227 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

You cannot be possessed unwillingly, it is IMPOSSIBLE, unless you are weak minded, uneducated scrub, which the protagonist isn't by default 

Getting possessed during confrontations with demons, by saying yes to them on the dialogue wheel is fine by me, even if it leads to a game over screen, but merely being a mage doesn't lead to that nor does blood magic. 

Exactly, stuff like that should never be made reliant on a random number generator. Of all the decisions and game designs to go, that would be the most douche baggiest of them all.

[KainD]

So your defense of Blood Magic Gameplay ignoring the blood lore is...The PC is a special Snowflake?

 

Blood Magic sunders the veil much more easily, It normally comes from an individual demon where a deal was made thus forming a connection between mage to demon, and it subconsciously makes the Caster more susceptible to possession.

 

No my defense is there is no such blood magic lore.

 

Blood magic doesn't sunder the veil any more than regular magic if that's not the mages direct intention, and it doesn't come only from demons, and when it does come from demons no connection is required. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

If you don't want Metagaming reroactive BS then you shouldn't be a class where it applies and you can become possessed much either.

 

No. There is no if, ands, or buts in this this scenario. There really is nothing to it. Don't do it, unless you want to intentionally create the worst class in the world and turn gameplay into a finger wagging morality lesson.

[The Baconer]

Because it would be accurate?

 

Accurate doesn't inherently make for good gameplay.

 

 

You know just to be sort of realistic...You kind of need that blood to well...live after all.

 

Using your own blood to power spells is so plebeian.

[KainD]

Exactly, stuff like that should never be made reliant on a random number generator. Of all the decisions and game designs to go, that would be the most douche baggiest of them all.

 

It's not even about it being douche. I wouldn't mind it even if mages would die every time they cast a spell, IF THAT WAS THE LORE. But the arguments here are not supported by the lore. 

[KainD]

Accurate doesn't inherently make for good gameplay.

 

Can you stop replying to him as if he IS accurate? Because he isn't. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

So your defense of Blood Magic Gameplay ignoring the blood lore is...The PC is a special Snowflake?

 

Oddly enough that seems to be about the only defense that we get consistently.

 

Blood Magic sunders the veil much more easily, It normally comes from an individual demon where a deal was made thus forming a connection between mage to demon, and it subconsciously makes the Caster more susceptible to possession.

 

What lore? Nothing in the lore says that blood mages are any more susceptible to possession then normal mages. Only that they can summon demons, which would go after anyone mages regardless. Otherwise we wouldn't encounter non-possessed blood mages in the circle tower while seeing a non-blood mage become an abomination, tranquils at that.

 

Blood magic can be used to be sunder the veil more easily. It's not an automatic response. A blood mage is not a wound in the force, their very presence does not cause any more effects then those of your average mage. You are talking about what is an active, conscious decision by some blood mages to open tears in the veil, and perscrbing it as if it were an unconscious byproduct of their magic, which it isn't.

 

In fact here's an even bigger hole in your theory. Connor wasn't a blood mage and he became an abomination, meanwhile jowan the blood mage non-harrowed guy was still a-okay when we meet him. That punches a massive hole in any theory that blood mages are more susceptible to this stuff then normal mages.

[Star fury]

So your defense of Blood Magic Gameplay ignoring the blood lore is...The PC is a special Snowflake?

 

Oddly enough that seems to be about the only defense that we get consistently.

 

Blood Magic sunders the veil much more easily, It normally comes from an individual demon where a deal was made thus forming a connection between mage to demon, and it subconsciously makes the Caster more susceptible to possession.

 

So can you tell us your system of BDSM-ing mages?

 

Someone already did, it was something like if you are mage, you have:

 

Penalty.

Penalty.

Penalty.

Penalty.

Penalty.

Penalty.

Penalty.

Penalty.

Buff.

[The Baconer]

It is accurate, according to World of Thedas.

 

"Mages who experiment with blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits"

 

And it isn't from a writing by an in-universe character or written as "X says this about blood magic", it's just a plain statement of fact.

[KainD]

It is accurate, according to World of Thedas.

 

Link please. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

It is accurate, according to World of Thedas.

 

I checked, and no it is not.

 

EDIT:

Pages 105 to 109, which covers apostates and blood magic, doesn't mention blood mages being more susceptible to possession, that their presences alone can alter the veil, or anything similar to that. Only that it allows them to do more then other mages at the cost of their magic requirng a darker type of fuel to be used. A much more cost driven form of magic.

[The Baconer]

[KainD]

 

Yes ok, if our character is going to be involved in blood magic rituals along with other blood mages that involve deaths of hundreds of people and nuke-like spells, I won't object if it can lead to something undesirable. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Mages who experiment with blood magic, so basically those who would be using a large quantity of it such as mass sacrifices or things of a similar nature. It doesn't say those who use blood magic, it says those actively using a large amount of power via blood magic. I fully admit, causing a lot of pain and death can thin the veil. Does that mean a blood mage sitting at a bar doing nothing and minding their own business will suddenly turn into a possessed killing machine? No.

 

And I do believe that note was in relation to the letter written in the section next to it, which mentions 2 individuals who used blood magic in piratical applications and didn't become an abomination, and two who used experimented with blood magic to do different and untested things such as to enter the veil and one who tried to become a perfect human being and both resulted in horrible abominations that way.

 

Using and experimenting are two different things. If our characters get the option to use our abilties to do some kind of untested ritual involving a lot of people dying to fuel it, then fine, abomination me and give me a game over screen or possession test. Fine, that would have been my choice and I should live with the consequence of that choice being a logical outshoot of what happened. But don't just spam me with initiative checks just becuase I decided to walk a few steps like this was some final fantasy game.

[The Baconer]

Mages who experiment with blood magic, so basically those who would be using a large quantity of it such as mass sacrifices or things of a similar nature. It doesn't say those who use blood magic, it says those actively using a large amount of power via blood magic. I fully admit, causing a lot of pain and death can thin the veil. Does that mean a blood mage sitting at a bar doing nothing and minding their own business will suddenly turn into a possessed killing machine? No.

 

(...)

 

Using and experimenting are two different things.

 

Consider that there are very few places where one can go and learn the finer details of using blood magic. So what blood mages do in order to learn the extent of their power (and how to do specific things like Blood Wound or Hemorrhage) could certainly be construed as experimentation.

[Roninbarista]

Spirit and Entrophy spells in general seem very blood magic-esque. Walking bomb, after all, almost seems like a talent that would be used only in blood magic. Same with drain life.Anyway, how about a activated mode that eliminates cooldowns?

A quicker or no cooldown for talents and spells (for self and party) sounds good to me. It does make blood magic more tempting as a route to take for a mage.

I agree about the entropy and spirit powers resembling blood magic. Moreso the spirit bomb from DA:O embodied the gore aspect of blood magic, or how I imagine it. I'm curious if the new game may embody gory-results in the attacks. Horror and Walking nightmare get into the opponents heads much like blood magic.

[KainD]

Consider that there are very few places where one can go and learn the finer details of using blood magic. So what blood mages do in order to learn the extent of their power (and how to do specific things like Blood Wound or Hemorrhage) could certainly be construed as experimentation.

 

Consider that any specialization requires a lot of studying and not many places where one can learn such. We are playing a protagonist that is saving the world, we will have the best training. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Consider that there are very few places where one can go and learn the finer details of using blood magic. So what blood mages do in order to learn the extent of their power (and how to do specific things like Blood Wound or Hemorrhage) could certainly be construed as experimentation.

 

Or they learn it like how jowan did, and not become abomination. Or how the warden can in dragon age awakening. Or if those are truly cheating, you can rationalize it as the mages having not involved tens of people at once in their blood magic use like how orsino or calenthius did.

 

Just don't try to turn yourself into some kind of altered entity or start killing people in mass and you should be fine. Even the baroness managed to avoid being possessed by turning herself into a horrific entity and beating everyone else to it. That has to at least show that there's more going on in blood magic then just "Rocks fall, everyone turned ugly".

[Cainhurst Crow]

The developers claim specializations will be made a bigger part of the game, so I hope they live up to that promise with something similar to DAO. If we can only learn blood magic from a demonic source, alright then. Again, that will be a choice and the consequence of that choice should probably be laid out for the player like it was in DAO and maybe given a few more tweaks that don't involve ******-poor gameplay mechanics.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing vocational specializations that require us to actually learn them come back into play, rather then us just being able to access them at any time in the game like the previous titles had.

[Master Warder Z_]

Or they learn it like how jowan did, and not become abomination. Or how the warden can in dragon age awakening. Or if those are truly cheating

 

Ander's mentioned it was possible to merely sense the power within blood if you were a mage, aka you can instruct yourself within it merely be pricking a finger.

 

But i'd also argue that teachings coming from the source of blood magic aka Demons would result in far more efficient usage of it then self taught methods or learning from an instructional manual on it. But the adverse to that is that you would likely have to forge a bond with said demon to acquire that skill proficiency.

[The Baconer]

Or they learn it like how jowan did, and not become abomination. Or how the warden can in dragon age awakening. Or if those are truly cheating, you can rationalize it as the mages having not involved tens of people at once in their blood magic use like how orsino or calenthius did.

 

Just don't try to turn yourself into some kind of altered entity or start killing people in mass and you should be fine. Even the baroness managed to avoid being possessed by turning herself into a horrific entity and beating everyone else to it. That has to at least show that there's more going on in blood magic then just "Rocks fall, everyone turned ugly".

 

It's not an "either-or" situation. It said blood mages are more susceptible to demons, not that it's a guarantee.

[KainD]

It's not an "either-or" situation. It said blood mages are more susceptible to demons.

No they are not. Mages with a specific mindset are more susceptible to demons. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

It's not an "either-or" situation. It said blood mages are more susceptible to demons, not that it's a guarantee.

But treating it like a garuntee by having an automatic death mechanic in game, IE a pitfall-esqe system, that's okay.

[The Baconer]

But treating it like a garuntee by having an automatic death mechanic in game, IE a pitfall-esqe system, that's okay.

 

Well, at least one person in the topic appears to think so.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Well, as long as it's only mages who deal with this I guess everyone works out fine.