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[Banxey]

Considering she's a priestess, i doubt physical activity is a factor

 

Even priestesses have to bend over to pick things up off of the floor sometimes. 

 

edit: Do they have duct tape in Thedas? 

[Brass_Buckles]

But it's true. Those people are right. I just can't agree with anyone refusing to aknowledge that fact, no matter how fair could be what he's asking. I don't like at all double standard. Seriously, in the lore it is said that the Qunari wear heavy armors but now they are always shirtless since DAII. And not because of the sinking of their boats. Even in MOTA, they are shirtless . 

 

 

And we didn't see the face of the female qunari yet, except from concept arts. 

 

Popping back in to respond to this because it annoys me greatly and it also ties in with what got me annoyed before.

 

You are probably a straight man.  Most women probably don't find qunari males attractive--you pay attention to the handful who do, because they're the only ones who really care.  You complain qunari are sexualized, but they aren't--unless you consider any random shirtless male ever to be sexualized (I doubt you do).  In the case of women, we don't just look at the body.  Most of us like an attractive face as the first thing we see when we look at someone.  And again, most women will prefer leaner muscle to the bulkier muscle.  I don't speak for all of us, because there are women who do think qunari are sexy.  There are also women who think turians and krogan are sexy. Just because I like Garrus as a romance option doesn't mean I agree with them on his physical form, but they're welcome to it if that's what they like.  The fact that they find Wrex attractive in some way doesn't mean he's sexualized, or will that now cause you to fear that Wrex is somehow too sexy for you to be comfortable with your game?

 

Shirtless men are considered normal by Western society and probably other places too; shirtless women aren't.  It might not be right--again, I'd love to go around topless or nearly topless in the summer, but modesty and society and fear of what men might do mean that I can't do that.

 

If he's so very sexualized, where are his tight pants?  He's pretty covered up down below.  Sure he's got muscle, but far too much of it.  Anders is a jerk but he's got a more appealing body.  And the male qunari's face isn't attractive to me; he looks like he's a stylized granite statue--and not an idealized one.  No, he's topless because the designers wanted you to see that he is powerful and mighty and also so that they could splash some cool red tattoos/war paint on him--which is another turnoff because it looks like blood and that is just gross.  If we were meant to think he's sexy, there would have been a qunari romantic interest or a flirt option.  I don't remember either being in DAO or DA2.  If you are gay or bisexual, by chance, then I don't mean to offend you in any way in saying this, but you still don't really have any kind of perspective on what it is to be a woman or what most women find attractive.  You only postulate about it from what a number have said on the forums and maybe from what you wish women found attractive (or what you wish you looked like because you think women would like it?).  But I suspect you will find, if you look, far more fans of Alistair and Zevran than you will of Sten or any camp qunari.

 

And, furthermore, so what if they are sexualized--which I suspect would be more true from the perspective of gay/bi men than that of most (but again not all) women?  We women have had to deal with Morrigan being barely dressed despite a cold climate, and Isabella, and Miranda's butt shots for how long now?  And I'm pretty sure most gay men aren't too interested in side boob or women's butts either.  The reason that a lot of women continually complain about that isn't just because we don't like being treated as objects to ogle, but also because it makes a lot of us uncomfortable when we're playing games or watching movies, too--and we have to deal with it a lot more often than when we're passing by a qunari war camp.  So maybe think about that instead of complaining that we're hurting you with a double standard when we've been dealing with this through just about every game we've ever played.

 

I'll throw you a bone here, maybe they are slightly sexualized (I do not think so, but perhaps it's just a matter of my not thinking their physique and faces are attractive and the fact that, like most people in the area, I'm used to seeing shirtless men around without thinking of sex at the same time), but not overly so, because again they don't have super-attractive faces, their muscle is too burly for most women, the war paint takes away from it, and they aren't wearing anything conveniently designed to show off any of their other assets.  And we don't get convenient camera angles showing off those assets to us whenever we talk to them, either.  They aren't animated so that they flash their behinds at us.  So it's still very much not the same as how women are usually treated in video games, even by Bioware who is better about these things than most people.

 

Straight men really have no place telling straight women what we find attractive and then arguing with us when we disagree.  We know what we think is sexy and what we don't, and you can't read our minds, so arguing the point not only gets you nowhere but also is a bit silly.  I don't recall arguing with you on what you think is sexy because I have no reason to doubt that you know what you think is sexy.  What I do know is when it's overdone.

 

I maintain that we gamer women are in fact real women.  And also that women, and women who game, are still people.

 

Now, can we stop arguing over whether or not male qunari are sexualized to the same level as women and get back on topic?

 

I want to play a female qunari with the biggest, baddest horns I can put on her.  It doesn't make sense for them to have as huge of horns as the males especially if they're going with the much lighter body design, but maybe they could be just as long but thinner?

[SerCambria358]

Even priestesses have to bend over to pick things up off of the floor sometimes. 

 

edit: Do they have duct tape in Thedas? 

lol true, eh maybe that type of strapped piece isnt functional but this is the one i had in mind not realizing that the concept art had something different:

[SerCambria358]

Popping back in to respond to this because it annoys me greatly and it also ties in with what got me annoyed before.

 

You are probably a straight man.  Most women probably don't find qunari males attractive--you pay attention to the handful who do, because they're the only ones who really care.  You complain qunari are sexualized, but they aren't--unless you consider any random shirtless male ever to be sexualized (I doubt you do).  In the case of women, we don't just look at the body.  Most of us like an attractive face as the first thing we see when we look at someone.  And again, most women will prefer leaner muscle to the bulkier muscle.  I don't speak for all of us, because there are women who do think qunari are sexy.  There are also women who think turians and krogan are sexy. Just because I like Garrus as a romance option doesn't mean I agree with them on his physical form, but they're welcome to it if that's what they like.  The fact that they find Wrex attractive in some way doesn't mean he's sexualized, or will that now cause you to fear that Wrex is somehow too sexy for you to be comfortable with your game?

 

Shirtless men are considered normal by Western society and probably other places too; shirtless women aren't.  It might not be right--again, I'd love to go around topless or nearly topless in the summer, but modesty and society and fear of what men might do mean that I can't do that.

Again, im sorry but you're making a sweeping generalization based on the few females you know that dont find the large muscled up type, to be attractive. You cant make that type of assumption based on your own perception, ignoring everyone else's view.

[Cainhurst Crow]

"Shirtless men are considered normal by Western society"

 

I live in what is considered to be western civilization and I don't think people walking around shirtless are normal. True I won't bust out my phone and take a pic but I'm certainly going to either think "Look at this ******* showing off" or "What happened to his shirt?"

[Divine Justinia V]

lol true, eh maybe that type of strapped piece isnt functional but this is the one i had in mind not realizing that the concept art had something different:

 

Trust me, I've worn something similar (original PAXE costume) and it's not functional lol. But that entire concept piece that those Qunari are feature on are all in underclothes, anyway.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Again, im sorry but you're making a sweeping generalization based on the few females you know that dont find the large muscled up type, to be attractive. You cant make that type of assumption based on your own perception, ignoring everyone else's view.

And you can't make the assumption that all females find the large muscly dudes attractive. I, personally, find them downright unattractive. Much too bulky.

The forums cannot represent anything, be it if the qunari dudes are widely accepted as 'Teh Hotness' or if they are not. Too many vocal minorities.

 

(Anyway, this is off-topic and I feel bad for contributing to it   )

[Tcab96]

"Shirtless men are considered normal by Western society"
 
I live in what is considered to be western civilization and I don't think people walking around shirtless are normal. True I won't bust out my phone and take a pic but I'm certainly going to either think "Look at this ******* showing off" or "What happened to his shirt?"

I've seen dudes walk around shirtless plenty of times, and people wouldn't care whatsoever.

[SerCambria358]

Trust me, I've worn something similar (original PAXE costume) and it's not functional lol. But that entire concept piece that those Qunari are feature on are all in underclothes, anyway.

Really? How do you know that?

[Cainhurst Crow]

And you can't make the assumption that all females find the large muscly dudes attractive. I, personally, find them downright unattractive. Much too bulky.

The forums cannot represent anything, be it if the qunari dudes are widely accepted as 'Teh Hotness' or if they are not. Too many vocal minorities.

 

(Anyway, this is off-topic and I feel bad for contributing to it   )

Can't this same argument be applied to the female qunari though? Some men don't find skinny, big breasted, women who partially show off their boobs to be attractive, therefore it isn't sexist to make them fit that particular ideal of what is sexy?

 

[sandalisthemaker]

Popping back in to respond to this because it annoys me greatly and it also ties in with what got me annoyed before.

 

You are probably a straight man.  Most women probably don't find qunari males attractive--you pay attention to the handful who do, because they're the only ones who really care.  You complain qunari are sexualized, but they aren't--unless you consider any random shirtless male ever to be sexualized (I doubt you do).  In the case of women, we don't just look at the body.  Most of us like an attractive face as the first thing we see when we look at someone.  And again, most women will prefer leaner muscle to the bulkier muscle.  I don't speak for all of us, because there are women who do think qunari are sexy.  There are also women who think turians and krogan are sexy. Just because I like Garrus as a romance option doesn't mean I agree with them on his physical form, but they're welcome to it if that's what they like.  The fact that they find Wrex attractive in some way doesn't mean he's sexualized, or will that now cause you to fear that Wrex is somehow too sexy for you to be comfortable with your game?

 

Shirtless men are considered normal by Western society and probably other places too; shirtless women aren't.  It might not be right--again, I'd love to go around topless or nearly topless in the summer, but modesty and society and fear of what men might do mean that I can't do that.

 

If he's so very sexualized, where are his tight pants?  He's pretty covered up down below.  Sure he's got muscle, but far too much of it.  Anders is a jerk but he's got a more appealing body.  And the male qunari's face isn't attractive to me; he looks like he's a stylized granite statue--and not an idealized one.  No, he's topless because the designers wanted you to see that he is powerful and mighty and also so that they could splash some cool red tattoos/war paint on him--which is another turnoff because it looks like blood and that is just gross.  If we were meant to think he's sexy, there would have been a qunari romantic interest or a flirt option.  I don't remember either being in DAO or DA2.  If you are gay or bisexual, by chance, then I don't mean to offend you in any way in saying this, but you still don't really have any kind of perspective on what it is to be a woman or what most women find attractive.  You only postulate about it from what a number have said on the forums and maybe from what you wish women found attractive (or what you wish you looked like because you think women would like it?).  But I suspect you will find, if you look, far more fans of Alistair and Zevran than you will of Sten or any camp qunari.

 

And, furthermore, so what if they are sexualized--which I suspect would be more true from the perspective of gay/bi men than that of most (but again not all) women?  We women have had to deal with Morrigan being barely dressed despite a cold climate, and Isabella, and Miranda's butt shots for how long now?  And I'm pretty sure most gay men aren't too interested in side boob or women's butts either.  The reason that a lot of women continually complain about that isn't just because we don't like being treated as objects to ogle, but also because it makes a lot of us uncomfortable when we're playing games or watching movies, too--and we have to deal with it a lot more often than when we're passing by a qunari war camp.  So maybe think about that instead of complaining that we're hurting you with a double standard when we've been dealing with this through just about every game we've ever played.

 

I'll throw you a bone here, maybe they are slightly sexualized (I do not think so, but perhaps it's just a matter of my not thinking their physique and faces are attractive and the fact that, like most people in the area, I'm used to seeing shirtless men around without thinking of sex at the same time), but not overly so, because again they don't have super-attractive faces, their muscle is too burly for most women, the war paint takes away from it, and they aren't wearing anything conveniently designed to show off any of their other assets.  And we don't get convenient camera angles showing off those assets to us whenever we talk to them, either.  They aren't animated so that they flash their behinds at us.  So it's still very much not the same as how women are usually treated in video games, even by Bioware who is better about these things than most people.

 

Straight men really have no place telling straight women what we find attractive and then arguing with us when we disagree.  We know what we think is sexy and what we don't, and you can't read our minds, so arguing the point not only gets you nowhere but also is a bit silly.  I don't recall arguing with you on what you think is sexy because I have no reason to doubt that you know what you think is sexy.  What I do know is when it's overdone.

 

I maintain that we gamer women are in fact real women.  And also that women, and women who game, are still people.

 

Now, can we stop arguing over whether or not male qunari are sexualized to the same level as women and get back on topic?

 

I want to play a female qunari with the biggest, baddest horns I can put on her.  It doesn't make sense for them to have as huge of horns as the males especially if they're going with the much lighter body design, but maybe they could be just as long but thinner?

 

Male Qunari, as we have seen them so far, mostly represent a power fantasy as opposed to being sexualized. This is evident by their aggressive nature and facial expressions. They are meant to be tough and intimidating first and foremost. As you have pointed out, there are some people who find them sexy and attractive, but that can be said about anything, really, and they weren't designed with that in mind.

 

The female Qunari that we have seen so far, the one in the comic, is a different story. She sexualized due to her pose and her sultry expression. If the male Qunari sported a dreamy expression complete with bedroom eyes, and a relaxed sensual pose then it would be a different story. But they have done nothing of the sort to date.

 

The only thing that remains to be seen is Iron Bull. If he is a romance option, then I think that his appearance and manner may very well be made to be *intentionally* attractive to players. 

 

Compare this concept to the trailer version of him.  Here, he has no bumps or ridges on his nose. He is smiling and his face looks much more human and conventionally attractive. That, combined with a somewhat friendly expression, perma-stubble, a "sexy scar", and well-manicured finger nails as opposed to claws- all would indicate that he is meant to be attractive ( and quite possible a romance option). We'll see.

 

[Divine Justinia V]

Really? How do you know that?

 

Have you seen the full photo?

[SerCambria358]

And you can't make the assumption that all females find the large muscly dudes attractive. I, personally, find them downright unattractive. Much too bulky.

The forums cannot represent anything, be it if the qunari dudes are widely accepted as 'Teh Hotness' or if they are not. Too many vocal minorities.

 

(Anyway, this is off-topic and I feel bad for contributing to it   )

I never implied that everyone did find that attractive, but reality is, some people do, some people dont. To make this broad sweep and so almost all females dont find it attractive is just too much of a guess or assumption rather than something backed up by fact.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I've seen dudes walk around shirtless plenty of times, and people wouldn't care whatsoever.

 

Well now we're at an impasse called real life. What is normal for one part of the world is abnormal for another, both of which can be assumed to live in what is considered to be western civilization.

 

Which is why generalizations are bad, and why it's always important to use clarifies like "where I live" or "from my experience" when making any type of generalized statement.

 

Can I assume you live somewhere close to a coastal region?

[SerCambria358]

Have you seen the full photo?

I realized that but other concepts and the comic have similar designs. Eh its one of those things only time will tell really, because the qunari male had pants on with no shirt, which was the outfit of choice in DA2

[Banxey]

"Shirtless men are considered normal by Western society"

 

I live in what is considered to be western civilization and I don't think people walking around shirtless are normal. True I won't bust out my phone and take a pic but I'm certainly going to either think "Look at this ******* showing off" or "What happened to his shirt?"

 

It might be a climate thing. I see men without shirts every morning when I go for a run (I'm in Australia, near the coast). That said, I only occasionally see a few in the supermarket and when I do I think "Ew. Put some clothes on."

[Cainhurst Crow]

I live in Washington state, near the idaho border, and most people don't even take their shirts off to swim (because the river and lake water feels like ice).

[Divine Justinia V]

I realized that but other concepts and the comic have similar designs. Eh its one of those things only time will tell really, because the qunari male had pants on with no shirt, which was the outfit of choice in DA2

 

True, very true. I just, idk, I feel like BioWare wouldn't have something like as an option for a medieval game when you need robes and armor and stuff, you know? I get that Qunari are shirtless and stuff, but I don't know! Just my own opinion

[Brass_Buckles]

Again, im sorry but you're making a sweeping generalization based on the few females you know that dont find the large muscled up type, to be attractive. You cant make that type of assumption based on your own perception, ignoring everyone else's view.

 

Again, most of the female fans have always congregated around Alistair and Zevran, not Sten.  Fact.  And I continually say "most women," not "all women."  Studies have been done that prove me right in that regard.  If I said "all women," you might have a case.

 

And I also point out that we don't usually consider shirtless men sexualized in the Western world; in other countries anyone wearing anything less than full coverage is scandalous.  And in still others, people wander around naked and it's fine.  So simply being shirtless with absolutely no other things, doesn't make a male form sexualized.  We don't get the same camera angles.  We don't get the same tight clothing to show off his behind and his male assets.  He's never presented as an object to ogle.  So if shirtless qunari make you uncomfortable, that's your issue, not mine.  I think it would make more sense to have them in armor, too, but I'm not a developer.  Regardless of that:  It's not. The. Same.  Period.

 

I think you might understand that a bit more if you were a woman who'd dealt with this issue in every single game you'd ever played.  Guys deal with something they remotely think is a sexy guy, once, and they wig out.  Women have to walk on eggshells if we complain we don't want to see nearly-naked ladies because guys get furious with us when we do.  But a shirtless man is not the same as a nearly-shirtless woman due to society generally thinking it's okay for a guy to wear no shirt but not for a woman to go around in public wearing skimpy clothing.  Do I think that's right?  No.  But that's the way things are.

 

And it isn't just a "few females" I know who don't think that beefed up look is attractive.  In real life I know of one person who finds it attractive.  Obviously there will be more online than in real life because there are more people online than I know in real life.  I've been on these forums for a long time.  There was a Sten thread where ladies gushed over him.  But more people thought Zevran (whom I do not find very attractive either) was hot than thought Sten or the other qunari was sexy.  So I maintain, most of us do not find qunari attractive.  Does it mean they can't be sexualized?  No.  Are they sexualized anywhere near the extent that the females in the game can be (and often are)?  Definitely not.

 

A shirtless man regardless of his physique is about on par with a woman showing slight cleavage or her midriff, in terms of how society reacts.  Might be sexy or might be offputting depending on the viewer, but it's not like a woman walking around in a single bolt of cloth barely covering her breasts, in Morrigan's case.  Or a long, super low-necked shirt with no pants, in Isabella's case.  Nor is it on par with the Isabella animation specifically designed so that she flashes her butt whenever she attacks.

 

You see, I'm okay with things being Kinda-Sexy, and I'm okay with characters having attractive physiques, but it's the overboard stuff like the barely-clothed thing, and the animated-to-show-off-their-assets thing, and the slow-mo-camera-focused-on-boobs-and-butts-even-when-the-player-is-female-and-romancing-a-male-and-therefore-probably-not-into-that thing, that make it unequal.  So no, a shirtless group of qunari is not a double standard whether people find them attractive or not.  When they start panning to the Arishok's crotch when you enter his dialogue selection, then we'll talk about oversexualized males.  Because frankly none of that is necessary and the people interested in these characters' assets are gonna notice even if you don't use every trick you know to show them off.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Can't this same argument be applied to the female qunari though? Some men don't find skinny, big breasted, women who partially show off their boobs to be attractive, therefore it isn't sexist to make them fit that particular ideal of what is sexy?

The argument could be applied to the female qunari.

"Attractive" is subjective.

Each gender isn't a creepy hive-mind who all think alike. Thank the Maker, that would be weird.

[SerCambria358]

True, very true. I just, idk, I feel like BioWare wouldn't have something like as an option for a medieval game when you need robes and armor and stuff, you know? I get that Qunari are shirtless and stuff, but I don't know! Just my own opinion

True, what i'd like is a distinction of cultures when it comes to tal-vashoth and Qunari. I want to see the difference in their clothing, if we ever go to par vollen, its going to be a hell of an experience. Speaking of vashoth's is the symbol on this qunari's head a vashoth symbol?

Notice the symbol on the left and right

[Tcab96]

Well now we're at an impasse called real life. What is normal for one part of the world is abnormal for another, both of which can be assumed to live in what is considered to be western civilization.
 
Which is why generalizations are bad, and why it's always important to use clarifies like "where I live" or "from my experience" when making any type of generalized statement.
 
Can I assume you live somewhere close to a coastal region?

I presumed all that can be inferred by common sense. The different experiences, I mean, not the generalizations.

Yes, you can.

[Cainhurst Crow]

The argument could be applied to the female qunari.

"Attractive" is subjective.

Each gender isn't a creepy hive-mind who all think alike. Thank the Maker, that would be weird.

 

Fair enough. I'm just tired of everyone accusing every guy of sexism and sexist designs and then turn around and say how shirtless men don't count cause not every girl finds that hot.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I presumed all that can be inferred by common sense. The different experiences, I mean, not the generalizations.

Yes, you can.

 

I hope you're having better weather then us inlanders.

[Divine Justinia V]

True, what i'd like is a distinction of cultures when it comes to tal-vashoth and Qunari. I want to see the difference in their clothing, if we ever go to par vollen, its going to be a hell of an experience. Speaking of vashoth's is the symbol on this qunari's head a vashoth symbol?

*snip*

Notice the symbol on the left and right

 

I agree, I think it'd be awesome to see that. It's really exciting to me that we'll be able to see a whole other side to the Qunari culture, because in DA:O & DA2 it was very similar.

and yes, I see what you mean about the symbols. I wonder if Vashoth has their own emblem?