Exactly, it's a tool, it can't be good or bad. Magic doesn't kill people, people do.
Sadly that isn't entirely true. Magic does indeed kill people. Magic in the form of demons and spirit constantly endanger mages, and these mages in turn endagner people. If only intent were the important factor there wouldn't even be a problem in the first place.
Exactly, it's a tool, it can't be good or bad. Magic doesn't kill people, people do.
They use it as a last resort, not to light the torches as PC does. Even if accepted, it should be a last resort for a person in Inquisitor's seat.
Hmm, simple way to handle it - is to make general spells unusable, while BM mode is active, and make BM spelltree more devastating.
Modifié par renfrees, 03 mars 2014 - 12:28 .
Blood magic is magic like any other. It can be used both for the greater good or to commit atrocities.
Blood magic is magic like any other. It can be used both for the greater good or to commit atrocities.
It is not. It tears the Veil. Your main goal as an Inquisitor is to seal the Veil, and you serve it by tearing it further? Sup?
I actually agree that it would be unwise for a member of the Inquisition to be a KNOWN bloodmage.
While it is true that it is not inherently evil, it has the greatest potential for corruption - after all there is
a reason all powerful and evil (or at least completely ruthless) mages use it if they can.
And even if you just compare it to a gun, remember that in most countrys weapon access is heavily restricted
-for good reasons, imho.
Another, even more important reason would be PR. It doesn't matter if blood magic is evil, if most of
the people deem it such. The chantry forbids it (including Tevinter mind you), the dalish and many within the circle
frown upon it. And the vast majority of "normal" people are afraid of it.
Remember the keep dlc, when Levi Dryden realises that his ancestor told Avernus to use bloodmagic.
He was saddened that she did it, because it is evil.
The Grey Wardens? They don't care. They allow everything as long at it works against the Darkspawn.
They take murderers and traitors in their ranks if they are deemed competent. The Grey Wardens are, to
say it in ME words" completely Renegade.
very high hp for mana efficiency. in both DA 1 and 2 you could cast a lot more spells if you had bloodmagic not to mention that BM had 2 of the most powerful spells in the game.
I would not be opposed to the direction. All choices come with a price, and it doesn't get darker than blood magic.I'd love to see BM-specific responses from NPCs in the order of "Heavens, it's the evil master of evil nooooooooo!" Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea.
Well, I scanned the lore a bit, it's hard to tell if performing that spell once would legitimately lock you out of it permanently. I suppose BioWare could say "Yes, because it's game logic for balancing purposes". I dunno.
Lore wise, there's no contradiction between using healing and using blood magic. The Grey Wardens who use blood magic and apostates like Merrill also show that blood mages are different, and can be good people. I'd rather see reactivity towards magic in the narrative than have artificially imposed limitations for "balancing purposes".
I absolutely agree with this. The game should be about what the character does, not what he/she is.
Personally, I would love it if they expanded the benefits and detriments to using blood magic. The spells should increase in potency and be more powerful than could otherwise be acquired. On the flip side, yes, the detriments should be equally harsh to compensate. Would love to see, tougher demons break the veil around your mage, or the mage will have to fight off some possession attempts. Not being able to heal naturally would also be a good trade-off. It should also affect how your companions view you.
The more unique and distinct they can make it the better IMO. In the previous games, I always had to headcanon that you secretly used some form of "stealth" blood-magic. That would explain why no one cared if you were using it and why you couldn't ever display any REAL power that we saw other blood mages using in the game.
Personally, I would love it if they expanded the benefits and detriments to using blood magic. The spells should increase in potency and be more powerful than could otherwise be acquired. On the flip side, yes, the detriments should be equally harsh to compensate. Would love to see, tougher demons break the veil around your mage, or the mage will have to fight off some possession attempts. Not being able to heal naturally would also be a good trade-off. It should also affect how your companions view you.
The more unique and distinct they can make it the better IMO. In the previous games, I always had to headcanon that you secretly used some form of "stealth" blood-magic. That would explain why no one cared if you were using it and why you couldn't ever display any REAL power that we saw other blood mages using in the game.
Neither of those detriments would happen unless the PC was actively summoning demons.
I have always been of the opinion that while BM should be in some ways an op magical class, it should also have some serious risks involved in it. Especially if you are willing to pursue it entirely in a maximum power type of spec. Such as on the skill tree you have skills that allow you to resist the temptation better, resist demons, etc, but you also have the offensive skills and in order to totally max your offensive ability you can't take any of the resistance skills and thereby you become extremely powerful but are at a much greater risk/threat to yourself and others. Imagine the risk reward that would be involved in having a party with multiple maximum offensive BMs, if things go badly in a battle you could get destroyed by your own allies, whereas as long as things go your way, there would be few encounters that could match you. I also think BM should be a class that you have to discover either from an apostate or a demon. Maybe you meet a demon early on who will do it for a price, but if you wait till later in the game you can learn it from someone else.
I don't see it happening though, just as I don't see some of the other lore aspects that might be inconvenient being used. I mean seriously is it that hard to ask a mage to throw on a cloak or something to cover the fact that they are an apostate?
I absolutely agree with this. The game should be about what the character does, not what he/she is.
In the game, people are judged because of what they are. So, this would be pretty accurate.
There are few times where people are actually judged by what they do.
Neither of those detriments would happen unless the PC was actively summoning demons.
Xil,
We have had this argument before, just because the gameplay hasn't reflected it, doesn't mean the lore about blood magic attracting demons isn't true. They haven't implemented it in game design because they haven't found a way to develope it without gimping the class, but blood magic does attract demons to mages. They still have to cross the viel, but guess what, sense blood magic weakens the viel it makes that easier too. Just consider the anectdotal evidence that most abominations we have met in game have a connection to blood magic/blood mages.
I absolutely agree with this. The game should be about what the character does, not what he/she is.
Really? In a game world that a lot of the issues that provide depth to the world come from the lore about being Dalish or Mage or Blood Mage or Kossith or Dwarven etc you think that should be ignored and the story should expect the largely uneducated people of Thedas to judge soley on what someone does??
Xil,
We have had this argument before, just because the gameplay hasn't reflected it, doesn't mean the lore about blood magic attracting demons isn't true. They haven't implemented it in game design because they haven't found a way to develope it without gimping the class, but blood magic does attract demons to mages. They still have to cross the viel, but guess what, sense blood magic weakens the viel it makes that easier too. Just consider the anectdotal evidence that most abominations we have met in game have a connection to blood magic/blood mages.
Great. We'll see if this speculation is ever actually proven, as opposed to being a misinterpretation of the fact that blood magic can be used to deliberately weaken the Veil.
Also, since the vast majority of abominations we've seen have come out of demon summoning problems, that's neither surprising nor detrimental to my point (and of the two who spontaneously transformed in cutscenes in DA2, neither was a blood mage; Connor was also not a blood mage in DAO).
Really? In a game world that a lot of the issues that provide depth to the world come from the lore about being Dalish or Mage or Blood Mage or Kossith or Dwarven etc you think that should be ignored and the story should expect the largely uneducated people of Thedas to judge soley on what someone does??
Most of the uneducated people won't be able to do much aside from form into mook mobs and fail to kill you.
With great reservatioin, the op was wanting to discuss how the game affects could be improved with fleshing out of being a blood mage, I really don't want to steer us off course with bringing this discussion back up:
However, bloodmagic is different than other magics. It has a degree of temptaion involved in it. Tempting the user to use the blood of other to fuel their magic, in the same way Mages can be tempted and I imagine addicted to using lyrium to increase the power of their magic.
Saying blood magic is the same as other magic, is like saying drinking alcohol is the same as drinking water. There is a much larger temptation for evil that is involved with BM than traditional magic.
I absolutely agree with this. The game should be about what the character does, not what he/she is.
Great. We'll see if this speculation is ever actually proven, as opposed to being a misinterpretation of the fact that blood magic can be used to deliberately weaken the Veil.
Also, since the vast majority of abominations we've seen have come out of demon summoning problems, that's neither surprising nor detrimental to my point (and of the two who spontaneously transformed in cutscenes in DA2, neither was a blood mage; Connor was also not a blood mage in DAO).
Most of the uneducated people won't be able to do much aside from form into mook mobs and fail to kill you.
I agree that the uneducated masses wouldn't be a threat, however, I would expect the nobles/powers that be to react to it, and if they have any character depth at all that fits with the world, react strongly to it.
Connor was taught by a blood mage though, coincidence...maybe....granted it is based on interpretation of lore and events, but as demons are naturally attracted to mages when they dream if nothing else, the point is largely probably moot.
With great reservatioin, the op was wanting to discuss how the game affects could be improved with fleshing out of being a blood mage, I really don't want to steer us off course with bringing this discussion back up:
However, bloodmagic is different than other magics. It has a degree of temptaion involved in it. Tempting the user to use the blood of other to fuel their magic, in the same way Mages can be tempted and I imagine addicted to using lyrium to increase the power of their magic.
Saying blood magic is the same as other magic, is like saying drinking alcohol is the same as drinking water. There is a much larger temptation for evil that is involved with BM than traditional magic.
Your analogy works, but not in the way you think. Drinking alcohol is not identical to drinking water, true; however, using it in moderation is harmless, and can even be healthy at times. It also doesn't make you evil by drinking it.
I agree that the uneducated masses wouldn't be a threat, however, I would expect the nobles/powers that be to react to it, and if they have any character depth at all that fits with the world, react strongly to it.
Connor was taught by a blood mage though, coincidence...maybe....granted it is based on interpretation of lore and events, but as demons are naturally attracted to mages when they dream if nothing else, the point is largely probably moot.
Attracted, but can't pierce the Veil unless a mage invites them in or there are other circumstances. As for nobles and such, why would you use blood magic in front of them?
Your analogy works, but not in the way you think. Drinking alcohol is not identical to drinking water, true; however, using it in moderation is harmless, and can even be healthy at times. It also doesn't make you evil by drinking it.
Attracted, but can't pierce the Veil unless a mage invites them in or there are other circumstances. As for nobles and such, why would you use blood magic in front of them?
But that is where the human element comes in. Some are incapable of using alcohol in moderation. The lore in WoT seems to indicate that BM addiction applies to all and this jives with the general view on lore of BM outside of gameplay.
Considering demons are able to possess mages in their dreams or without piercing the viel at all-Connor. Also, I would imagine the inquisitor using blood magic would be of note and nobles and such would hear about it, or do you just plan on killing everyone who ever see you use blood magic in battle?
It is not. It tears the Veil. Your main goal as an Inquisitor is to seal the Veil, and you serve it by tearing it further? Sup?
Well to be fair, avernus was a blood mage who sealed a tear in the veil. So it can be done.
Whether blood magic was sued to seal the veil, or if blood magic allows the user to manipulate the veil in such a way as to open or close tears is another matter entirely.
But that is where the human element comes in. Some are incapable of using alcohol in moderation. The lore in WoT seems to indicate that BM addiction applies to all and this jives with the general view on lore of BM outside of gameplay.
Considering demons are able to possess mages in their dreams or without piercing the viel at all-Connor. Also, I would imagine the inquisitor using blood magic would be of note and nobles and such would hear about it, or do you just plan on killing everyone who ever see you use blood magic in battle?
Connor invited the demon in. As for blood magic, some might be incapable of using it in moderation; others will not (also, blood magic's addiction seems to be wholly psychological). Hence, it should be regulated, not receiving a blanket ban. And I would not use blood magic in front of those whom I don't aim to kill yes (apart from my party, who are either trustworthy or fall into the "aim to kill" category).
Xil,
We have had this argument before, just because the gameplay hasn't reflected it, doesn't mean the lore about blood magic attracting demons isn't true. They haven't implemented it in game design because they haven't found a way to develope it without gimping the class, but blood magic does attract demons to mages. They still have to cross the viel, but guess what, sense blood magic weakens the viel it makes that easier too. Just consider the anectdotal evidence that most abominations we have met in game have a connection to blood magic/blood mages.
...I am interested in seeing the passage, either in codex or in the WOT, that says blood magic inherently attracts demons. It can summon them, that is stated in the codex, but it has to be done as a conscious act by the mage. Tempting to do in desperate times for sure, like tossing out a hand grenade, in which you summon the demon and run like hell while it fights your opponents for you. But I don't see how demons are attracted to blood mages any more then they are to normal mages.
To be honest this starts us off onto dangerous territory if we start dictating harsher gameplay effects onto a class due to what it should be rather then what it is. Should we make bezerkers have friendly fire enabled for their abilities? Should spirit healers be forced to pick only paragon-esqe choices or else be punished with stat reductions? It's a slippery slope to me to single out one class, pile on a bunch of negatives (Always active blood magic, no healing effects work, etc), even If it contradicts lore, offer no benefits, and then tell people it's being fair.
To be honest this starts us off onto dangerous territory if we start dictating harsher gameplay effects onto a class due to what it should be rather then what it is. Should we make bezerkers have friendly fire enabled for their abilities? Should spirit healers be forced to pick only paragon-esqe choices or else be punished with stat reductions? It's a slippery slope to me to single out one class, pile on a bunch of negatives (Always active blood magic, no healing effects work, etc), even If it contradicts lore, offer no benefits, and then tell people it's being fair.
Retour en haut