697 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I don't think there's any problem with Qunari females adhering to a human female standard of attraction... to a point. Certainly there needs to be an effort to give them a physique that marks them as different.

Kind of reminds me of a Call of Cthulu character a friend of mine rolled randomly. Very tall, very strong, very pretty, basically an Amazon. Grey the skin, put on horns, and tone the muscles accordingly and I'd be pretty satisfied. Qunari males aren't so alien themselves that females would be expected to be any more so.

[Lebanese Dude]

It's a fair enough assumption that humanoid races in Thedas would share a similar genetic makeup to humans given their appearance.

Here's one potential reason for the discrepancy between the body shape of Qunari men and women.

As you remember, Qunari mating is done through selective breeding. It is an organized structure, not random like the one in human society. Given that almost all male Qunari have been part of the warrior sect of the Qun, it is entirely reasonable that they were purposely bred to be hulking mounds of muscle and strength. We don't know anything about Qunari society outside of what has been told to us, so perhaps not all Qunari males are as buff as the ones we have seen.

Even if they were, that does not diminish the effect of selective breeding.

Women on the other hand, are not bred to be front line warriors. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that they wouldn't be bred to be equivalents of she-hulks because it was never necessary. Any females that resulted from the attempts to breed strong males would be assigned as part of the non-frontline fighters (ben-hassrath) we have yet to see.
As for why the Qunari females wear impractical yet sexualized clothing, perhaps they simply don't care to cover things up, as their culture is different than ours. You have to remember that the reason why women can't publicly bear their chests like men is primarily due to human culture. Guys didnt like other guys looking at their women's bosoms. Since this doesn't apply to Qunari culture, they dress as provocatively (to other races) as they want.

Furthermore, we know little of Seheron and Par Vollen but it seems to have a hot climate. Their clothing (or lack of it) is likely is likely a leftover from their cultural dress back home.

I can go on and on and on. In the end it is all unnecessary, because this is a fantasy setting so not everything translates 1 to 1 and everything can be explained logically because it is all made up.

[Xilizhra]

It's a fair enough assumption that humanoid races in Thedas would share a similar genetic makeup to humans given their appearance.

Here's one potential reason for the discrepancy between the body shape of Qunari men and women.

As you remember, Qunari mating is done through selective breeding. It is an organized structure, not random like the one in human society. Given that almost all male Qunari have been part of the warrior sect of the Qun, it is entirely reasonable that they were purposely bred to be hulking mounds of muscle and strength. We don't know anything about Qunari society outside of what has been told to us, so perhaps not all Qunari males are as buff as the ones we have seen.

Even if they were, that does not diminish the effect of selective breeding.

Women on the other hand, are not bred to be front line warriors. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that they wouldn't be bred to be equivalents of she-hulks because it was never necessary. Any females that resulted from the attempts to breed strong males would be assigned as part of the non-frontline fighters (ben-hassrath) we have yet to see.
As for why the Qunari females wear impractical yet sexualized clothing, perhaps they simply don't care to cover things up, as their culture is different than ours. You have to remember that the reason why women can't publicly bear their chests like men is primarily due to human culture. Guys didnt like other guys looking at their women's bosoms. Since this doesn't apply to Qunari culture, they dress as provocatively (to other races) as they want.

Furthermore, we know little of Seheron and Par Vollen but it seems to have a hot climate. Their clothing (or lack of it) is likely is likely a leftover from their cultural dress back home.

I can go on and on and on. In the end it is all unnecessary, because this is a fantasy setting so not everything translates 1 to 1 and everything can be explained logically because it is all made up.

I could buy this if nonwarrior males are also smaller than the warriors.

[Lebanese Dude]

I could buy this if nonwarrior males are also smaller than the warriors.

We've only seen a Qunari mage and that could always be explained in several ways.

1) Muscle mass and strength isn't related to skeletal size.
2) Magical ability is random as far as we know, so even those bred to be warriors can manifest magical ability.
3) Bioware reusing assets and giving the mage we saw the same skeleton as the warriors.

[Mihura]

The problem with this argument is again that eugenics are not a accurate science, since they cannot choose the gender of the babies, how in possible to create only warriors on the male side, without touching the female side? that makes no sense.

Why can people just come and say, I want sexy qunari female without heavy muscle. Well I want males like that too. In the end of the day this would make them humans, why even bother with a different races?

Can we just have at least three types of bodies? that way everyone would be satisfied. I really do not get why are people so afraid of heavy muscle on women.

[Lebanese Dude]

The problem with this argument is again that eugenics are not a accurate science, since they cannot choose the gender of the babies, how in possible to create only warriors on the male side, without touching the female side? that makes no sense.
Why can people just come and say, I want sexy qunari female without heavy muscle. Well I want males like that too. In the end of the day this would make them humans, why even bother with a different races?
Can we just have at least three types of bodies? that way everyone would be satisfied. I really do not get why are people so afraid of heavy muscle on women.

I explained it in my post. First of all it is important to note that this is all purely speculation. We have only seen the male outcome of that selective breeding. We have yet to see where the women go. Perhaps they are assigned a different task. As you recall, women are the teachers and instructors in Qunari society. Perhaps the women are the drill instructors of the men. Perhaps they assign them to covert operations. Why not?

Regarding your second point, it is very important to realize that the distinction in races on DA (or any fantasy setting) isn't as much as in their biologies but in their cultures. Non-humanoid races are nice, but they are just s different than what we humans perceive and relate to that it is not worth it for writers and developers to bother with it. Just give them pointy ears and change their culture. That's what makes it all interesting, not whether their skin is gelatinous or not etc...
Bioware is crafting a fantasy story, not a National Geographic special on Aliens.

Edit: regarding your opinion that we would include more body types, I am on board with that. Doubt it will happen though.

[Heimdall]

It's a fair enough assumption that humanoid races in Thedas would share a similar genetic makeup to humans given their appearance.

Here's one potential reason for the discrepancy between the body shape of Qunari men and women.

As you remember, Qunari mating is done through selective breeding. It is an organized structure, not random like the one in human society. Given that almost all male Qunari have been part of the warrior sect of the Qun, it is entirely reasonable that they were purposely bred to be hulking mounds of muscle and strength. We don't know anything about Qunari society outside of what has been told to us, so perhaps not all Qunari males are as buff as the ones we have seen.

Even if they were, that does not diminish the effect of selective breeding.

Women on the other hand, are not bred to be front line warriors. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that they wouldn't be bred to be equivalents of she-hulks because it was never necessary. Any females that resulted from the attempts to breed strong males would be assigned as part of the non-frontline fighters (ben-hassrath) we have yet to see.
As for why the Qunari females wear impractical yet sexualized clothing, perhaps they simply don't care to cover things up, as their culture is different than ours. You have to remember that the reason why women can't publicly bear their chests like men is primarily due to human culture. Guys didnt like other guys looking at their women's bosoms. Since this doesn't apply to Qunari culture, they dress as provocatively (to other races) as they want.

Furthermore, we know little of Seheron and Par Vollen but it seems to have a hot climate. Their clothing (or lack of it) is likely is likely a leftover from their cultural dress back home.

I can go on and on and on. In the end it is all unnecessary, because this is a fantasy setting so not everything translates 1 to 1 and everything can be explained logically because it is all made up.

That would only work if they could select a child's gender before birth. The Qunari breed for specific traits but not to give genders specific traits. They believe genders have such traits inherently.

[Mihura]

I explained it in my post. First of all it is important to note that this is all purely speculation. We have only seen the male outcome of that selective breeding. We have yet to see where the women go. Perhaps they are assigned a different task. As you recall, women are the teachers and instructors in Qunari society. Perhaps the women are the drill instructors of the men. Perhaps they assign them to covert operations. Why not?

Regarding your second point, it is very important to realize that the distinction in races on DA (or any fantasy setting) isn't as much as in their biologies but in their cultures. Non-humanoid races are nice, but they are just s different than what we humans perceive and relate to that it is not worth it for writers and developers to bother with it. Just give them pointy ears and change their culture. That's what makes it all interesting, not whether their skin is gelatinous or not etc...
Bioware is crafting a fantasy story, not a National Geographic special on Aliens.

 

Eugenics just does not work that way, there is no way that is possible. As for tasks that women qunari preform you have smiths and builders and that is done with a lot of strength, so again your argument fail to address their own culture. Also the writers already state that they are more than capable of defending their home in times of war.

 

I was not talking about making them aliens bugs, aliens bugs not have the same type of body as humanoids. I was talking about they making the race consistent across genders, and not falling into the trap of doing that only to the male side.

[Lebanese Dude]

Eugenics just does not work that way, there is no way that is possible. As for tasks that women qunari preform you have smiths and builders and that is done with a lot of strength, so again your argument fail to address their own culture. Also the writers already state that they are more than capable of defending their home in times of war.

I was not talking about making them aliens bugs, aliens bugs not have the same type of body as humanoids. I was talking about they making the race consistent across genders, and not falling into the trap of doing that only to the male side.

Am I not being clear? Women who result from that selective breeding are used for other tasks that we have not seen. Drill instructors, teachers, home defense, ben hassrath etc...Also, you can assume that these women in turn are used in the breeding process as well and the cycle goes on. I never said no women result from the breeding. That is preposterous. We have only seen the male outcome of that selective breeding. Again, this is all purely speculation.

If people here are going to generalize how Qunari women look like based on a few pictures, I fail to see why I can't refute their arguments based on speculation.

Also, you stated that there is no point in making races different if they all look the same. I countered that argument stressing that culture is the variance point in such stories and not biology.

[Lebanese Dude]

That would only work if they could select a child's gender before birth. The Qunari breed for specific traits but not to give genders specific traits. They believe genders have such traits inherently.

That would only work if they could select a child's gender before birth. The Qunari breed for specific traits but not to give genders specific traits. They believe genders have such traits inherently.

Women resulting from selective breeding for warriors, if comparable to human standards, are still physically weaker than their equivalent male counterparts. Hence, they still would not be placed on the front lines.

[Mihura]

Am I not being clear? Women who result from that selective breeding are used for other tasks that we have not seen. Drill instructors, teachers, home defense, ben hassrath etc...Also, you can assume that these women in turn are used in the breeding process as well and the cycle goes on. I never said no women result from the breeding. That is preposterous. We have only seen the male outcome of that selective breeding. Again, this is all purely speculation.

If people here are going to generalize how Qunari women look like based on a few pictures, I fail to see why I can't refute their arguments based on speculation.

Also, you stated that there is no point in making races different if they all look the same. I countered that argument stressing that culture is the variance point in such stories and not biology.

 
No, you are not understanding, eugenics do not work that way. Selecting breading is a sham in the way people think that works to better a race. 
 

What I am saying is that the race should have some differences on the physical side since the male had them too. If not why bother at all, if they look all like female humans?
 

Women resulting from selective breeding for warriors, if comparable to human standards, are still physically weaker than their equivalent male counterparts. Hence, they still would not be placed on the front lines.

 
If they are weak, how are they builders and smiths? and are responsible for home defense? To me the difference are not significant at all, they just have a system that helps them have clear goals, with strict gender tasks. This does not mean women are weaker, they are just more oriented to other tasks. 
 
If they were weaker than some males had to stay at home too, to help with some of the more heavy tasks and defense and @Lord Aesir would be right about some males doing female tasks. And that makes no sense according to the lore.

 

This is my problem with the human preconception of the qunari race. You a reflecting IRL values of traditional gender roles onto a race that does not work on assumption that someone is weak, so you stay at home or in priesthood. 

[Lebanese Dude]

No, you are not understanding, eugenics do not work that way. Selecting breading is a sham in the way people think that works to better a race. 
 
What I am saying is that the race should have some differences on the physical side since the male had them too. If not why bother at all, if they look all like female humans?
 

 
If they are weak, how are they builders and smiths? and are responsible for home defense? To me the difference are not significant at all, they just have a system that helps them have clear goals, with strict gender tasks. This does not mean women are weaker, they are just more oriented to other tasks. 
 
If they were weaker than some males had to stay at home too, to help with some of the more heavy tasks and defense and @Lord Aesir would be right about some males doing female tasks. And that makes no sense according to the lore.
 
This is my problem with the human preconception of the qunari race. You a reflecting IRL values of traditional gender roles onto a race that does not work on assumption that someone is weak, so you stay at home or in priesthood.

You call selective breeding a sham when it has existed in human culture in the form of domestication of animals. It is purely for practical reasons so it would make sense that the Qunari would employ it for their own members. Again, why not? If it doesn't make sense, I'm sure there are any theories floating around how the Qunari used to be elves that drank dragon blood and transformed into their current state today. It's all speculation.

Also I never called women weak. A female Qunari could likely knock me out in one punch. Given how the Qunari follow a very efficient job selection process, it is obvious that they would use males for front line warriors as men have more strength than women (potentially) because that is just the way things are, even in real life.

Anyways we are just talking in circles at the point. I get your opinion and I actually agree that presentation of women in fantasy races should be less stereotypically "human female"-like, but that is how the artists in Bioware imagined things and we should simply respect their realization of the species. In the end, it can all be explained, and they would do a far better job at it than i ever could.

[Mihura]

You call selective breeding a sham when it has existed in human culture in the form of domestication of animals. It is purely for practical reasons so it would make sense that the Qunari would employ it for their own members. Again, why not? If it doesn't make sense, I'm sure there are any theories floating around how the Qunari used to be elves that drank dragon blood and transformed into their current state today. It's all speculation.

Also I never called women weak. A female Qunari could likely knock me out in one punch. Given how the Qunari follow a very efficient job selection process, it is obvious that they would use males for front line warriors as men have more strength than women (potentially) because that is just the way things are, even in real life.

Anyways we are just talking in circles at the point. I get your opinion and I actually agree that presentation of women in fantasy races should be less stereotypically "human female"-like, but that is how the artists in Bioware imagined things and we should simply respect their realization of the species. In the end, it can all be explained, and they would do a far better job at it than i ever could.

 

Obvious you are clueless about genetics, just because it exist in some species done artificial by humans that does not mean it makes them better, there is no correlation. You just cannot predict with certain what humanity interference with that species would do, must less with the complexity of humanoids genes. Read about eugenics than come back here. 

 

In real life women are weak? LOL ok lets end this here, it think it for the better.  

[SerCambria358]

You call selective breeding a sham when it has existed in human culture in the form of domestication of animals. It is purely for practical reasons so it would make sense that the Qunari would employ it for their own members. Again, why not? If it doesn't make sense, I'm sure there are any theories floating around how the Qunari used to be elves that drank dragon blood and transformed into their current state today. It's all speculation.

Also I never called women weak. A female Qunari could likely knock me out in one punch. Given how the Qunari follow a very efficient job selection process, it is obvious that they would use males for front line warriors as men have more strength than women (potentially) because that is just the way things are, even in real life.

Anyways we are just talking in circles at the point. I get your opinion and I actually agree that presentation of women in fantasy races should be less stereotypically "human female"-like, but that is how the artists in Bioware imagined things and we should simply respect their realization of the species. In the end, it can all be explained, and they would do a far better job at it than i ever could.

[TheLittleBird]

In real life women are weak? LOL ok lets end this here, it think it for the better.  

 

He didn't say women are weak, just that they have less strength than males on average. And this is true in real life.

[Heimdall]

Obvious you are clueless about genetics, just because it exist in some species done artificial by humans that does not mean it makes them better, there is no correlation. You just cannot predict with certain what humanity interference with that species would do, must less with the complexity of humanoids genes. Read about eugenics than come back here. 

 

In real life women are weak? LOL ok lets end this here, it think it for the better.  

Actually, animal breeders have been breeding animals like horses and dogs for centuries for specific traits with success.  Its no secret that if two parents possess a trait then their offspring stands a good chance of inheriting it.  The Qunari don't breed to create the ubermensch, they try to encourage the proliferation of specific traits in specific roles.

 

Women do possess less upper body strength than men (On average).  That's a biological fact.  Testosterone is a natural steroid, promoting muscle growth in men that women (Again, on average) would be more hard pressed to achieve.

[Iron Fist]

With all this talk of selective breeding, it would be awesome to have a female qunari in the vein of Miranda Lawson. 

[Heimdall]

With all this talk of selective breeding, it would be awesome to have a female qunari in the vein of Miranda Lawson. 

I don't think sexiness is a trait the Qunari particularly care about.

[SerCambria358]

I don't think sexiness is a trait the Qunari particularly care about.

You dont have to care about being sexy, to be sexy . Plus who says she needs to be qunari and not Tal-Vashoth like the iron bull

[Iron Fist]

I don't think sexiness is a trait the Qunari particularly care about.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly.

[SerCambria358]

I disagree wholeheartedly.

In that universe, Alistair beat Sten one on one. I dont think it should be canon

[Sylvianus]

So what people are asking here, for the female Qunari. 

 

 Female qunari with zero appeal? Or attractive and muscular? Or as monstrous as males with or without sex appeal ? Or monstrous, with zero sex appeal and very very muscular, ? 

 

Personnally, I don't see why the Qunari couldn't be pretty like the other people. After all, they need to be a little attractive if they want their romance. I do hope the male qunari won't be too ugly. I liked how they were in DAII. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Can we just have at least three types of bodies? that way everyone would be satisfied. I really do not get why are people so afraid of heavy muscle on women.

Bioware said that there will be a set body type for every gender and race option, so the female Qunari will only have one that people can't edit.

[Steelcan]

Ok so have we arrived at the conclusion?

 

"They will look like over sexualized human with horns" yet?

[Mihura]

Bioware said that there will be a set body type for every gender and race option, so the female Qunari will only have one that people can't edit.

 

Can I have a source on that? if that is true I guess this is going to be more disappointing that I would expect. Oh well guess I am playing female elf than.