227 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

I was referring more to the constant "We should throw this negative on there as well" posts that were clogging up the thread, making up the majority of the conversation going on here. I don't particularly care for blood magic, I find its reduction on healing effects and damaging my companions for health detrimental to my fast and loose playstyle and the magic I can preform with blood magic not worth the bang for the buck. But I am weary of looking at a class I don't particularly care for and start slashing and burning at it as a general rule, because I lack the investment that other players may have for that class.

 

Sorry if my post don't agree with you but I take hypotheticals very seriously and argue as if they were real, as to give them hypothetical proposed the respect and treatment it asks for in having me consider the ideas put forth.

[Roninbarista]

I was referring more to the constant "We should throw this negative on there as well" posts that were clogging up the thread, making up the majority of the conversation going on here. I don't particularly care for blood magic, I find its reduction on healing effects and damaging my companions for health detrimental to my fast and loose playstyle and the magic I can preform with blood magic not worth the bang for the buck. But I am weary of looking at a class I don't particularly care for and start slashing and burning at it as a general rule, because I lack the investment that other players may have for that class.
 
Sorry if my post don't agree with you but I take hypotheticals very seriously and argue as if they were real, as to give them hypothetical proposed the respect and treatment it asks for in having me consider the ideas put forth.

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with a post. In fact, that's a healthy part of discussion. I reinterate my points because it's worth repeating. Taking a hypothetical post serious or not doesn't make anyone unable to discuss material provided everyone understands it has no bearing on the game, and stays civil.

[wcholcombe]

I don't have a source for it. It comes from something I read by Gaider and company prior to DAO first coming out. It makes sense to me though that if demons are naturally attracted to mages, which they are, than they would be attracted to those who can weaken the veil.  Also through in the fact how happy demons seem to be to teach BM and it makes sense to me.

 

I wasn't actually arguing for the weakening of BM.  Quite the opposite, my idea would make BMs practically op, but they would also entail a dangerous risk/tradeoff for that.

[Xilizhra]

I don't have a source for it.

Excellent, so now we can proceed.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Well it all depends on what someone would consider to be OP. I consider endurance and longevity to be more symptomatic of being OP then a high yield, low health, damager.

 

For instance I would consider someone whose ability let them tank against dragons with ease but being stuck with tier 1 weapons, armor, and abilities, then I would someone who could one hit kill a dragon, but couldn't take an arrow or a single attack without keeling over dead.

 

It's all about personal perspective I suppose, so seeing a high damaging character that has no ability for healing outside of draining companions, who I assume will also be dead from the blood mages own attacks, to be a very bad design choice for characters. And would rather have blood magic for the PC be damage nerfed in exchange for better healing opportunities that were much more sustainable to party tactics, which i'll need to keep my characters health as high as possible and safe from enemy attacks.

[wcholcombe]

Well it all depends on what someone would consider to be OP. I consider endurance and longevity to be more symptomatic of being OP then a high yield, low health, damager.

 

For instance I would consider someone whose ability let them tank against dragons with ease but being stuck with tier 1 weapons, armor, and abilities, then I would someone who could one hit kill a dragon, but couldn't take an arrow or a single attack without keeling over dead.

 

It's all about personal perspective I suppose, so seeing a high damaging character that has no ability for healing outside of draining companions, who I assume will also be dead from the blood mages own attacks, to be a very bad design choice for characters. And would rather have blood magic for the PC be damage nerfed in exchange for better healing opportunities that were much more sustainable to party tactics, which i'll need to keep my characters health as high as possible and safe from enemy attacks.

Well, if ya read my post, it is a little more complicated than that.

 

You want to be able to use bloodmagic to boil someone alive or mind control them in battle or summon demons or greatly boost the damage level or your spells, great.  You also depending on what skills you take to deal with temptation of demons and such have an x% chance of being possessed in battle or being overcome by your power demands and start using your allies life force for power.

[Xilizhra]

Well, if ya read my post, it is a little more complicated than that.

 

You want to be able to use bloodmagic to boil someone alive or mind control them in battle or summon demons or greatly boost the damage level or your spells, great.  You also depending on what skills you take to deal with temptation of demons and such have an x% chance of being possessed in battle or being overcome by your power demands and start using your allies life force for power.

Even if you handwave away the PC because of special snowflakeness, Merrill used blood magic for seven years and never had any of those issues. You're inventing a problem that doesn't exist, lorewise.

[Veruin]

Even if you handwave away the PC because of special snowflakeness, Merrill used blood magic for seven years and never had any of those issues. You're inventing a problem that doesn't exist, lorewise.

You're acting like companions don't have their own dose of special snowflake syndrome.

[Cainhurst Crow]

To be honest an ability I'd like as well, which has not been brought up yet, is to attack opponents with life draining abilities rather then my comrades, and use them to heal myself/heal my companions in battle. If I'm desperate enough I can use my companions but I shouldn't be forced to only be able to use them where there are other alternatives just standing out in the open. I'd say giving a bit of a resistance nerf while blood magic is active might do well so that the blood mage takes more damage from attacks in general, not like enough to be a glass cannon but enough to make the blood mages a bit cautious in battle as a talent that can get them easily killed.

 

Also the possession mechanic is a bad idea since there's no way to guarantee it's functionality. temptation by demons should either be in all mage players or none at all, otherwise, again, it's an unfair arbitrary penalty.  

[LobselVith8]

You're acting like companions don't have their own dose of special snowflake syndrome.

 

Duncan points out that some Grey Warden mages use blood magic to give them an edge against the darkspawn, and The Warden can point out to Dryden that blood magic isn't prohibited by the order. I don't think that Merrill is unqiue in being able to use blood magic proficiently for several years; Avernus was able to use it to live for centuries, after all.

[Cainhurst Crow]

You're acting like companions don't have their own dose of special snowflake syndrome.

 

Jowan didn't seem to be an evil, life sucking, monster driven by demonic temptation. Neither did Alain.

 

It seems more to do with the type of person you are, rather then the blood magic itself. Same goes for other mages who weren't blood mages but still became abominations when pushed to the brink.

[Veruin]

 

It seems more to do with the type of person you are, rather then the blood magic itself. Same goes for other mages who weren't blood mages but still became abominations when pushed to the brink.

 

 

That is my problem with it.  I don't think most people could handle it.  I have no problem with it being studied in "safe" areas.  But adopting a "live and let live" policy about it in the general population?  Not a chance.

[wcholcombe]

Even if you handwave away the PC because of special snowflakeness, Merrill used blood magic for seven years and never had any of those issues. You're inventing a problem that doesn't exist, lorewise.

Yes, and several blood mage badies become abominatioins and such.  Its called game mechanics.

 

And yes, Merril is a heroic character in the game, I don't expect her in the current mechanics to succumb.

[Cainhurst Crow]

That is my problem with it.  I don't think most people could handle it.  I have no problem with it being studied in "safe" areas.  But adopting a "live and let live" policy about it in the general population?  Not a chance.

 

Well of course, that would be like teaching everyone how to cast walking bomb or a death hex. Blood magic has earned its reputation as being dangerous by the abilities it opens up and its function of using life as a source of power. Also through the suggestion that there is a temptation to use it more often then one should, but that I feel is the same as Templars desires to have more lyrium to sate their cravings, it can be controlled with will.

 

Adding on the stuff about demons being more attracted to blood mages and the like, is the bit where it starts to become a stretch, as demons are attracted to all mages so there's no way to prove they're more so attracted to blood mages. Them tearing the veil is a valid concern, but saying that it just spontaneously happens with the blood mage standing around doing nothing is absurd. It requires an actual concentrated effort to do so, otherwise the magisters of tevinter wouldn't have needed so many slaves to do so, they'd have just crossed over by standing in a circle and waiting for a tear to appear.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, and several blood mage badies become abominatioins and such.  Its called game mechanics.

 

And yes, Merril is a heroic character in the game, I don't expect her in the current mechanics to succumb.

Good. Now, let's continue this, because I have a strong feeling that this desire is mostly about punishing blood mages lorewise, and many of their players IRL.

[wcholcombe]

Good. Now, let's continue this, because I have a strong feeling that this desire is mostly about punishing blood mages lorewise, and many of their players IRL.

Actually, again if you read my post, my idea adds more developement to the class and actually rewards the player for making some risky decisions.

 

Regarding having social consequences for being a blood mage in game?  That goes the same to me as if I played a Qunari Mage. I would expect to be somewhat reviled by people who know I am a blood mage, its good storytelling.

[wcholcombe]

Good. Now, let's continue this, because I have a strong feeling that this desire is mostly about punishing blood mages lorewise, and many of their players IRL.

And I said in the current mechanics. In my idea, merril would be a lot more powerful, but would also carry some of the risk of being a blood mage.  Otherwise, why don't we just get rid of Lyrium and let everyone cut open their wrist to cast magic if it such a harmless school of magic.

[Xilizhra]

Actually, again if you read my post, my idea adds more developement to the class and actually rewards the player for making some risky decisions.

 

Regarding having social consequences for being a blood mage in game?  That goes the same to me as if I played a Qunari Mage. I would expect to be somewhat reviled by people who know I am a blood mage, its good storytelling.

I have no issues with social consequences (although being a Vashoth blood mage might cancel one out), I was referring to the mechanical slaps in the face.

 

And I said in the current mechanics. In my idea, merril would be a lot more powerful, but would also carry some of the risk of being a blood mage.  Otherwise, why don't we just get rid of Lyrium and let everyone cut open their wrist to cast magic if it such a harmless school of magic.

I don't give a damn if Merrill isn't more powerful, I just don't want to be forced to do things I wasn't intending to do. Do not seek to control my character's actions.

[LobselVith8]

Good. Now, let's continue this, because I have a strong feeling that this desire is mostly about punishing blood mages lorewise, and many of their players IRL.

 

Which I would find odd, since the lore about blood magic suggests that it appeals to some mages because it's a school of magic that's tied to the physical plane, and not to the denizens of the Fade (or the Beyond): "Nothing inspires as much wild-eyed terror as the Blood Mage. Mages of this type take the raw energy of life and twist it to their own purposes. They can corrupt and control, and sustain their power by consuming the health of others, willing or not. The effects can be vile, but this specialization isn't limited to madmen and monsters. Many see it as the only form of magic that is truly free, because it's tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons."

[wcholcombe]

I have no issues with social consequences (although being a Vashoth blood mage might cancel one out), I was referring to the mechanical slaps in the face.

How is mine a slap in the face?  BM becomes the most powerful class in the game, but faces what I would consider some cool risks in order to achieve that level of power.  As I said if you want to limit your power a little by trading off to skills that help you resist possession and such that works to as it follows studying magic and such, or you could tie it in with a stat like willpower.  It definitley isn't a slap in the face.

[wcholcombe]

I have no issues with social consequences (although being a Vashoth blood mage might cancel one out), I was referring to the mechanical slaps in the face.

 

 

 

I don't give a damn if Merrill isn't more powerful, I just don't want to be forced to do things I wasn't intending to do. Do not seek to control my character's actions.

what would I be forcing you to do exactly......???

[The Baconer]

Well it all depends on what someone would consider to be OP. I consider endurance and longevity to be more symptomatic of being OP then a high yield, low health, damager.

 

If sustained powers will still use a percentage of mana instead of a hard number like in DA:O, Blood Magic will let you be both. 

[Xilizhra]

How is mine a slap in the face?  BM becomes the most powerful class in the game, but faces what I would consider some cool risks in order to achieve that level of power.  As I said if you want to limit your power a little by trading off to skills that help you resist possession and such that works to as it follows studying magic and such, or you could tie it in with a stat like willpower.  It definitley isn't a slap in the face.

As mentioned prior, I don't give a damn about your power spikes. And the only way these risks would make sense lorewise is if you started actually summoning demons in combat, which I doubt any PC would be stupid enough to do.

 

what would I be forcing you to do exactly......???

Drain life from companions.

[wcholcombe]

As mentioned prior, I don't give a damn about your power spikes. And the only way these risks would make sense lorewise is if you started actually summoning demons in combat, which I doubt any PC would be stupid enough to do.

 

 

Drain life from companions

Whatever, I think it is a good way to flesh out the BM character from what it currently is.  Currently as a PC it isn't even as fully fleshed out as it is for NPCs, but fine keep the spec booring and without any actual depth.