52 réponses à ce sujet

[DrBlingzle]

According to elven lore the forgotten ones were a subset of the elven pantheon who were dark gods and presided over bad aspects of existence. They were eventually tricked by the dread wolf Fen'harel who sealed the Forgotten ones away in their realm of the abyss.

when I read about them I was reminded of the old gods as they were "dark gods" who had been locked away and the forgotten one's "realm of the abyss" could easily mean the deep roads. I cant help but wonder if they are the same entities.

 

This theory is not without faults however, for instance  some of the aspects that the forgotten ones were said to have were disease, spite malevolence and terror, none of which are the aspects the old gods have. There are also other little details which don't quite match up but you should bear in mind that much of the information on the forgoten ones was lost and forgotten (hence the name) and some information could of easily been changed.

 

So I'd just like to know your thoughts on it and feel free to discuss any other links you see between elven mythology and the chant of light.

 

 

link to the forgotten ones page on the dragon age wiki.

http://dragonage.wik..._Forgotten_Ones    

[The Elder King]

That's my favourite theory. Fen'harel=The Maker, the Forgotten Ones=The Old Gods. Elven and humans share different versions of the same Gods.

[Ghostjs]

Well the old gods may not have had, "disease, spite, malevolence, and terror" but the darkspawn and the archdemon sure do. So, I wouldn't call that a fault in the theory. Since Fen'harel locked both sets of gods away, I wonder who the good gods of the dalish would be, the benevolent fade spirits?

[DrBlingzle]

I think Sebastian and Merrill talk about that in some party banter in DA2.

(okay I think the quote button died or something I was replying to you elder king)

Modifié par Drblingzle, 03 mars 2014 - 05:46 .

[Saints]

That's my favourite theory. Fen'harel=The Maker, the Forgotten Ones=The Old Gods. Elven and humans share different versions of the same Gods.

And the Elven Pantheon?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I doubt it. There are only three Forgotten Ones, and they share different negative traits that the Old Gods. And the context of them being trapped is completely different than the it is for the stories of why the Old Gods were trapped underground.

 

I've never been a fan of the idea that the different divine beings in Dragon Age are actually the same.

[The Elder King]

And the Elven Pantheon?

Considering that the Old Gods are dragons, and dragons are returning, and that in the comics dragons seems to be sealed in the last above earth (Fade?)...I'd say they sealed in the Fade, above earth.

I have doubts that this theory will be true, but it's an interesting one for me.

[St. Victorious]

Its a fairly easy connection to draw. Whether factual to the story or intentionally misleading. The abyss they were locked in were clearly the deep roads while the Elvan Pantheon I'd guess is locked in the Fade. My guess is that the Pantheon were actually the first dreamers and Fen'Harel somehow locked them in the Fade. I also believe Flemeth = the Dread Wolf.

[Nuloen]

That's my favourite theory. Fen'harel=The Maker, the Forgotten Ones=The Old Gods. Elven and humans share different versions of the same Gods.

but dire wolf is bad+i didnt read anything about Maker kicking asses of other gods if you have something like that please post it

[Saints]

Considering that the Old Gods are dragons, and dragons are returning, and that in the comics dragons seems to be sealed in the last above earth (Fade?)...I'd say they sealed in the Fade, above earth.
I have doubts that this theory will be true, but it's an interesting one for me.

I don't recall who, but one of the devs stated that dragons are animals and no more sentient than a Mabari.. even if they are pretty smart..

[Nuloen]

Its a fairly easy connection to draw. Whether factual to the story or intentionally misleading. The abyss they were locked in were clearly the deep roads while the Elvan Pantheon I'd guess is locked in the Fade. My guess is that the Pantheon were actually the first dreamers and Fen'Harel somehow locked them in the Fade. I also believe Flemeth = the Dread Wolf.

why fade there are other dimensions too

read Eluvian

[The Elder King]

but dire wolf is bad+i didnt read anything about Maker kicking asses of other gods if you have something like that please post it

As I said, in my theory humans and elven have different, partial version of the same Gods. The fact is that both Maker and the Dread Wolf sealed OG/FO in the abyss of earth (Deep Roads). The Andrastian version simply lacks the part about the elven Gods.

I don't recall who, but one of the devs stated that dragons are animals and no more sentient than a Mabari.. even if they are pretty smart..

Indeed. Howewer, if the old Gods talked with humans (as Legacy suggested), it'd mean they sentient. The old Gods could be able to shapeshift in different forms.

[Nuloen]

I don't recall who, but one of the devs stated that dragons are animals and no more sentient than a Mabari.. even if they are pretty smart..

thats why some people(like me) think old gods are possessed dragons

[Reznore57]

I think they are the same , more or less.

My main theory is the elves (probably with outside help) trapped the old gods.

Sending their souls in the Golden city/Arlathan , and tapping magic from them.

In time these souls have been given name , identity etc and have been seen as good gods.

Such as Mythal etc...

 

And their bodies were burried , and seen as cursed .And got the name "Forgotten" , because well when you butcher your own "gods" , the whole story can get a little taboo around the campfire.

 

Besides elven lore tends to ignore those huge dragons , they are known to humans , the tome of Koslun had some lore about them , and  the Witch of the Wilds Yavana said they used to rule the skies.

Elves used to have a very advanced culture , as far as magic goes , they were better than current Tevinter...It would make sense they'd reject animal gods , and prefer something more close to home .

But those dragons were burried under elven lands back then , and people knew it somehow since humans found out about it.

I don't understand why the elves weren't more involved.

 

It's just theories , but I think the elves had secret knowledge about the old gods , and it trigger the war , the fall of their civilization and Arlathan.

[DrBlingzle]

st victorius

Yeah I've also thought that flemeth=dread wolf. But you can never be too sure.

(again sorry the quote button isn't working for me for some reason.)

[Nuloen]

As I said, in my theory humans and elven have different, partial version of the same Gods. The fact is that both Maker and the Dread Wolf sealed OG/FO in the abyss of earth (Deep Roads). The Andrastian version simply lacks the part about the elven Gods.

oh found it: "After imprisoning the Old Gods underground, the Maker turned away from mankind"

but old gods still called even if they were underground so i still dont see any connection

[Nuloen]

plus elven gods were children of sun and earth

[Brass_Buckles]

Well the old gods may not have had, "disease, spite, malevolence, and terror" but the darkspawn and the archdemon sure do. So, I wouldn't call that a fault in the theory. Since Fen'harel locked both sets of gods away, I wonder who the good gods of the dalish would be, the benevolent fade spirits?

 

No; to the elves the spirits are just spirits.

 

Not as familiar with lore as I used to be, so I can't really put forth any more arguments than that.  I'm replaying DAO at the moment, though, so perhaps I'll be able to say something more insightful soon.

[Master Warder Z_]

In a single word?

 

No.

[Rotward]

An interesting thought. If so, we might well find out in this game, since we're finding more out about their sunken city. 

[LobselVith8]

I doubt it. There are only three Forgotten Ones, and they share different negative traits that the Old Gods. And the context of them being trapped is completely different than the it is for the stories of why the Old Gods were trapped underground.

 

I've never been a fan of the idea that the different divine beings in Dragon Age are actually the same.

 

There are three known Forgotten Ones, but Merrill does mention that their lore on the Forgotten Ones is mostly missing among the Dalish, and they don't know the names of all of the Forgotten Ones (or even why the Creators and the Forgotten Ones were at war). I do agree that the context between the two mythologies is different.

[DrBlingzle]

In a single word?

 

No.

 

What makes you so sure? We dont have proof that they are or they aren't.

[Master Warder Z_]

What makes you so sure? We dont have proof that they are or they aren't.

 

Considering the Old Gods were worshiped from an entirely different culture then the elven pantheon evil rejects we can safely assume that if there was any actual credence to said cults of dragons they would realize as much when they marched on said culture.

 

Furthermore in their own mythos they were sealed away at the ending of the age of the gods, if we are for the sake of argument allowing these boogeymen to exist for the sake of debate, wouldn't they still be contained like the other portions of the elven pantheon?

 

This line of thought has even more contradictions and speculations behind then just looking to see if said beings even existed.

 

Hence why its just simpler to look at it for what it is, baseless speculation that is most likely 99.99% false.

[myahele]

I'm no expert at lore I know that the elven gods were sealed in the heavans (maybe fade) wnile the forgotten ones were sealed in the abyss (maybe deep underground?)

From what we know dragons taught tevinter magisters blood magic. Maybe even taught dragon cultist about becoming a reaver, which is basically blood magic for non mages

I have a theory that some of those weird statues we enounter in DAO fade may be the sealed elven pantheon or simply powerful fade entities. I say this because that skeleton looking monster in the promos look very similar to those statues. The elongated body+arms are a good indicator.

Yet I also saw the same statues in the 1st area of the temple in haven...also in the blood mage house in denerim...

[Grieving Natashina]

Sorry, but I wanted to throw this up.

 

Old God = Forgotten One = Maker =...

 

 

Directly on topic, I've been wondering the same for a long time.  I think they are the same beings, only with different names and stories attached to them.  However, I'm betting the understanding that even someone like Genitivi would have on the subject is scant.  The answer probably lies somewhere in between.  I do know I'd like to hear a little bit more about both the Forgotten Ones and the Old Gods in future games.