62 réponses à ce sujet

[Astrogenesis]

Back in the days of ME1, you could be roaming the streets of the Citadel wards one minute, and then you would walk in to a room and engage in a fire fight the next. Everything was seamless. You would walk in to an elevator, take a ride and exit somewhere else.  

 

Then ME2 came along and turned the flowing story into segmented missions. With ME1 you would pick Noveria on the galaxy map, the Normandy would arrive, you would get out and speak to the locals, and then start the mission. In ME2, you pick your destination and POW, you stood outside the settlement on Horizon.  

They even did it to the Normandy. Gone were the days of using stairs, you just walk in to the elevator shaft and watch a loading screen.

At least we still had non combat orientated missions (such as Samara and Thane's loyalty missions), and even Garrus' recruitment mission which was a nice blend of combat and free-roam, really bringing back memories of Feros and Noveria.

 

Then we get ME3. I liked that you could now walk around the Citadel in your slacks, but with that comes the inability to engage enemies in combat, unless its in a cutscene or traveling to a separate area. But like the Normandy, they separated the Citadel up by adding loading screens and elevators you can't enter. Similarly just like ME2, the missions seem singular and segmented to the on going story. Loading screen, mission. Loading screen, back on the Normandy.

Then there's not being able to holster weapons during missions, eliminating the chance of having mixed missions. The closest you get is Sur'Kesh, but even then non-combat sections are separated by load screens. At least ME2 has sections like Mordin's med clinic on Omega, which you can just walk in to.

 

I know people will say "Why would you want to holster your weapon in a combat zone?", but the problem is deeper than that. It spoils the immersion and limits mission design.

I know that a lot of these issues stem from disc size and limited processing power on last gen consoles, so with a bit of luck, these issues will be reverted for Mass Effect 4, provided that they don't release on the 360 and PS3.

 

Does anyone else agree, or am I just being to picky?         

[GreyLycanTrope]

I kinda agree, there are elements of ME2 and ME3 that make me feel like I'm just wondering from one shooting gallery to the next with the hubs essentially being designated safe zones, I do miss the exploratory aspect of the ME1 Citadel were you could potentially just walk into a fire fight without knowing you started a mission.

 

I'm not in favor of the elevators returning though. While immersive loading screens they were still very annoying loading screens.

[Iamjdr]

I do miss the more seemless transitions of me1. I also think it was done very well in The 2nd a 3rd dead space games. I find it curious that you say they are annoying but immersive and I have to ask, seeing as loading screen will most likely be in the next mass effect regardless wouldn't it be better for them to be more immersive? It's not like looking at an actual loading screen is any less annoying is it?

[Astrogenesis]

In ME2, to listen to the news you had to access the terminal and then hang around while it spoke to you. I would much rather have an elevator ride that told me the news instead of a loading screen.

 

And if their wasn't any news (because that'll never happen) then your 2 squaddies could interact like they do on the Normandy in ME3, or do something daft like have a quick game of rock paper scissors. 

[Village_Idiot]

I couldn't agree more. The complete segregation of combat missions and hub areas makes the game feel far more linear. As you said, ME1 was far more free-flowing (even if it led to odd situations like drawing weapons in public with no reactions or repercussions) which made ambush events, such as when two of Saren's assassins jump you outside Chora's Den, feel far more unexpected. One moment you're walking along carefree, the next you're in a firefight.

 

In ME2/3, you were always very much aware of the fact you were in a combat segment. Each wave of enemies was a given, rather than a surprise. The fact combat sections were also often accessed via a taxi/elevator/shuttle transition with a loading screen also made all the combat missions feel as though they were in self-contained boxes, after which you'd return to the hub area or Normandy.

 

ME2 was the worst offender in this regard, ME3 wasn't quite as bad since transitions were mostly Normandy->Planetside and would have a cutscene inside the shuttle whilst en route, but the game as a whole was still far more segregated than ME1.

[von uber]

You can tell when combat will happen by the sudden appearance of waist high objects..

[Mcfly616]

I've been calling for this for quite some time now. The mission-to-mission format in ME2 was a step back. The addition of the "Mission Summary" screen was about as asinine as how linear they made the game. It definitely breaks immersion.

[SNascimento]

I agree, but it's worth mentioning that the reason ME1 managed to do that it's because combat was simpler and more based on stats. You can see the same thing in the Dragon Age games for example, where squadmates could just turn on you in a moment notice. DA combat supported that, ME2 and ME3 do not. You need a level desgined for combat, with cover and stuff like that.

To make the next Mass Effect more seamless and keep the much improved combat from ME2 and ME3 you have to come up with a gameplay mechanic to support that kind of combat. You can organize the maps accordingly, but it would still limit what you can do. 

[Bob from Accounting]

I know that a lot of these issues stem from disc size and limited processing power on last gen consoles, so with a bit of luck, these issues will be reverted for Mass Effect 4, provided that they don't release on the 360 and PS3.

 

 

You might want to check your facts, since I seriously doubt this 'issue' has a thing to do with 'disc size.'

 

About the issue in question...I'm not sure exactly what you mean. There were plenty of instances in ME 2 where Shepard would be in a 'peaceful' area and then the squad would spot enemies and draw weapons. And it was perfectly seamless.

 

So...it sounds like you want firefights to start in civilian areas or something?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You might want to check your facts, since I seriously doubt this 'issue' has a thing to do with 'disc size.'

 

Disputing a claim and then not making a counter argument renders said dispute worthless.

 

Provide your counter-argument. Don't just question facts because you 'seriously doubt' the issue.

[Astrogenesis]

You might want to check your facts, since I seriously doubt this 'issue' has a thing to do with 'disc size.'

 

About the issue in question...I'm not sure exactly what you mean. There were plenty of instances in ME 2 where Shepard would be in a 'peaceful' area and then the squad would spot enemies and draw weapons. And it was perfectly seamless.

 

So...it sounds like you want firefights to start in civilian areas or something?

Well....yes.

 

Defending the likes of Barla Von and the other store keepers in the Presidium Comms from Cerberus attacks would be fore more gripping than defending random NPCs in some previously unseen combat area.

[Bob from Accounting]

So you want this to be a surprise attack, then? No cutscenes, just Cerberus popping out and shooting up the place?

[Astrogenesis]

So you want this to be a surprise attack, then? No cutscenes, just Cerberus popping out and shooting up the place?

Of course not, that was just an example.

[Astrogenesis]

.......and isn't that how it happened anyway.

 

You show up at the Citadel to find Cerberus shooting up the place.

[Bob from Accounting]

Okay...so what exactly is it that you want?

 

If it's 'free-flowing,' if Shepard is just walking around in a civilian area and a fight breaks out without a cutscene to introduce the enemies and have Shepard react, it's going to be a surprise. (And it's almost certainly going to come off as rather silly and nonsensical, since it's difficult to have characters react appropriately to such an event without a cutscene.)

 

So is this supposed to be a surprise for the player or not?

[Astrogenesis]

Okay...so what exactly is it that you want?

 

If it's 'free-flowing,' if Shepard is just walking around in a civilian area and a fight breaks out without a cutscene to introduce the enemies and have Shepard react, it's going to be a surprise. (And it's almost certainly going to come off as rather silly and nonsensical, since it's difficult to have characters react appropriately to such an event without a cutscene.)

 

So is this supposed to be a surprise for the player or not?

What about when you enter the ally way in Mass Effect and have to stop the thugs from killing Tali, or when you exit Cora's Den and are jumped by Saren's men.

 

And I'm not saying that you can't have free-flowing and cutscenes together. Cutscens are fine, a 15 second loading screen to get to the other side of a door, is not. 

[Bob from Accounting]

Tali's attack still has a cutscene. And the situation outside of Chora's Den wouldn't be as solid if it was a crowded area or it was a larger attack and not just two thugs.

 

As for loading screens...I don't know what to tell you. I mean, do you imagine developers put them in for fun? Nobody likes them, but developers wouldn't use them if they weren't necessary. If they're so unacceptable to you...I guess you could try never playing video games?

[Astrogenesis]

Tali's attack still has a cutscene. And the situation outside of Chora's Den wouldn't be as solid if it was a crowded area or it was a larger attack and not just two thugs.

 

As for loading screens...I don't know what to tell you. I mean, do you imagine developers put them in for fun? Nobody likes them, but developers wouldn't use them if they weren't necessary. If they're so unacceptable to you...I guess you could try never playing video games?

I've kind of lost interest in replying to you because you fail to remember what I have said in a previous post.

 

And I'm not saying that loading screens should not be in games. Necessary or not, the point I am making is that they break the immersion and flow of gameplay. This is more specifically aimed at ME3, as it needs to load between combat and non-combat areas, which wasn't a problem in previous games, because you could holster your weapon, giving the gameplay more flow. 

[Bob from Accounting]

It seems to me you're not really saying a whole lot at all.

 

You want gameplay to have more 'flow.' Okay. So your suggestions to do that boil down to...get rid of loading screens. In a rather passive-aggressive and roundabout fashion, I might add. First you say 15 second loading screens are 'not fine' (which obviously means they need to go) and then say loading screens are okay. You say gameplay needs more flow and explicitly say loading screens break immersion and 'flow.'

 

Uh-huh.

 

Well that's a completely useless suggestion, right? Developers obviously can't get rid of loading screens without making huge compromises elsewhere or they would have done so.

 

So there's that and...return the holstering of weapons. Okay. That's a bit more reasonable. Why didn't you just make that your title? Or is there something else you wanted to advocate here? A little more useful than "Get rid of loading"?

[Astrogenesis]

It seems to me you're not really saying a whole lot at all.

 

You want gameplay to have more 'flow.' Okay. So your suggestions to do that boil down to...get rid of loading screens. In a rather passive-aggressive and roundabout fashion, I might add. First you say 15 second loading screens are 'not fine' (which obviously means they need to go) and then say loading screens are okay. You say gameplay needs more flow and explicitly say loading screens break immersion and 'flow.'

 

Uh-huh.

 

Well that's a completely useless suggestion, right? Developers obviously can't get rid of loading screens without making huge compromises elsewhere or they would have done so.

 

So there's that and...return the holstering of weapons. Okay. That's a bit more reasonable. Why didn't you just make that your title? Or is there something else you wanted to advocate here? A little more useful than "Get rid of loading"?

Hang on, at what point did I say loading screens are Ok?

Of course devs don't put them in by choice, that would be daft. But you wouldn't need one if the game didn't have to switch from passive to combat mode like you could in ME1 and 2 by holstering your weapon.

 

And as I pointed out in the OP, load screens will become less of an issue on the next gen consoles as they have more power. Meaning that holstering your weapon could return, as a lack of memory is what caused the problem in ME3, according to the devs anyway.

[Bob from Accounting]

.....

 

Do you any idea at all what memory in a computer is or does...?

 

I can assure you that putting holstering weapons back in the game does not magically remove the need for the game to load assets. I have no clue at all where you got that idea from. It's wrong. Plan and simple. The ability to holster weapons did not remove loading screens on the Citadel or on missions in ME 1 and 2.

 

And I'm not saying that loading screens should not be in games.

 

Does this not mean loading screens are okay?

[Astrogenesis]

.....

 

Do you any idea at all what memory in a computer is or does...?

 

I can assure you that putting holstering weapons back in the game does not magically remove the need for the game to load assets. I have no clue at all where you got that idea from. It's wrong. Plan and simple.

 

 

Does this not mean loading screens are okay?

I was keeping it simple, I didn't want to confuse you :/

[Bob from Accounting]

You're under the impression that if holstering weapons is put back in...loading screens will no longer be required. Is that right?

[von uber]

The problem is that the games were developed for old hardware with their limitations, as opposed to being developed for example purely for a PC where there would be far fewer limitations and requirements for loading screens (or loading weapon scanners..).

[Bob from Accounting]

The problem is that the games were developed for old hardware with their limitations, as opposed to being developed for example purely for a PC where there would be far fewer limitations and requirements for loading screens (or loading weapon scanners..).

Limitations are still alive and well for even the most modern PC and likely to remain around for the foreseeable future.

 

So this 'problem' is unlikely to be going anywhere.