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Was tying Shepard's survival to Destroy (or any ending) a mistake?


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#201
Nightdragon8

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I didn't pick Destroy because of Shep survival, I picked it cause really "Control" How can you honestly trust something that has been trying to kill you (I mean targeting) since ME2... The Green was honestly sounded like a bunch of space magic BS... also the whole, "Different races unite for a common goal" sort of story was much better than, get turned into organic robot hybrids, (AKA Reapers, because we learned in ME2 that in order to make a Reaper you need living tissue from living beings... ) So again it could just be a Indoctrination superbeam. 

 

So for me Destroy really was the only logical option... sure I felt sorry for the Geth, considering I brokered a peace between the Quarians and them. But really at that point how could you 'trust' your enemy to tell you the truth... (i know control and "Unity" endings are proper "good" endings its just how can you seriously trust what the star brat is saying)



#202
wolfhowwl

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You already trust the Catalyst that shooting a tube will somehow destroy the Reapers instead of just blowing up and killing only you or just doing nothing at all.

#203
SwobyJ

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Destroy - Realistic/Logical

Control - Hopeful/Theoretical

Synthesis - Optimistic/Inspirational*

 

*Shepard has no room to be pessimistic.



#204
CrutchCricket

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*sigh*

 

Even after all this time, "it's not Shepard it's a copy lololol"-ers will "it's not Shepard it's a copy lololol"

 

Check the sig.



#205
SwobyJ

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It's more philosophical than anything.

 

Every second in your brain, you're becoming a different person. Every few weeks, much of you replaces itself considerably.

The biggest factor here is that we define ourselves by our corporal forms - by our actions done in the body, experiencing viewing ourselves as an individual among many, rather than an individual who is an outright part of the many.

The body itself is, or at least ideally is sacred. Thoughts are meant to stay in the body. This is what Destroy seems to run with.

 

But there's a constant and growing belief and understanding (depending on the field and background of the person) that we are more than our bodies. That even, for example, doing a data copy of the organic brain into a synthetic brain, when done properly enough, is as though it was actually a transfer, and that when it comes at least to the individual's 'mind', no one died except the corporal form.

The body, in this case, is a machine, while thoughts are still sacred. This is what Control seems to run with.

 

And beyond that, there's another belief or speculation that is around in both spiritualists and scientists, that beyond our thoughts, we are just signals and data in the scheme of the greater cosmos and the matter in it. In this sense, one could for example die, but live on in virtuality as though they never died. Or that they could be placed into the minds of every person. Or that they would no longer be an individual entity, but an essence that travels everywhere

The body, in this case, is an outright illusion. Thoughts are too, but serve a purpose as a tool. In the end, we are the 'data' of the universe. This is what Synthesis seems to run with.

 

~~~

 

If you go with the first one, you probably don't see Shepalyst as Shepard, but only a copy, and an imperfect one at that.

If you go with the second one, you probably see Shepalyst as Shepard, but a new form for his mind, one which sacrificed his organic body.

If you go with the third one, you probably see Shepalyst as Shepard, but just in another step of his existence in the universe - a journey that is ongoing.

 

I waffle between the first and second. The third one isn't relevant enough for me in the plot to care, and even the thematic/symbolic content that may allude to it (Thane in ME2-ME3 especially the romance, Legion in ME3 Peace or Geth, Mordin in ME3 Cure, various other things) is, well, too thematic/symbolic (and optional) than something attached to a plot I should care more about.

 

So yeah, I see Shepalyst as 'Pretty much Shepard, but not the one we knew, and not the entity we'd call the Commander'.



#206
Giga Drill BREAKER

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I feel like Shepard should have died, but that would not stop me from chosing destroy no price is too high to be rid of the Reapers and the Catalyst.

#207
AlanC9

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I didn't pick Destroy because of Shep survival, I picked it cause really "Control" How can you honestly trust something that has been trying to kill you (I mean targeting) since ME2...


If you can't trust that Control works, how can you trust that Destroy works?

#208
Argolas

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If you can't trust that Control works, how can you trust that Destroy works?

 

You can't. That's how it is when you are at the mercy of the villain.


  • Iakus aime ceci

#209
AlanC9

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If you like. But if that's the way you're thinking then you should Refuse.

#210
Argolas

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Refuse is the choice that fits with my Shepard most, 'tis true.



#211
Iakus

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If you like. But if that's the way you're thinking then you should Refuse.

 

Except of course Bioware punishes you for that and not lapping up every word the Catalyst says as Veritas



#212
Mcfly616

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Except, the Catalyst and Reapers are both completely at your mercy....


Go ahead and pick refuse if you dont care about anybody but yourself.

#213
ImaginaryMatter

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Except, the Catalyst and Reapers are both completely at your mercy....


Go ahead and pick refuse if you dont care about anybody but yourself.

 

I thought they were talking about trusting the Catalyst, if you think it's deceptive Refuse really is the only option you can go with. At face value the mechanical aspects of the ending choices seem counter intuitive to their stated function, Destroy is blowing up a fuel line, Control is running a jigawatt of space voltage through Shepard's body, and Synthesis is jumping into a giant laser beam.



#214
Argolas

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Yeah it was about mistrusting the villain. Knowing everything would work, I'd go for Destroy (Control without EC though).



#215
Mcfly616

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Ok....so go ahead and mistrust the Catalyst. Pick refuse.....and get everybody you know harvested and killed.

#216
Argolas

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So what if I told you that you can save a million lives by shooting yourself in the head? You know, just in case I wasn't lying you should do it.



#217
ImaginaryMatter

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Yeah it was about mistrusting the villain. Knowing everything would work, I'd go for Destroy (Control without EC though).

 

I always went for Control pre-EC as well. It was the only option that didn't apparently fry large portions of the galaxy, plus it allowed Shepard to destroy the Reapers (control them into the sun!) without sacrificing the Geth. Overall a fairly win-win option.



#218
Argolas

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I always went for Control pre-EC as well. It was the only option that didn't apparently fry large portions of the galaxy, plus it allowed Shepard to destroy the Reapers (control them into the sun!) without sacrificing the Geth. Overall a fairly win-win option.

 

My thoughts exactly. It was Destroy without casualties except Shepard herself. However the EC kinda forced me into Destroy when I have to decide with knowing the endings already.



#219
SwobyJ

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There is no spoon tube.

 



#220
wright1978

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If you can't trust that Control works, how can you trust that Destroy works?

 

Well you can hope shooting the pipe and the ensuing explosion might hurt the catalyst. That's the logic i used when i played the game without MEHEM as at least unlike refuse Shep tries to do something.



#221
teh DRUMPf!!

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So what if I told you that you can save a million lives by shooting yourself in the head? You know, just in case I wasn't lying you should do it.

 

I can actually form plenty of sound, logical rationale behind the believing the Catalyst's claim, unlike the one you're making here.

 

And association with friend- or enemy-groups really have no significant bearing on how such thought-processes go.

 

Believing the word of your enemy is not, in itself, foolish.



#222
cyrslash1974

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It's just my point of view, but I think we needed an ending where Shep survives. Shep is - for a lot of players, including myself - like an investment, and one Shep played (often the first we created) is a "part of us",  in particular for people who have started the adventure in 2007 with ME1.   



#223
von uber

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Who actually built the decision chamber anyway. It's on the citadel and not part of the crucible.

Also why didn't the catalyst just empty all the oxygen out of the chamber, let shep suffocate and continue the harvest?

#224
AlanC9

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Also why didn't the catalyst just empty all the oxygen out of the chamber, let shep suffocate and continue the harvest?


For the same reason he didn't just leave Shepard lying there with no clue what to do?

#225
AlanC9

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Well you can hope shooting the pipe and the ensuing explosion might hurt the catalyst. That's the logic i used when i played the game without MEHEM as at least unlike refuse Shep tries to do something.


Is that logic, or metagaming justified by wishful thinking?