344 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

He was concerned if this meant a shift in gameplay presentation.  It was a concern he had, it isn't any more unlikely a concern than "why isn't Allistare married yet" or "My warden's LI better not be married to someone else or I will have a hissy fit" concerns.

 

I would argue that being as irrational and irrelevant as those two topics doesn't make his concerns any more valid.

 

@Lob, now you're being irrational even more then those other threads. You keep using the word ommited, as if this information was in a previous addition of WOT but was later removed, when this the first volume and first edition of the book, so I don't see what is being omitted here.

 

World of thedas condenses everything, it's meant to be a condensed and highly digestible collection of facts about the dragon age setting, not a massive DnD style guidebook. Blood magic is condescend in it's discussion as well, leaving out particulars on how one learns blood magic, the books and manuals written on the subject in the circle tower and elsewhere, the applications of the art beyond mind control, and a history or examples of famous historical blood mages. Do I draw from this that blood magic is going to no longer be a class specialization in the game? Or that blood magic will be reduced to evil magic only?

 

No, because I'm more rational then that. Because I'm not looking for validation to feel like people are picking on me. Because I know that what's written in these books, won't affect what's being coded into the game, anymore then previous codex entries are. And making a big stink about it just makes someone seem like a conspiracy nutter.l

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

*question and answer regarding WoT's objectivity snipped by the new quote system*

 

Come on...  8 pages.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I would argue that being as irrational and irrelevant as those two topics doesn't make his concerns any more valid.

 

@Lob, now you're being irrational even more then those other threads. You keep using the word ommited, as if this information was in a previous addition of WOT but was later removed, when this the first volume and first edition of the book, so I don't see what is being omitted here.

 

World of thedas condenses everything, it's meant to be a condensed and highly digestible collection of facts about the dragon age setting, not a massive DnD style guidebook. Blood magic is condescend in it's discussion as well, leaving out particulars on how one learns blood magic, the books and manuals written on the subject in the circle tower and elsewhere, the applications of the art beyond mind control, and a history or examples of famous historical blood mages. Do I draw from this that blood magic is going to no longer be a class specialization in the game? Or that blood magic will be reduced to evil magic only?

 

No, because I'm more rational then that. Because I'm not looking for validation to feel like people are picking on me. Because I know that what's written in these books, won't affect what's being coded into the game, anymore then previous codex entries are. And making a big stink about it just makes someone seem like a conspiracy nutter.l

 

The thing about the Codexes is that they're not meant to be objective, in-universe fact. Heck, I don't think a single game has been published where  all the Cardinal Rules of Magic were followed. This, on the other hand, is apparently meant to be solid fact, and apparently only tells the human version of the way the war started. That sounds to me like a confirmation of one story over the other. (Though while I happen to agree that removing that ambiguity was a poor choice, I don't think it's worth a 12 page thread.)

[LobselVith8]

I would argue that being as irrational and irrelevant as those two topics doesn't make his concerns any more valid.

 

I don't see the point in labeling what I've said as irrational or irrelevant. I'm simply expressing that I'm hoping for the Dalish protagonist to express points of view that represent where he came from. This is a forum intended for discussion, and this concerns Inquisition. I don't see why we all can't have a civil discussion, instead of turning this into some embittered argument where both sides shout at each other. That kind of language doesn't facilitate friendly discussions.

 

@Lob, now you're being irrational even more then those other threads. You keep using the word ommited, as if this information was in a previous addition of WOT but was later removed, when this the first volume and first edition of the book, so I don't see what is being omitted here.

 

I'm merely saying that some of the information in WoT doesn't come across on it's own, like the distinctions between how Andrastians view Spirits and Demons, and how the Dalish view all spirits as dangerous. It's made clear in the religious discussions between Anders and Merrill, but you have to be familiar with those specific discussions to understand what's intended with the particular line from WoT. I realize that a lot of time and effort went into making WoT, but I hope the truncated information (and the emphasis on Andrastian culture and viewpoints) isn't representative of the ideas, expressions, and options available with the non-human protagonists, like the Dalish Inquisitor.

 

World of thedas condenses everything, it's meant to be a condensed and highly digestible collection of facts about the dragon age setting, not a massive DnD style guidebook. Blood magic is condescend in it's discussion as well, leaving out particulars on how one learns blood magic, the books and manuals written on the subject in the circle tower and elsewhere, the applications of the art beyond mind control, and a history or examples of famous historical blood mages. Do I draw from this that blood magic is going to no longer be a class specialization in the game? Or that blood magic will be reduced to evil magic only?

 

Actually, I've read some posters say that they feel the developers might intend to turn blood magic into the 'dark side of the Force', based on the information revealed in WoT. I don't find it unusual that some would voice their concerns and opinions at a Dragon Age forum after reading World of Thedas.

 

No, because I'm more rational then that. Because I'm not looking for validation to feel like people are picking on me. Because I know that what's written in these books, won't affect what's being coded into the game, anymore then previous codex entries are. And making a big stink about it just makes someone seem like a conspiracy nutter.

 

You seem to be taking this a bit personally, and I'm sincerely not intending to offend anyone.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There's not a whole lot of new ground covered in World of Thedas. Much of the stuff on other cultures is stuff we already know, but the same is true for much of the stuff on humans.

 

The section on the elven religion exactly isn't cut off in sentence with the Chantry hierarchy, it's a separate section that is maybe a little bit awkwardly included on the page layout. And while that section is short, it starts off by saying most information on the elven religion is lost to time. So there's no as much information on it anyway.

 

The fact that there is much more lore on various human cultures is because there's much more to know. The book even tries to speculate on an in universe explanation for this by saying that humans seem to be the most diverse people in Thedas. And the the most demographically significant group gets the most coverage.

 

It's not like it's an exclusively Chantry centric book. We learn a far bit about Kal-Sharok, for example.

[wcholcombe]

I would argue that being as irrational and irrelevant as those two topics doesn't make his concerns any more valid.

 

@Lob, now you're being irrational even more then those other threads. You keep using the word ommited, as if this information was in a previous addition of WOT but was later removed, when this the first volume and first edition of the book, so I don't see what is being omitted here.

 

World of thedas condenses everything, it's meant to be a condensed and highly digestible collection of facts about the dragon age setting, not a massive DnD style guidebook. Blood magic is condescend in it's discussion as well, leaving out particulars on how one learns blood magic, the books and manuals written on the subject in the circle tower and elsewhere, the applications of the art beyond mind control, and a history or examples of famous historical blood mages. Do I draw from this that blood magic is going to no longer be a class specialization in the game? Or that blood magic will be reduced to evil magic only?

 

No, because I'm more rational then that. Because I'm not looking for validation to feel like people are picking on me. Because I know that what's written in these books, won't affect what's being coded into the game, anymore then previous codex entries are. And making a big stink about it just makes someone seem like a conspiracy nutter.l

Well, its a message board, what some people consider to be a rational concern vs. what others consider a rational concern differs widely and message boards for good or ill allow those concerns to be addressed.  Judging Lob on his concern about gameplay mechanic and how he wants to play his character isn't germain.  Geez, now I am defending Lob, next thing you know I will be picnicing with Xil.....

[Heimdall]

It's mostly an issue of the brevity of the Dalish views, from the condensed account of the fall of the Dales to the view of the Dalish seeing all spirits as dangerous being relegated to a single line: "Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." (page 104) The nuances concerning the differences in how the Dalish see spirits is addressed in the religious discussions between Anders and Merrill, but it's omitted from a book that's supposed to showcase the World of Thedas and it's inhabitants.
Even the section on the Elven Religion is even oddly interrupted by the sudden inclusion of the Chantry hierarchy in mid-sentence about the Creators.
Most of the information about the fall of the Dales is omitted as well, as you can tell from the condensed description of the fall of the Dales:
"Relations with the humans remained hostile, and the elven rejection of the Maker became cause for Chantry ire. The elves founded a legion, known as the Emerald Knights, to protect their land from human intrusion. Tensions mounted, and when a small elven raiding party attacked the human village of Red Crossing, the Chantry called an Exalted March to crush the elven people and conquer the Dales in a series of brutal battles." (page 28)
This is why I made the thread. I understand the likely difficulties that went into making the book, but I was just hoping the sparse information wasn't reflective of the Dalish Inquisitor's views being diluted to accommodate multiple voiced protagonists and an expansive trek from Ferelden to Orlais, since I know Andrastian human is the default. For example, it would be nice if the Dalish Inquisitor called it 'the Beyond', instead of calling it 'the Fade'.

See, I just don't understand the leap of logic that it would be reflective of such a change.

[dragonflight288]

Well, its a message board, what some people consider to be a rational concern vs. what others consider a rational concern differs widely and message boards for good or ill allow those concerns to be addressed.  Judging Lob on his concern about gameplay mechanic and how he wants to play his character isn't germain.  Geez, now I am defending Lob, next thing you know I will be picnicing with Xil.....

 

I'm sure it'll be a pleasant picnic so long as templars and mages aren't discussed. You can discuss something that is universally accepted like how bad the casteless have it. 

 

lol.

 

To be fair, based on Lob's original points and what he's been saying now, I do not see him as irrational or immature. He's genuinely trying to have a good discussion about the elven protagonist, and hopes that one with a Dalish background in the game reflects their background instead of the Andrastian human that we know is going to be the default.

 

It's no different than asking for a dwarven inquisitor who'll say "by the ancestors" or "Sod it," or "By the stone," or for a Qunari Inquisitor to have his own unique things. 

 

With voiced protagonists, this'll take a lot of work, but if it is done, I think it would be well worth the costs as it'll make the game more immersive to the players. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

The thing about the Codexes is that they're not meant to be objective, in-universe fact. Heck, I don't think a single game has been published where  all the Cardinal Rules of Magic were followed. This, on the other hand, is apparently meant to be solid fact, and apparently only tells the human version of the way the war started. That sounds to me like a confirmation of one story over the other. (Though while I happen to agree that removing that ambiguity was a poor choice, I don't think it's worth a 12 page thread.)

You of course understand, that given the objectivity of WoT, what they present is not the "human point of view", but actually the FACTS of how it happened?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

You of course understand, that given the objectivity of WoT, what they present is not the "human point of view", but actually the FACTS of how it happened?

 

Yes, that's rather the point.

[LobselVith8]

You of course understand, that given the objectivity of WoT, what they present is not the "human point of view", but actually the FACTS of how it happened?

 

The issue was about the sparse amount of Dalish perspective throughout the book, including their view on spirits, and how some information that has been brought forth and presented in the games wasn't included in WoT, like the differences between how Andrastians view the distinctions between Spirits and Demons being tied to their religious and cultural views, and how Dalish view all spirits as being dangerous (although, to it's credit, WoT address address their view of all spirits being dangerous has lead to the elven mages avoiding schools of magic that involve spirits).

 

I also felt the entry about the fall of the Dales was rather brief as well:

 

"Relations with the humans remained hostile, and the elven rejection of the Maker became cause for Chantry ire. The elves founded a legion, known as the Emerald Knights, to protect their land from human intrusion. Tensions mounted, and when a small elven raiding party attacked the human village of Red Crossing, the Chantry called an Exalted March to crush the elven people and conquer the Dales in a series of brutal battles." (page 28)

 

I'm not trying to knock WoT by any means. I purchased WoT, and I don't regret it. The point of the thread is, despite the voiced protagonists and the length of the game, I'm hoping the Dalish protagonist (as well as the other non-human racial options) will be true to their cultural and religious perspectives (with the player being able to shape their views, and whether or not they even follow their religious faith).

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm not trying to knock WoT by any means. I purchased WoT, and I don't regret it. The point of the thread is, despite the voiced protagonists and the length of the game, I'm hoping the Dalish protagonist (as well as the other non-human racial options) will be true to their cultural and religious perspectives (with the player being able to shape their views, and whether or not they even follow their religious faith).

 

Are we even going to be allowed to play a Dalish?

[LobselVith8]

Are we even going to be allowed to play a Dalish?

I've read numerous people say one of the developers acknowledged Dalish mage as one of the racial options, which is why some posters (in other threads) were wondering if other elven backgrounds would be available.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've read numerous people say one of the developers acknowledged Dalish mage as one of the racial options, which is why some posters (in other threads) were wondering if other elven backgrounds would be available.

Hopefully have a City Elf as the Rogue/Warrior.

[Master Warder Z_]

Hopefully have a City Elf as the Rogue/Warrior.

 

Agreed! Maybe with family fighting under Gaspard, that would lead to some interesting baseline PC backstory inflecting upon the tone of the base game, Much like in Orgins were the PC had family or companions or what have you involved in various plotlines or quests.

 

That said it wouldn't be needed, it would be something like Rica or Bhelen.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Agreed! Maybe with family fighting under Gaspard, that would lead to some interesting baseline PC backstory inflecting upon the tone of the base game, Much like in Orgins were the PC had family or companions or what have you involved in various plotlines or quests.

 

That said it wouldn't be needed, it would be something like Rica or Bhelen.

That would be interesting and explain why a City Elf would be so skilled. They were trained as a fighter for the coup. 

[Master Warder Z_]

That would be interesting and explain why a City Elf would be so skilled. They were trained as a fighter for the coup. 

 

I think it would be plausible enough personally but alas bioware doesn't pay me for my idea's. i pay them for their idea's.

 

Gaspard actually isn't a bad tactician using the elves as a fighting force, There are pockets of them through out the majority of Orlais in Alienages and if you marshal them together you can form something of an army, put it together with normal forces and you have a decent number of followers. Not to mention their eyes are supposedly sharper then a humans and they have decent reflexes, you could use them quite effectively as scouts or archers.

 

I suppose the credence of the rumor if or if not Gaspard using city elves in his army will be revealed one way or another in the Masked Empire, which i have just preodered 

[TK514]

I think those hoping to play an Oxman Mage will be disappointed, but I like the idea of a Dalish Mage to allow for a different cultural perspective. I feel like a City Elf Mage would end up too similar to a human Mage, as in Origins.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think those hoping to play an Oxman Mage will be disappointed, but I like the idea of a Dalish Mage to allow for a different cultural perspective. I feel like a City Elf Mage would end up too similar to a human Mage, as in Origins.

The only reason we're not allowed to play a dwarven mage is because they're incapable of magic, so why not a qunari mage? We've seen them use magic.

[TK514]

The only reason we're not allowed to play a dwarven mage is because they're incapable of magic, so why not a qunari mage? We've seen them use magic.

No reason I can point to, to be honest. Just a feeling I get based on the Qunari treatment of Mages. Certainly our characters won't be followers of the Qun, but I would expect a lifetime if institutionalized fear of Mages to remain, regardless, and their treatment of Mages to be similar to that of mainstream Qunari.

Not sure how people feel about playing a character who has had their tongue cut out, horns sawed off, and eyes and mouth sewn shut. Along with the magical straight jacket

As I say, though, I could be mistaken about any/all of that. It's really simply a hunch.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I hope so. I've even thought of a name for my Qunari Blood Mage. (Tal'Saar.)

[TK514]

I hope you get to play them

[Master Warder Z_]

I hope so. I've even thought of a name for my Qunari Blood Mage. (Tal'Saar.)

 

Considering Blood Magic is likely more frowned upon in Qunari lands as it is within Thedas, i'd say there aren't any "Qunari" Blood mages.

 

Pretty sure that would be something they would kill you for, i mean anything directly dealing with the consorting of Demons likely would be a beheadable sentence over there.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm pretty sure one of the devs confirmed you can play a Qunari mage.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They havn't confirmed Blood Mage specialization though.