227 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

A whole bunch of Tevinter magisters live their whole lives being blood mages without it leading to something bad for them. 

[Hellion Rex]

A whole bunch of Tevinter magisters live their whole lives being blood mages without it leading to something bad for them. 

Partially cause they have had milennia of practice at it, something most Circle mages lack.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Also they have an understanding that this art is not a ****** game, in the words of the immortal dmx. They seem to treat blood magic with the upmost caution and don't see it as a means to generally be able to be used cost free.

 

Unless in the DA2 universe. Then they'll just wave it around willy nilly like some crazed lunatic with a gun.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wouldn't mind Blood Magic having the handicaps associated with it in the lore to be applicable in the game mechanics, just maker don't ask me how you would implement it .

 

Its supposed to be a strong forbidden school of magic that ultimately has just as strong strings and consequences attached to it.

[Roninbarista]

It should have some bonuses as well. Perhaps spells last longer, have stronger range or effect. Something that makes it worth the risk of using, when people are afraid of it.

I'm a bit confused by parts of the lore. In DA:O animating the dead was a spell any mage can use. In. DA: 2 raising the dead was considered a part of blood magic and a negative/ghastly aspect of the power.

[dragonflight288]

Partially cause they have had milennia of practice at it, something most Circle mages lack.

 

And a completely different approach to magic as a rule. 

 

And it's not just them...well, it is just them on blood magic, but it's not just them that seem to have a level of control over magic. It's only in White Chantry influenced areas that we hear any form of issues involvin magic. 

 

Now either it's because that's where we play and so have more information on these areas, or the mentality surrounding magic due to Andrastianism actually makes mages less safe. 

 

I think it's a mixture of both. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lotion, why do you have a raging hard on for trashing and gimping blood magic? And why do you insist it should be bound to a completely different ruleset then every other class in the game?

 

I don't. I just want to see mages done right by the lore.

 

I could ask you why you have such a raging hard on for empowering mages and presenting them in an idealized manner?

 

Why should mages have a "different" (the correct term would be additional) ruleset? Because they are different.

One-size-fits-all solutions have a tendency to suck.

 

I think the mentality goes "I hate mages and want them punished but I can't do that, so I'll go after a consolation prize of making one of their classes instead and get more support".

 

What about you?

You want to play a mage with all of the benefits, but none of the downsides.

 

I want to play a mage that fits the background lore. Frighteningly powerful, but with a cost.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Perhaps according to the lore, but this is a game at the end of the day. Trying to accommodate features just for the sake of realism doesn't mean it would be an improvement.

 

The opposite also holds true. It doesn't mean it would be worsening either.

 

 

In this case, no it isn't. The fact that almost no one would enjoy a feature like that is the reason it hasn't been already implemented, and won't be implemented later.

 

No one?

Please, provide the poll you have conducted.

Also, prove that the ONLY REASON any theoretical feature isn't in a game is because people wouldn't enjoy it.

 

 

2. Brave words from someone who would never play the class. I daresay that you should playtest it first before making such declarations.

 

I play mages too, so your point is moot.

 

Not saying that the mechanic is the greatest idea ever, but at least it's 1 more idea than you have.

 

Lets have a random dice roll every time we travel somewhere on the map of getting dysentery or pneumonia and dying. It's not inconvenient or railroading cause remember, chances are part of life and the players shouldn't have plot armor against automatic death.

 

I'd reckon that those are not automatic death... you can get treated.

[Xilizhra]

I don't. I just want to see mages done right by the lore.

But you don't. All your additions are based on headcanon and rumors that you want to be true.

 

You want to play a mage with all of the benefits, but none of the downsides.

What do you mean? They'd still have light armor and weak melee attacks, which have been their downsides up until now.

 

Not saying that the mechanic is the greatest idea ever, but at least it's 1 more idea than you have.

Maybe as a cost for summoning a bunch of demons, you're teleported to a Fade sequence where you have to solo a few of them before returning to the main fight, but that still seems like an unnecessary nuisance.

[Veruin]

But you don't. All your additions are based on headcanon and rumors that you want to be true.

 

 

They actually aren't.

 

You're confusing Lotion with yourself Xil.

[The Baconer]

No one?

Please, provide the poll you have conducted.

 

Sure, we can ask all the people planning on playing a Mage if they would enjoy having a random chance to die every time they cast a spell. Then ask them if they would enjoy it if this chance increased if they decided to spec Blood Mage.

I think we already know what the results would look like.

 

 

Also, prove that the ONLY REASON any theoretical feature isn't in a game is because people wouldn't enjoy it.

 

Ha ha, what? When did I ever say that?

[dragonflight288]

Sure, we can ask all the people planning on playing a Mage if they would enjoy having a random chance to die every time they cast a spell. Then ask them if they would enjoy it if this chance increased if they decided to spec Bloog Mage.

I think we already know what the results would look like.

 

 

 

That would just plain suck. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

If blood magic wasn't nerfed, I wouldn't mind pride demon spawn after failed "blood mage possession" test... or something more nasty (dying is excessive in this case). But it isn't more powerful than other tree/skills and it will never be again (in DAO it was, imho). Sadly, in DA2 mage became CC machine w/o even remote chance to solo the game on NM.

 

And I always play a mage. Why roll warrior/rogue if you can do that IRL... sort of

[The Baconer]

If blood magic wasn't nerfed, I wouldn't mind pride demon spawn after failed "blood mage possession" test... or something more nasty (dying is excessive in this case). But it isn't more powerful than other tree/skills and it will never be again (in DAO it was, imho). Sadly, in DA2 mage became CC machine w/o even remote chance to solo the game on NM.

 

In DA2 you could dump Willpower and go Constitution, and stack a bunch of defense buffs before activating Blood Magic. This vastly improved the efficiency of Blood Magic (of which you could already achieve a 1hp = 4 mana ratio), and even gave Grave Robber more damage. The only problem with this approach is that Blood Sacrifice became almost useless, but it's not like that would be a problem on a solo playthrough.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I haven't tried solo blood mage NM in DA2, tbh. I just waved the whole thing off after seeing the tree. But, huh, that, my friend, is an excelent idea to pass the time waiting for DA:I

[Cainhurst Crow]

It should have some bonuses as well. Perhaps spells last longer, have stronger range or effect. Something that makes it worth the risk of using, when people are afraid of it.

I'm a bit confused by parts of the lore. In DA:O animating the dead was a spell any mage can use. In. DA: 2 raising the dead was considered a part of blood magic and a negative/ghastly aspect of the power.

Spirit and Entrophy spells in general seem very blood magic-esque. Walking bomb, after all, almost seems like a talent that would be used only in blood magic. Same with drain life.

Anyway, how about a activated mode that eliminates cooldowns?

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'd reckon that those are not automatic death... you can get treated.

Ba-hah! XD Medical treatment in that era? Sorry, but nah. Not unless you got a spirit healer nearby.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Okay, let's settling something right here and now.

 

No possession tests. Okay? None, never, do not implement them in game, no. The reason? It'll slow the game to a ****** halt, worse then random pitfall deaths. Like, imagine if you're playing a warrior, a reaver say, and you're walking along minding your own business, and suddenly your character drops dead, you get to a game over screen, and you have to reload. The reason? Reavers are suppose to be evil so we've introduced a mechanic where if you don't pass a random number generator test your character dies from the dragons blood. Would you ever want to play a class with random death and no auto-saving in it? Does that honestly sound like anything with any sort of appeal? To take a class, and perscribe it not an in-game punishment, but a meta punishment meant to hamper the player progress just to teach them a lesson?

 

Stack some defense penalties, health regeneration locks, maybe a few locked out quests, fine. You can do that. But don't ****** start doing some metagaming retroactive bullshit to the player by either automatically killing or hijacking their characters because you don't like the class they picked. That is probably the most dishonest, dishonorable, and lowlife type of pigeon holing and I wouldn't stand for that to happen to the class I hate.

[Laughing_Man]

I have not read through this entire thread, but I want to point out something some of you may have chosen to forget in regards to the dangers of blood-magic and regular magic.

 

Yes, we all know what the chantry says is supposed to happend to those who practice blood-magic, more or less instant abomination.

Only that in reality, it dosen't seem to be the truth.

 

A. In DA:2 we have naive-Merril who practiced the more benign side of blood magic FOR YEARS without getting possessed because of it.

The only demonic danger she faced was because of another reason, her obssesion with the eluvian.

 

B. Tevinter.

No matter what you imagine Tevinter to be like, at least two things are for sure: the state supports slavery, and blood-magic is being practiced there regularly.

Now the thing is, the empire have not yet collapsed because all it's blood mages became abominations. And their blood-mages don't practice the benign version Merril did, they use slaves as fuel, according to what we know, they may have to handle the occasional abomination, but their empire is still standing.

 

Now some of you may *want* blood-magic to be extremely dangerous to everyone, but it seems that what we know is only the truth "from a certain point of view".

 

Regarding regular old magic.

It is obvious, at least to me, from the harrowing quest in DA:O, that a Demon can't just up and possess a mage, he needs the mage to actually let him in.

Or in some other cases - lack of training knowledge and education in the case of connor, torture by uldred to break their will, etc.

 

Seems to me that it's very easy to warn young mages, "no matter what, you come into the fade by yourself, and you leave by yourself".

Why? Here will come an illuminating explanation about what a demon is going to do after you bring him in, namely, first, crush the will of the mage, and than use the mutated meatsack in order to try and wreak havoc on everyone and everything.

 

Half the solution is in knowing the danger.

 

Not enough doom and gloom? Well, thankfuly it's not WH40K.

[LobselVith8]

Ba-hah! XD Medical treatment in that era? Sorry, but nah. Not unless you got a spirit healer nearby.

 

The concern over blood magic seems to have halted any medical process in Thedas. Healers are the way to go.

[Master Warder Z_]

 

Stack some defense penalties, health regeneration locks, maybe a few locked out quests, fine. You can do that. But don't ****** start doing some metagaming retroactive bullshit to the player by either automatically killing or hijacking their characters because you don't like the class they picked. That is probably the most dishonest, dishonorable, and lowlife type of pigeon holing and I wouldn't stand for that to happen to the class I hate.

 

If you don't want Metagaming reroactive BS then you shouldn't be a class where it applies and you can become possessed much either.

[KainD]

If you don't want Metagaming reroactive BS then you shouldn't be a class where it applies and you can become possessed much either.

 

You cannot be possessed unwillingly, it is IMPOSSIBLE, unless you are weak minded, uneducated scrub, which the protagonist isn't by default 

Getting possessed during confrontations with demons, by saying yes to them on the dialogue wheel is fine by me, even if it leads to a game over screen, but merely being a mage doesn't lead to that nor does blood magic. 

[The Baconer]

If you don't want Metagaming reroactive BS then you shouldn't be a class where it applies and you can become possessed much either.

 

That's the point of contention, though. What applies to gameplay from existing lore is ultimately up to Bioware, and nothing seems to imply they have any intention to make random possession a thing that can occur to the player character. After all, why would they?

[Master Warder Z_]

You cannot be possessed unwillingly, it is IMPOSSIBLE, unless you are weak minded, uneducated scrub, which the protagonist isn't by default 

Getting possessed during confrontations with demons, by saying yes to them on the dialogue wheel is fine by me, even if it leads to a game over screen, but merely being a mage doesn't lead to that nor does blood magic. 

 

So your defense of Blood Magic Gameplay ignoring the blood lore is...The PC is a special Snowflake?

 

Oddly enough that seems to be about the only defense that we get consistently.

 

Blood Magic sunders the veil much more easily, It normally comes from an individual demon where a deal was made thus forming a connection between mage to demon, and it subconsciously makes the Caster more susceptible to possession.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's the point of contention, though. What applies to gameplay from existing lore is ultimately up to Bioware, and nothing seems to imply they have any intention to make random possession a thing that can occur to the player character. After all, why would they?

 

Because it would be accurate?

 

Or at least they could you know feature something like this...

 

 

You know just to be sort of realistic...You kind of need that blood to well...live after all.