300 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

No Shepard is not my own character. They are pre-written to a greater or lesser degree. For example, any character I created would be asking Miranda a million questions about Lazarus and introspecting way before Cronos. Instead we get cheesy one liners. It's also the start of Shepard being innately special instead of a highly-skilled officer who is still relatively ordinary.

[wright1978]

I suspect what she means is she hates the derpworthy dialogue and actions Shepard must sometimes take, despite being "our" character.  Things like not giving Cerberus' space magicky Cure for Death a second thought.

I treat it no differently to the background stuff. I don't get to reference my character's spacer past or his time on Elysium but I appreciate them as hooks to hang my characterisation off. I really appreciated that curve ball of Shep's rebirth and sitting down and working out how the character I was role playing was internally dealing with it.

[AlanC9]

I don't see either death is necessary, tbh.  Though I'm curious as to why you think it's the second death and not the first that's the problem.

Well, the second death is definitely not necessary, since it doesn't happen all the time.

The death in ME2 was pointless because it's undone 30 seconds later. If you're gonna kill someone, kill him for real.

[Barquiel]

I suspect what she means is she hates the derpworthy dialogue and actions Shepard must sometimes take, despite being "our" character.  Things like not giving Cerberus' space magicky Cure for Death a second thought.

 

I think the cutscene where Shepard is watching the video entries about the Lazarus Project while at Cronos station (I had Liara as my second squadmate, but I suppose the other squadmates have unique dialogue as well) was well done...even though Shepards doubts came out of nowhere, of course.

As for the ending, the survival of Shepard in the destroy ending is a nice bonus (at least I can headcanon that Shepard and her love interest will be together again), but not the main point. Being forced to sacrifice either Shepard or the squadmate with the highest relationship (usually the love interest, I guess) wouldn't change much, it would just made the ending more depressing. Liara becoming the new galactic overlord would be somewhat funny though...

[Astrogenesis]

When I played the game the first time I had no idea that Shepard would survive the Destroy ending, yet I chose it. It was 3:10 a.m., and I just wanted them dead. It actually was a surprise to me that Shepard survived at that point. Still everything about the ending felt wrong even though there was only the loss of EDI. It just felt empty. I watched the others on Youtube. They were the same except Shepard died.

Ha!

I had exactly the same experience, a long string of late nights, culminating in the final night were I finally beat the game at 3am.

I picked destroy, and died as my EMS was low. I went to bed feeling dazed and confused, thinking I had received the bad ending for not trying hard enough to earn EMS. 

 

After the EC ending, I pick Control, even as my Paragon Shep. I can't bring myself to kill EDI and let Legion's sacrifice be in vain. But I also can't let the abomination that is Synthesis ruin the universe I have spent 90+ hours trying to save. In Controle, everybody lives, even Shepard does in a weird way.

[CrutchCricket]

No Shepard is not my own character. They are pre-written to a greater or lesser degree. For example, any character I created would be asking Miranda a million questions about Lazarus and introspecting way before Cronos. Instead we get cheesy one liners. It's also the start of Shepard being innately special instead of a highly-skilled officer who is still relatively ordinary.

 

It's not the start, it's merely a symptom. It's an expression, the largest perhaps, of idealizing Shepard because of their actions in the first game. Most of the NPCs don't know Shepard was resurrected. Yet they are awed nonetheless.

 

And all PCs are pre-written, regardless of the apparent freedom some provide. I could just as easily say that any character I create wouldn't be interested in fighting the Reapers and would only want to live it up while they still have time. But that's not an option the game allows for.

 

Some game decisions are dumb, granted. You can criticize them all you like. But writing off the protagonist, a character you're still supposed to have some agency shaping, despite the sometimes annoying restrictions, doesn't make sense and begs the question: why do you continue interacting with the game at all?

[KLGChaos]

I'm not sure if having a chance for Shep to live is a mistake, but it definitely does make the Destroy ending extremely appealing to players who didn't care for synthetics. It basically has NO consequences for those who decided to wipe out the Geth, while punishing those who made peace.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Breathe scene was and still is a terrible mistake. 

 

I don't agree with the nihilistic endings where death is certain for the hero in order to bring peace to the galaxy, but stick with it if that is what you are going for. For them to include a Breathe scene, teasing fans on without any intent on providing closure or clarification is just bad. Bad planning, bad writing, bad design.

 

Because now you have countless fans who think Bioware is going to revisit Shephard's story and anything short of that is going to be a betrayal of what the scene "promised." It fed into the madness that was the Indoctrination Theory, as the fact that the idea of Shephard re-entering from space in nothing but a suit that can be pierced by bullets (and, therefore, completely unequipped to withstand the G-force and intense heat of atmospheric re-entry, let alone collision with the planet) and being anymore intact than a pile of ash, let alone alive enough to breathe, is ludicrous. 

 

 

So yes, the Breathe scene was a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE mistake. Add on the required MP to get it and you've got a nice big bowl of stupid stew that Bioware was serving its fans... and taking extra helpings of themselves.

[AlanC9]

Because now you have countless fans who think Bioware is going to revisit Shephard's story and anything short of that is going to be a betrayal of what the scene "promised." It fed into the madness that was the Indoctrination Theory, as the fact that the idea of Shephard re-entering from space in nothing but a suit that can be pierced by bullets (and, therefore, completely unequipped to withstand the G-force and intense heat of atmospheric re-entry, let alone collision with the planet) and being anymore intact than a pile of ash, let alone alive enough to breathe, is ludicrous. 

As usual, I'll nitpick that whether there would be any kind of fiery re-entry depends on Shepard's velocity relative to the planet. If he's at rest or nearly so when he starts his fall, his terminal velocity would be something under 200 MPH.

[von uber]

Doesn't that assume the breath scene is on Earth though (which makes no sense unless the spectre of IT raises its head)?

[Fast Jimmy]

As usual, I'll nitpick that whether there would be any kind of fiery re-entry depends on Shepard's velocity relative to the planet. If he's at rest or nearly so when he starts his fall, his terminal velocity would be something under 200 MPH.

 

How could he possibly be at rest? The Citadel wasn't even directly in Earth's orbit. If Shephard's suit allowed him to die in ME2's intro due to being exposed to the vacuum of space, then I fail to see how Shephard could move from the Citadel to Earth's surface in time to prevent death from lack of oxygen and space deep freeze without him moving at a very high trajectory (which one would expect, given that the Crucible chamber explodes violently).

 

Doesn't that assume the breath scene is on Earth though (which makes no sense unless the spectre of IT raises its head)?

 

Well, it certainly isn't on the Citadel. The scene has rock and dirt like a terrestrial planet would... not to mention the beam in the background, which is used to enter the Citadel. So you're right - it makes no sense. 

[von uber]

Really? Didn't look like that to me.

[Mcfly616]

Oh man....are we really back to this?

[AlanC9]

Oh, wait... we're talking about Shepard hitting the ground in ME3?

[Han Shot First]

I think one version of Destroy needed to have Shepard survive because Destroy also comes packaged with some fairly large negative consequences: the death of EDI and the destruction of the Geth. 

 

If Shepard could survive all endings than those consequences for Destroy would also need to be dropped IMO, otherwise the deck would be stacked too heavily against it. Its bad enough already that the writers tried to present Synthesis as the best outcome.

[AlexMBrennan]

First decide how you want the Crucible to fire. Then decide who presses the button/shoots the tube/etc.

IMHO that would be worse since you'd be *adding* an additional but utterly stupid choice:

1) Do you believe the Reaper when he claims that the Reapers are really the good guys? If so, pick Synthesis else Destroy

2) Would you prefer to murder your closest friend or have the hero make a heroic sacrifice? 

 

Frankly, there is no point in accommodating those who make decisions based on metagaming knowledge much like there's no point in trying to work around readers jumping to the last chapter of your book to see who survives - if you absolutely want to spoil your experience you'll find a way. 

[noobcannon]

nope was not a mistake.

[KaiserShep]

Well, it certainly isn't on the Citadel. The scene has rock and dirt like a terrestrial planet would... not to mention the beam in the background, which is used to enter the Citadel. So you're right - it makes no sense. 

 

It is on the Citadel. You can see a portion of the base of the power conduit Shepard shoots at as the view pans over to show the N7 tag. The rubble is clearly that of an artificial structure, not bits of earth. There is no beam in the background. If the Citadel fired, how would there even be a beam anymore? That's crossing over into IT, and needless to say no one needs that.

[KLGChaos]

I think one version of Destroy needed to have Shepard survive because Destroy also comes packaged with some fairly large negative consequences: the death of EDI and the destruction of the Geth. 

 

If Shepard could survive all endings than those consequences for Destroy would also need to be dropped IMO, otherwise the deck would be stacked too heavily against it. Its bad enough already that the writers tried to present Synthesis as the best outcome.

 

That's only a large negative consequence if you were actually trying to make peace with the Geth. Many players didn't trust them in the first place and wiped them out, so for them there are no consequences whatsoever. Same with Control-- if you wanted a God Shep, there's no downside to it. That's why they fail in their effort to be bittersweet-- the consequences only target a certain type of player. Others had no real consequences to worry about.

[AlanC9]

Sure, the choice is uninteresting for certain types of Shepards. But that's true for most choices, isn't it? Some Shepards will always find any particular choice easy.

I suppose one could contrive a choice that would be hard for all non-psychopath Shepards, though. The original Dark Energy choice would have come close, except that I don't think anyone would have bought into it as a real choice. Everyone would have just saved humanity in their canon playthroughs, secure in the knowledge that Bio would never actually make the harvesting of the human race into a necessary thing.

[crimzontearz]

Yes, as I Said MANY times it should have been tied to the player's decision but apparently this is not our story/character...it's Mac's

[von uber]

Given Shep's radio worked, why didn't she radio the Normandy to say "hang around - I'm about to truigger this thing and might need picking up."

[Wulfram]

I have more problems with the tying of the Geth's fate.  Particularly in such an offhand, barely acknowledged sort of way.  Shepard dying doesn't bother me too much

 

Shepard's death or survival suffers a bit from seeming arbitrary and tacked on, but so does a lot of the ending.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Given Shep's radio worked, why didn't she radio the Normandy to say "hang around - I'm about to trigger this thing and might need picking up."

Blood loss to the brain derp. She needed to pass out and go into a dream state so she could meet the architect... er... Catalyst.

 

@ Wulfram - that tie-in to the geth's fate secures the geth's fate at Rannoch. I get them out of the way early so I don't have to deal with them later. You can't trust synthetics, especially ones that have been doing nothing but shooting at you the entire time. What will they do after the war? I'm not going to wipe out the Quarians because of Gerrel.

[Massa FX]

double post.

Modifié par Massa FX, 04 mars 2014 - 08:38 .