And from the GSP fight, it's pretty clear that Hendricks has a very good team in terms of analyzing, and I can see them coming up with a good plan against Lawler.

 

And professional wrestling still > Jiu Jitsu.

[Jordan]

Yeah but you've got to support the scrap pack, regardless of whether or not he goes against the team principles.  I like Condit, I'd like to see him win the title, didn't really feel like Hendricks 'beat' him.  It would be kind of hilarious if Robbie Lawler won the title, just wouldn't seem right.

 

Are you joking about pro wrestling (dub-ya dub-ya e) or do you mean amateur wrestling (high school, college)?

[Ridwan]

Not joking at all, in fact the guy in this picture and in my AV made his name off of beating Jiu Jitsu fighters.

 

[Jordan]

Sakuraba was an amateur wrestler who transitioned into Pro Wrestling as a career.  Pro Wrestling isn't a fighting style.

[Ridwan]

Sakuraba was an amateur wrestler who transitioned into Pro Wrestling as a career.  Pro Wrestling isn't a fighting style.

 

That's not what Sakuraba says "In fact professional wrestling is strong!"

 

To be straight, Sakuraba's fighting background before he started MMA was Professional shoot wrestling. Don't confuse American Pro Wrestling, with Japanese Pro wrestling. The Japanese, like to have long, hard, technical and as realistically as possible matches. Hence his catch submission wrestling abilities.

 

Tamura, Funaki, Suzuki and Minowa were also professional wrestlers.

[Jordan]

Sakuraba also says you should study Pokémon to get strong.

 

It's not Martial Arts.  Saying Pro Wrestling beats an actual fighting style is very insulting.  Brock Lesnar didn't win a UFC title because of techniques he picked up in the Pro Wrestling business.

 

I've watched the fake matches in Pride FC and they're embarrassingly unrealistic.

 

This is a Martial Arts discussion thread, not the scripted entertainment discussion thread.  At the end of the day, we can look to the UFC as the ultimate proving ground.  How many Pro Wrestlers are competing in the UFC?  It's a lot of shite.

[slimgrin]

Sakuraba did fight real matches in MMA. Quite a few of them. And you're saying Pride was fake? You can't be serious. MMA doesn't exist solely in the UFC. 

[Ridwan]

Sakuraba also says you should study Pokémon to get strong.

 

It's not Martial Arts.  Saying Pro Wrestling beats an actual fighting style is very insulting.  Brock Lesnar didn't win a UFC title because of techniques he picked up in the Pro Wrestling business.

 

I've watched the fake matches in Pride FC and they're embarrassingly unrealistic.

 

This is a Martial Arts discussion thread, not the scripted entertainment discussion thread.  At the end of the day, we can look to the UFC as the ultimate proving ground.  How many Pro Wrestlers are competing in the UFC?  It's a lot of shite.

 

The UFC isn't the be all and end all in MMA. In fact for a number of years it was considered the minor league compared to Pride FC (and I'd like you to show me all the fake fights in Pride that doesn't involve Takada).

 

I don't think you understand the difference between Japanese pro wrestling and American pro wrestling. Japanese pro wrestling is actually considered a legit sport and martial art in Japan, and if you take the time to watch a few professional shoot wrestling (or puroresu) you'll see that it involves a lot of catch wrestling. Two of the forefathers of MMA, Masakatsu Funaki and Minoro Suzuki started as pro wrestlers and they were technical wizards on the ground, teaching and cornering fighters like Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock and Bas Rutten.

 

About Brock Lesnar; Lesnar despite having a very successful amatuer career in wrestling, didn't know a thing about submissions. Which was evident in his UFC fights, in fact the triangle arm choke he submitted Carwin was taught to him by his BJJ coach. Ergo it shows that in American pro-wrestling very little value is placed on catch submission wrestling, unlike in Japan.

 

The MMA scene in Japan is not as popular as it once were, and there's more money in pro wrestling than MMA usually. Not to mention the respect for pro wrestling that I mentioned earlier.

 

Sakuraba's catch submission wrestling that he learned from professional wrestling defeated four members of the Gracie family, including Royce.

So as Sakuraba famously declared after he won the UFC Japan tournament "In fact, professional wrestling is strong!".

[Jordan]

And what exactly does catch wrestling have to do with Japan or two guys rolling around pretending to fight? It's a Martial Art of British Origins. If you apply catch wrestling techniques in a fight then you are using Martial Arts techniques and not Pro Wrestling. Obviously, you are not a very intelligent man.

[mybudgee]

LOLself-taught

[Jordan]

That means drilling techniques with a partner. Due to work commitments, a Jiu-Jitsu school is not a possibility at present; however I am able to train Muay Thai. The general consensus amongst Jiu-Jitsu practitioners is that drilling techniques is the most efficient and effective form of learning before "rolling", which I also do. Clearly, you are about as smart as your ridiculous username would suggest.

[slimgrin]

And what exactly does catch wrestling have to do with Japan or two guys rolling around pretending to fight? It's a Martial Art of British Origins. If you apply catch wrestling techniques in a fight then you are using Martial Arts techniques and not Pro Wrestling. Obviously, you are not a very intelligent man.

 

Well, whatever Sakuraba did, it worked for a lot of fights. And it's true that pro wrestling in Japan is closer to actual wrestling than say the WWE, which is of course all show. Anyway, who do you guys got winning this weekend?

 

I have Hendricks over Lawler and Condit beating Woodley.

[Jordan]

I'm sure he learned every aspect, like every other half way intelligent mixed martial arts fighter does. It wasn't enough to save him from Wandy Silva 3 times, though.

For the record I was NOT saying that Pride was fake. I'm a big fan, actually. There's no denying that there were a few fake fights here and there, right?

Hendricks looked terrible at the weigh in; needs to see a better barber too. Got to love Nick Diaz heckling him too.

[Ridwan]

And what exactly does catch wrestling have to do with Japan or two guys rolling around pretending to fight? It's a Martial Art of British Origins. If you apply catch wrestling techniques in a fight then you are using Martial Arts techniques and not Pro Wrestling. Obviously, you are not a very intelligent man.

So you are not familiar with Japanese pro wrestling, but call me unintelligent?

[Master Warder Z_]

So you are not familiar with Japanese pro wrestling, but call me unintelligent?

 

Seems about the short and dry of it.

[Jordan]

I am familiar with it.  It's a lot of shite, like it's American counterpart.  It's a world where even Bob Sapp can win, and is complete with dropkicks and elbow drops.  Dress it up any way you want, pro wrestling is pro wrestling.

 

Josh Barnett's a catch wrestler; is his UFC title thanks to Pro Wrestling?  If Mike Tyson won a UFC title would it be thanks to his Pro Wrestling experience?

[slimgrin]

Well it's pointless to debate. No one thinks pro wrestling and MMA are the same. Japanese wrestlers like Sakuraba have to employ real MMA techniques to win. As to the UFC, I agree with Jordan it's become for the most part the ultimate proving ground. They've done a good job of scooping up the best talent and they consistently make competitive matches. No one gets coddled in the UFC. I also think launching the women's division was a progressive move. It may be lacking depth right now as Rousey's tossing everyone around like a sack of potatoes, but in time the division will get deeper.

[Ridwan]

2 out of 3, didn't expect the Condit/Woodley fight to end like that.