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CQC Adept Run


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#1
a_mouse

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Hi All.  I decided to give CQC Adept a try.  Since I hadn't played much Adept before this run, I was bit surprised it went this well.  Although an Adept is not quite as naturally suited to CQC as a Sentinel or soldier hybrid, the combination of heavy barrier + singularity actually provides a LOT of mobility. And once you establish a breakout… well…it's hard to beat an Adept for pure destruction...
 
 
Here's the build (level 20):
 
10: Heavy Warp
10: Heavy Singularity
1: Pull
10: Bastion
10: Heavy Barrier
 
Level 5 SMG (locust), Level 3 (or 4?) shotgun (Evi).  
 
Credit to Arhka's thread for inspiration!  I've been paralleling this run with a CQC Engineer as well, which uses a similar strategy (involving GSB + Drone instead of Barrier + Singularity).  Although these two classes have different strengths and weaknesses for CQC, they can both be quite powerful.  

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#2
ahsari2014

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What kind of gameplay recorder do you use ? I want to buy myself one too.

#3
a_mouse

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Take your pick, for they are Legion.  But this one is called Mirillis Action.



#4
ahsari2014

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Oke. I was thinking about a hauppage pvr rocket. Anyway , i like playing as an adept. I use singularity and warp. Last sunday i finished ME-2 . I choose Tali and Kasumi. And it worked ! They protected me very well. And this was on insanity. But i had to replay the last mission for some reason. So this time i choose Zaeed and Garrus. Yeah, they let me down . I had to help them killing the collectors . So i couldn't concentrate on the reaper. I kept dying. So i set the game difficulty on easy and finished . And somehow Loyal Tali died. Just great.

#5
ahsari2014

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I did some searching . I found out i need an Elgato recording device to connect to my ipad. It is made for ios. So i already bought it.. I am relieved because i thought i had to buy a laptop again.

#6
NekkidNones

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When dealing with a swarm of husks, try throwing singularity down at your feet to prevent the husks from cutting it`s time down.  They`ll try to attack you instead of the...`spell`... With a longer lasting singularity, you`ll be free to throw out a warp to the incomming husks, a bit.  As long as you're still in the AOE of an active singularity you'll get to polish off a lot of husks with some firey melee c-c-c-combos!

 

I found it fun that way anyways.

(not so much when there are scions present though.  they're just party poopers)

 

Thanks for yet another nice upload Mouse ^_^



#7
Locutus_of_BORG

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Nice!

 

If you haven't already, check out bozorgmehr's Adept vids: http://social.biowar.../index/2841785/

 

Basically he spends all his time right in the enemy's grille. He was also one of the first to combo lifting and throwing powers to instakill debuffed enemies, which is faster than killing with BEs in ME2.



#8
a_mouse

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OK, here is another variation, with Stasis instead of Heavy Barrier:
 
(video reformatted July 2014 so as not to cut off telemetry at top and bottom of screen)
 
The build (level 20 Adept):
 
10 - heavy warp
6 - throw
10 - heavy singularity
1 - pull
10 - bastion
1- stasis 
(3 unassigned)
 
Play style was adjusted to achieve a similar level of risk/reward as with Heavy Barrier.  Comparing to the other vid you can see this results in a more "thinking man's" version of CQC.  On one hand it is not possible to perform the same level of frontal assault without Barrier, but with stasis and singularity both active, it is possible to pin multiple enemies simultaneously, creating opportunities to kite them, or close in and clobber.  I won't say which I like better - you be the judge.  I look forward to your comments!

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#9
capn233

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Stasis or Reave would probably be what I would use to attempt this.  Defense powers have too long a cooldown in ME2, IMO.



#10
NekkidNones

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Smoked well!

 

Just wondering about your thoughts on throw, for these CQC builds.  I assume it was upped beyond 1 just cause the points were there, and you didn't want a longer stasis.  But that would be an assumption all the same. 

In normal play, I would have taken the hit on pull inorder to open shockwave.  Ya, know...Just to have the option to use it.

 

anyways, no thoughts on wide singularity melee vs husks?

 

O - singularity {} - AOE X-Shep H- husks

 

{ OX} HHHHHHHHHH



#11
a_mouse

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I actually had several takes where I used throw more, but none made into this video.  It's definitely situational, but when that situation comes up, it's unique in what it can do.  

 

Shockwave I've never found much use for on insanity since it really shines on obliterating clusters of unprotected enemies (which doesn't come up very often). If I have a cluster of mixed protected and unprotected enemies, I prefer to pull-warp in order to multiply AOE damage.  If there is one unprotected guy, pull-throw.  Or if I am close enough, pull - shogun.  However, I'm no expert on ranged combat with an Adept.  My main goal here is to use powers to help maneuver into shotgun/melee range, or exploit breakouts.  

 

Unfortunately Melee and singularity don't go well together because the singularity collapses when Shep gets too close to it.  As for wide singularity - as you can see here Adepts are tailor made to own husks.  One could own them slightly more with WS, but why bother.  With heavy singularity Adepts are unique in their ability to pin heavy units, including scions and Harbi.  So on balance, I think HS is better for CQ.



#12
Fortack

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Stasis is a much better bonus power for Adepts, regardless how you prefer to play them. It's also arguably better at rank 1 than at rank 4 (unlike Barrier) which allows you to invest points in the other powers. Generally, the "best" build for an Insanity Adept is Heavy Throw, Pull Field, Heavy Singularity, Heavy Warp, Bastion, and one point in Stasis.

 

Nice to see people still playing and posting videos of the ME2 Adept! If you want to go even faster through the Collector Ship you need to bring Samara with Area Reave and someone with Pull Field. With that combo you can take out nearly all Collectors on the platforms instantly while Adept Shep can put the Scoins in Stasis before dealing with the floating Collectors. That means you only have to deal with either one Harby and two elites (Guardian / Assassin) or two Harbies and one elite (everything else is gone before they can do anything at all).

 

In most cases Throw is a better option than Warp. Some might like Warpbombs but personally I enjoy tossing enemies around a lot more. A well aimed Throw can kill every enemy in one go whilst Warp only kills basic enemies - and for half the cooldown cost! Once you get the hang of throwing enemies off the map, or - which a lot of people don't know about - to somewhere neither Shepard or enemies are supposed to be (that's basically everywhere Shepard cannot go to); Throw becomes highly effective (always ragdoll enemies first and use Heavy Throw).

 

Shockwave is a little redundant for Adepts, but it isn't half as bad as people think. Shockwave requires a little finesse (and luck) and since investing points in it is gonna gimp your build somewhere else I wouldn't recommend it to new players. But players who know how the game works and like to test how far you can go with the ME2's physics engine should have a jolly good time (I know I did). This is a video of my good old Shockwave Adept (note that this a NG+ level 30 Adept without a single biotic upgrade; Throw and Shockwave will improve when you get all 6 upgrades later on).

Vanguards don't have Warp or Throw so Shockwave is a lot more interesting to them (assuming they want to do more than spam Charge 24/7). This is how I like to play the ME2 Vanguard (build is at the end of the video).

 

I really enjoyed watching you play the ME2 Adept. Brought back some good memories. Thanks for sharing!


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#13
a_mouse

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If you want to go even faster through the Collector Ship you need to bring Samara with Area Reave and someone with Pull Field. With that combo you can take out nearly all Collectors on the platforms instantly while Adept Shep can put the Scoins in Stasis before dealing with the floating Collectors. That means you only have to deal with either one Harby and two elites (Guardian / Assassin) or two Harbies and one elite (everything else is gone before they can do anything at all).

 

In most cases Throw is a better option than Warp. Some might like Warpbombs but personally I enjoy tossing enemies around a lot more. A well aimed Throw can kill every enemy in one go whilst Warp only kills basic enemies - and for half the cooldown cost! Once you get the hang of throwing enemies off the map, or - which a lot of people don't know about - to somewhere neither Shepard or enemies are supposed to be (that's basically everywhere Shepard cannot go to); Throw becomes highly effective (always ragdoll enemies first and use Heavy Throw).

I've actually been looking for a vid showing someome clearing the platforms in less than 60 seconds, but come up empty.  Anyone of you old lags know what the record is?  I suspect that the rate may ultimately be limited to the platform event cues, so may come down to how fast you can clear the final platform.  For this reason it may actually be best to let the first Harbi form, and kite him the whole time until just before the last platform arrives, and then take out the last guys with ranged AOE powers and throw, not CQC.

 

I agree with your comments on throw - if you have a single enemy at midrange it is often a better option than warp.  But Adepts are naturally suited to ranged combat.  What this means is that if I find myself using throw a lot, it often means I've dropped out of CQC mode and adopted a more ranged combat style.  This happens when I get tired or hungry, or need my diaper changed.  



#14
NekkidNones

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butts in for quick blurb. 

Sorry, I thought your vids were more about laying the smackdown hard, than time runs.

I agree that shockwave has it's issues.  But from a non speed run or honour perspective, just survivablity view.  shockwave can cheaply kill/damage guys trough door/walls/cover, though it takes an inordinate amount of time.

Guess it doesn't play well for bawls to the walls onslaughts.  Just can't escape the thought that if I were really there, you know I'd pull whatever cheap stunt I could to keep my clothes clean. 

 

I find I can knock guys out of bounds almost as easily with lvl1 throw as I can with lvl4.  Which helps me justify droping points into SW, though I rarely use it.

 

anywho*butts out*



#15
Fortack

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I've actually been looking for a vid showing someome clearing the platforms in less than 60 seconds, but come up empty.  Anyone of you old lags know what the record is?  I suspect that the rate may ultimately be limited to the platform event cues, so may come down to how fast you can clear the final platform.  For this reason it may actually be best to let the first Harbi form, and kite him the whole time until just before the last platform arrives, and then take out the last guys with ranged AOE powers and throw, not CQC.

 

I agree with your comments on throw - if you have a single enemy at midrange it is often a better option than warp.  But Adepts are naturally suited to ranged combat.  What this means is that if I find myself using throw a lot, it often means I've dropped out of CQC mode and adopted a more ranged combat style.  This happens when I get tired or hungry, or need my diaper changed.  

 

The fastest I could go with my Adept, using the strategy I mentioned earlier, was just over 60 seconds (this video @ 3:00). I might have been a little faster with the Mattock, but probably not fast enough to challenge Jwalker's Vanguard, who completed this section in 52 seconds. Fastest time I recall. The real problem is how to manage the platforms themselves. You need them to arrive at the right moment so you don't waste time doing nothing.



#16
a_mouse

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Wait, are you MrB?  I had not made the connection.  We are in the presence of a legend!  

 

Anyway, it looks like you cleared it in 66 seconds.  My guess is you would actually have made it under 60 seconds if you had not killed the first harbi, but kept him pinned with a singularity while your squad whittled him away.  Then you could have tossed the entire group on the last platform.  btw, I hadn't realized you could float the second scion (will have to try that next time!) 



#17
Fortack

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I evolved, sorta. Today I am Krogan :devil:

 

I've almost completed another ME1 playthrough so I was scanning the forum for some ideas what class I want to play in ME2. It seems you helped me make up my mind in that regard. Cheers!



#18
capn233

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The platform rate first limitation is how you deal with the Scions since Stasis or Drone glitching them will save a significant amount of time.

If you do glitch them, then you need to control the platform triggers.  If not, then you will be wasting time in between killing Scions anyway.



#19
a_mouse

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Sorry, I thought your vids were more about laying the smackdown hard, than time runs.

I agree that shockwave has it's issues.  But from a non speed run or honour perspective, just survivablity view.  shockwave can cheaply kill/damage guys trough door/walls/cover, though it takes an inordinate amount of time. Guess it doesn't play well for bawls to the walls onslaughts.  

They are, just an interesting side note.  Also, don't get me wrong about shockwave - there's no doubt it has uses in the right hands!  And it's oh so  entertaining to watch!  But with my particular style I would not end up using it very often.  Either the enemies are clustered and vulnerable on a breakout (in which case I am probably bombing them), or they are spread out (in which case I am probably isolating them and clobbering them up close). 



#20
a_mouse

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The platform rate first limitation is how you deal with the Scions since Stasis or Drone glitching them will save a significant amount of time.

If you do glitch them, then you need to control the platform triggers.  If not, then you will be wasting time in between killing Scions anyway.

No doubt there is an old thread on collector trap event triggers...?



#21
RedCaesar97

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Great vids so far. Always nice to see the Adept get some love.

 

Cannot remember seeing a post about Collector trap triggers. If I can, I will see if I can dig something up.



#22
a_mouse

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Stasis or Reave would probably be what I would use to attempt this.  Defense powers have too long a cooldown in ME2, IMO.

I used to share your opinion on this (even about Tech armor), but I am slowly coming around to a more nuanced line of thinking.  

 

For ranged combat (where you are mostly using a shield power to extend the time you can be poked out of cover firing a weapon), then I totally agree that shield powers have way too long a cool down to make them effective.  They tend to interfere with other powers at the exact moment you need to use them, ultimately slowing the pace and preventing you from taking quick actions at critical moments. Also, for for CQC with Soldiers, Vanguards, and Infiltrators (who already have a good mobility power in AR, Charge, and Cloak), I usually find that a shield power directly interferes with their native mobility power.

 

However, for CQC involving non-soldier hybrid classes (Engineer, Adept, Sentinel), I think things can be a different story. For these classes, a shield power essential fills the role that a mobility power provides on soldier hybrid classes.  In some situations a shield power used in this way can actually interferes LESS with other powers than the cool down of a true mobility power, since the cool down can be prepaid before maneuvering, whereas with charge, AR and cloak the cool down does not begin until the power ends.  For this reason immobilizing ammo powers are generally more important on soldier hybrid classes since they have to have a way to disable enemies with red health bars while waiting for their mobility power to reset.  In contrast, a non-soldier class with a shield power can simultaneously unleash weapons and powers as part of a CQ takedown.

 

For examples, take a look at 3:10 ~ 3:20, 3:40 ~ 4:05, and 4:25 ~ 4:45 of the first vid (barrier adept).

 

The first thing you'll notice is that the initial cool down of barrier is already complete before the first engagement, so does not interfere with power use during the initial rush.  By the time the barrier is down completely, the cool down of the 2nd power is done, so the barrier can be recast for another period under fire, allowing a second or heavy enemy to be fully taken out.  Then during the 2nd barrier cool down I am either firing a weapon or recovering health, so not using other powers yet anyway.  By the time I need to use powers again, the 2nd cool down is finished. So in practice, I think the use of shield powers and other powers is often sufficiently asynchronous (interdigitated) during a CQ takedown that their cool downs don't interfere too badly. This argument goes double for Sentinels, since casting tech armor resets squadmate cooldowns, so you can just use squad powers during the shield cooldown.

 

Although I could post vids showing similar maneuvers without a protection power, I can tell you right now it would not be representative. To repeat the same multi-enemy takedowns shown in the three examples I just cited, I would probably die 4/5 times, whereas with a shield power I can pull it off almost every time (with varying levels of health damage).  Compare these same points in the time sequence to ones from the 2nd vid (stasis adept) – you'll see I have to play these same scenarios much more conservatively.  What I think this comparison shows is that with the same player, a stasis adept is not going to be nearly as mobile under fire from enemies on the lose.  The stasis Adept must first lock down enemies with singularity and stasis, and then move.  The reason the stasis vid is 2 mins shorter than the barrier vid is mostly exploitation of stasis to take down heavy units quickly, not because stasis provides inherently higher mobility for CQC in all situations.

 

So while I am still not going to admit which one I prefer, I have definitely come to respect the value of shield power for this purpose!



#23
capn233

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You can accomplish the same thing essentially with Energy Drain, Reave or Tech Armor, all of which have benefits other than protection.

 

Oh and it may be moot now that you have done a fast run, but I thought I recalled that the primary triggers were killing the basic Collectors in each wave, with possibly a secondary time based trigger.  The final trigger is of course killing all hostiles (to end the section).  I would need to mess around with it to make sure the time trigger actually exists, it has been a while.



#24
a_mouse

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You can accomplish the same thing essentially with Energy Drain, Reave or Tech Armor, all of which have benefits other than protection.


Well, it's an Adept in this case, so (unfortunately) not Tech Armor. We should also add medigel to your list: 1.5 second cooldown, and if upgraded restores both health AND shields, so definitely worth mentioning in this context!
 

The reason I prefer a shield power over Reave and Energy Drain (in a CQC context) is that those powers are more situational.  An enemy needs to be organic (and down to health) to drain any health off him using Reave, and Energy Drain only works on shielded enemies. The other thing is that a shield power both restores shields/barrier and boosts its stats, so you can take more hits without dropping into health in the first place.   Ideally, if i am doing things right, I am taking maximum advantage of the shield gate and not actually dropping into health.  If so, Reave isn't helping defensively.  Also, if a shield power is active, and you retain even a sliver of shields/barrier, it will restore to full augmented value upon recovery without recasting.  This gives you the option to either spend a cooldown to recast immediately, or wait for shields/barrier to recover on their own.  Although upgraded medigel restores full shields, it is only to 1x value, and you can run out of medigel pretty quickly using the approach.  

 

Don't get me wrong - Reave and Energy Drain are awesome powers.  But I tend to use them more in ranged combat situations where I have full view of the battlefield, and can take maximum advantage of their simultaneous offense/defense features.  Like popping out of cover, draining one dude while hammering another with an assault rifle.  They are also great for stripping groups.  Reave also is a great immobilizer of debuffed enemies. So for a general build that needs to do a lot of different things, Reave and Energy Drain may (in many cases) be superior choices over a shield power.  Obviously what is "best" is going to depend a lot on play style and personal preference.  



#25
capn233

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Reave increases your max health as well as gives you a restore / regen rate during the duration.  Energy Drain similarly will give a bonus to max shields when you use it.  These bonuses to max shields or health do not end when you are reduced under the max value, it lasts the duration of the effect, which is also different from most defensive powers.  The main advantage though, IMO, is that you are doing damage to protections and or CC'ing enemies within the area of effect compared to the defensive power.  For DCC, obviously I would choose Reave out of the two, then you could decide whether or not you would want to take EDrain on Geth missions.

 

Since this is ME2 we are talking about, you will regen all of your health, so using it as an available pool to take damage isn't out of the question.  This of course applies the most to the Soldier w/ Hardened AR, but is generalizable to any class.


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