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[Iron Fist]

I just hope I can be a City Elf...

 

There has only been talk of a Dalish MAGE. The elf warrior and rogue might be a city elf.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I just hope I can be a City Elf...

I think since the Mage will be Dalish, and for each race the Mage and Nonmage will have different backgrounds, being a Warrior/Rogue City Elf is a safe bet.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That is most certainly true, and there is a good reason the Templars were travelling with the missionaries. Most like thanks to the blight orlais was in a bit of disarray, so I doubt the normal law enforcement that guarded the countryside and borders of orlais would have been as strong as it used to be. Bandits and other unsavory sorts would look at the missionaries as easy targets if not for their armed escorts. And even the dales themselves are dangerous, since the dalish had made it quite clear when the blight was raging that they were no friends to the humans. I certainly wouldn't send anyone near the dales without at least some highly trained and armored protection.

 

It's, I think, one of the tragedies of history. That what could have been a simple misunderstanding was allowed to escalate into a full scale war, because neither side trusted the other to have any sort of goodwill within them. Though the fact that there are dalish accounts that would omit how they took over orlisian territory in the war is troubling to say the least.

Exactly.

[Navasha]

I guess I don't necessarily see those "two" versions as being mutually exclusive.   Both can actually be true.    I definitely can see the Chantry pressuring the elves to convert and I can see the Dalish responding to that pressure in an attack.    We won't likely know the actual event that triggered the attack, but history is often written differently based on who is doing the telling.  

 

The human version leaves out the coercion and forceful pressuring of the elves.   Based on the fanatical nature of people like Petrice (DA2), I can well imagine there was some underhanded back alley plot to convert them.    The elves possibly discovering this plot attacked the 'fanatic' and their town.  

 

The elven version remembers that it was the humans that started it, and the human version, which may not have uncovered the secret actions of their own participants, only saw the attack.  

 

Hence, both can easily be true, just seen from differing perspectives.

[wcholcombe]

The Dalish have oral and written history. They have a storyteller, like hahren Paivel, and written texts. Some Dalish codex entries are addressed as being written.

 

You also seem to be confusing my contention that there's more than one side to the story for something else entirely, as though my statement is somehow an argument about one historical version being correct, and another being incorrect. It's not, because I don't think anyone knows the truth, and that may not change unless one of the developers says otherwise.

 

My point is that I don't see why the Dalish Inquisitor can't express a viewpoint that matches with one that belongs to the Elvhen, whether it's a perspective of spirits and the Beyond, or one about the fall of the Dales.

I never said they couldn't.  My point was more about the idea that WoT is "Word of God" and is canon.  My comments were more in regard to the issue that some have with WoT in regards to the Dalish and seem to have the idea that the Dalish can do no wrong.  The dalish are just as capable of wrong doing as anyone else is my point and this is why I said that, the WoT doesn't mean your in game character can't express their point of view, just pointing out what WoT is.

[Sir JK]

I don't think you need to see WoT as indicative that the Dalish perpsective will be omitted from DAI. It's not a particularly detail account in that book, no. But given that even DA2 gave us more of the dalish perspective on things than that book did I do not think you need to be worried based on that. It's not as if the Orlesian account is particularly impressive either, but we're going to Orlais nonetheless. If all we learn about Orlais is what's in that book... then we'll barely see Orlais at all.

 

That's not a guarantee that it'll be enough for you or even what you expect, mind.

[wcholcombe]

His denigration of the Dalish for following their own gods instead of the Maker, and his proclamation that humans are the rightful masters of Thedas (which comes across as blatantly racist when non-humans live on Thedas) force me to respectfully disagree.

That is in game content, not WoT.  The developers have continually stated and state it in book that it is an objective factual recording of events.

[Lorien19]

I guess I don't necessarily see those "two" versions as being mutually exclusive.   Both can actually be true.    I definitely can see the Chantry pressuring the elves to convert and I can see the Dalish responding to that pressure in an attack.    We won't likely know the actual event that triggered the attack, but history is often written differently based on who is doing the telling.  

 

The human version leaves out the coercion and forceful pressuring of the elves.   Based on the fanatical nature of people like Petrice (DA2), I can well imagine there was some underhanded back alley plot to convert them.    The elves possibly discovering this plot attacked the 'fanatic' and their town.  

 

The elven version remembers that it was the humans that started it, and the human version, which may not have uncovered the secret actions of their own participants, only saw the attack.  

 

Hence, both can easily be true, just seen from differing perspectives.

^ This!

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I guess I don't necessarily see those "two" versions as being mutually exclusive.   Both can actually be true.    I definitely can see the Chantry pressuring the elves to convert and I can see the Dalish responding to that pressure in an attack.    We won't likely know the actual event that triggered the attack, but history is often written differently based on who is doing the telling.  

 

The human version leaves out the coercion and forceful pressuring of the elves.   Based on the fanatical nature of people like Petrice (DA2), I can well imagine there was some underhanded back alley plot to convert them.    The elves possibly discovering this plot attacked the 'fanatic' and their town.  

 

The elven version remembers that it was the humans that started it, and the human version, which may not have uncovered the secret actions of their own participants, only saw the attack.  

 

Hence, both can easily be true, just seen from differing perspectives.

 

Exactly. Especially since WoT doesn't place blame on one side or the other for the earliest border skirmishes that started the conflict.

[LobselVith8]

I never said they couldn't.  My point was more about the idea that WoT is "Word of God" and is canon.  My comments were more in regard to the issue that some have with WoT in regards to the Dalish and seem to have the idea that the Dalish can do no wrong.  The dalish are just as capable of wrong doing as anyone else is my point and this is why I said that, the WoT doesn't mean your in game character can't express their point of view, just pointing out what WoT is.

 

I'm not claiming that the Dalish historical account is correct, I'm simply pointing out there are two versions in Thedas, which WoT never addresses, even though we have a codex entry and an elven Warden who make this explicitly clear. I don't recall anyone else doing otherwise, aside from the people who interpreted WoT to mean that the developers were saying that the Chantry version was correct.

 

That aside, I don't think anyone doubts that the Dalish can be wrong. I do admit I've argued strongly in the favor of certain characters when it came to specific issues, but those situations were ones where I agreed with the respective character's goals. In the past, I've acknowledged that Zathrian was wrong, that Velanna was wrong (in both her views on humans as a whole and in attacking innocent people for something they didn't do), and that the Sabrae clan was wrong to try to murder Merrill and Hawke in cold blood. I'm fairly certain other posters agree that the Dalish can be wrong as well. Arguing that there are two historical accounts that detail the fall of the Dales doesn't mean that those posters think the Dalish (or elves in general) are infallible.

[Sir JK]

Arguing that there are two historical accounts that detail the fall of the Dales doesn't mean that those posters think the Dalish (or elves in general) are infallible.

 

I guess the problem is that it's often used to counter arguments against the Dalish, which makes it come across as a "not according to the Dalish". For instance, one of the most common uses of referencing it that I've seen is to deny that Red Crossing massacre happened. Despite that the dalish account does not in any way deny that event.

 

Of course, the Orlesian account is often used the same way against the Dalish one. Again, using events that is no way denying anything about the Dalish account.

 

After that point those discussion tend to devolve into referencing the favoured account without adressing anything about the other one. Despite that the accounts are in no way incompatible.

[LobselVith8]

I don't think you need to see WoT as indicative that the Dalish perpsective will be omitted from DAI. It's not a particularly detail account in that book, no. But given that even DA2 gave us more of the dalish perspective on things than that book did I do not think you need to be worried based on that. It's not as if the Orlesian account is particularly impressive either, but we're going to Orlais nonetheless. If all we learn about Orlais is what's in that book... then we'll barely see Orlais at all.

 

That's not a guarantee that it'll be enough for you or even what you expect, mind.

 

I agree that WoT is rather sparse with certain entries.

 

I'm certainly hoping that it's not reflective of the possible views of the Dalish Inquisitor, since it would be disappointing if the protagonist was elven in image only. I'm trying to be positive, since I rather enjoy the prospect of playing as one of the People.

[Sir JK]

I'm certainly hoping that it's not reflective of the possible views of the Dalish Inquisitor, since it would be disappointing if the protagonist was elven in image only. I'm trying to be positive, since I rather enjoy the prospect of playing as one of the People.

 

I'm personally of the opinion that unless you make the races different there's not much point in allowing a choice of race at all. So I certainly agree with the sentiment. However, the protagonist will not be a walking codex entry. They'll still use npcs and the codices themselves for that. We'll at best be able to glean aspects of the culture through our choices, but we'll need context to frame them. Just like in DAO.

 

I sort of expect DAO minus the origins (where the bulk of the lore were) to be what we can expect.

[The Elder King]

I agree that WoT is rather sparse with certain entries.
 
I'm certainly hoping that it's not reflective of the possible views of the Dalish Inquisitor, since it would be disappointing if the protagonist was elven in image only. I'm trying to be positive, since I rather enjoy the prospect of playing as one of the People.

Elven=/=Dalish. My City elf aren't less elven than my Dalish Wardens. I support completely having a dalish perspective, but that doesn't mean that without it an elf would be an elf only in Physical aspect.

[Shadow Fox]

I agree that WoT is rather sparse with certain entries.

 

I'm certainly hoping that it's not reflective of the possible views of the Dalish Inquisitor, since it would be disappointing if the protagonist was elven in image only. I'm trying to be positive, since I rather enjoy the prospect of playing as one of the People.

Keep in mind that the Dalish themselves aren't a hive mind and some may have differing opinions and attitudes about Dalish doctrine.

[LobselVith8]

Elven=/=Dalish. My City elf aren't less elven than my Dalish Wardens. I support completely having a dalish perspective, but that doesn't mean that without it an elf would be an elf only in Physical aspect.

 

I agree completely that the Alienage elves are also elven. What I wrote was in respect to facets of the nomadic elves, like their views on the Creators, the Forgotten Ones, spirits, the fall of the Dales, and those aspects, since they differ culturally and religiously from Andrastians.

 

As Sir JK once pointed out, there are a myriad of elven cultures out there from the schism with the Dalish: "We're going to have the lavish and extravagant Orlesian elves, the death-inspired Nevarran elves, devout Ander elves, freeminded Fereldan elves, diverse Marcher elves, trading Antivan elves and a handful of Rivaini elves. They're all going to have absorbed values and such from their 'host'-cultures. They're going to share the most fundamental things such as hahrens and Vhenadhals of course."

[The Elder King]

I agree completely that the Alienage elves are also elven. What I wrote was in respect to facets of the nomadic elves, like their views on the Creators, the Forgotten Ones, spirits, the fall of the Dales, and those aspects, since they differ culturally and religiously from Andrastians.
 
As Sir JK once pointed out, there are a myriad of elven cultures out there from the schism with the Dalish: "We're going to have the lavish and extravagant Orlesian elves, the death-inspired Nevarran elves, devout Ander elves, freeminded Fereldan elves, diverse Marcher elves, trading Antivan elves and a handful of Rivaini elves. They're all going to have absorbed values and such from their 'host'-cultures. They're going to share the most fundamental things such as hahrens and Vhenadhals of course."

Understood. As I said, I support the dalish perspective being present and the PC able to express it.

[LobselVith8]

Keep in mind that the Dalish themselves aren't a hive mind and some may have differing opinions and attitudes about Dalish doctrine.

 

Marethari and Merrill more than proved that point. I'm thinking more about their common interests as a people (in terms of the Creators, blood writing, and the like) as opposed to the ways in which the multitude of clans can differ from one another. Hopefully, there will be some freedom for the player to shape what kind of Dalish protagonist the Inquisitor can be.

[Mistic]

I'm certainly hoping that it's not reflective of the possible views of the Dalish Inquisitor, since it would be disappointing if the protagonist was elven in image only. I'm trying to be positive, since I rather enjoy the prospect of playing as one of the People.

 

It's not an unjustified fear, but let's hope for the best. So far, the only instance when we have played a Dalish protagonist has been in DA:O and they did it rather well. The vast majority of the dialogue was generic ("Who are you?", "Step back or I kill you", "What is an Archdemon?", etc.), but sometimes you had a reminder that the protagonist wasn't a WAH (White Andrastian Human).

 

But that's it, only reminders. Most of the dialogue would be generic for every race and I sincerely doubt that you will have the option to talk as a Dalish version of Sebastian.

[Mr.House]

That's certainly the Chantry version about the inception of the war with the Dales, but the Dalish version differs in saying there was human incursion on their sovereign territory. That's my point: there are two versions about the fall of the Dales, and even the elven Warden can express the alternative to the one espoused by the Chantry by saying the Dales was invaded because the elves refused to convert.

Just because there is two POVs does not mean they are both right. One is wrong and devs seem to be more close to the human POV being right. There is nothing wrong with this, in the end who really cares who started what? The fact is the elves lost and they paid the price all people pay when they lose a war.

[Herr Uhl]

Just because there is two POVs does not mean they are both right. One is wrong and devs seem to be more close to the human POV being right. There is nothing wrong with this, in the end who really cares who started what? The fact is the elves lost and they paid the price all people pay when they lose a war.

Few wars end in genocide.

[Shadow Fox]

It's not an unjustified fear, but let's hope for the best. So far, the only instance when we have played a Dalish protagonist has been in DA:O and they did it rather well. The vast majority of the dialogue was generic ("Who are you?", "Step back or I kill you", "What is an Archdemon?", etc.), but sometimes you had a reminder that the protagonist wasn't a WAH (White Andrastian Human).

 

But that's it, only reminders. Most of the dialogue would be generic for every race and I sincerely doubt that you will have the option to talk as a Dalish version of Sebastian.

Pretty much I'm just happy that the game acknowledged that I was a mage and/or an Elf or Dwarf.

[Master Warder Z_]

When it comes to the historical account the Dalish perspective likely wouldn't present anything new and therefore it isn't needed.

 

They started the War after all, The most you could glean would whatever petty mundane reasoning they threw together to justify it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yeah I think Origins did a decent job, I'm pretty sure I remember "Dalish" versions of both agreeing and disagreeing with npcs on various subjects like Leliana or that Chantry Sister offering blessings in Ostagar. The concern in Inquisition though is that a Dalish PC would almost certainly have the same voice as a non Dalish PC. I'm hoping they don't use the same voice for all races, but even if they don't do that, I can't imagine they'd use separate voices just for Dalish vs non dalish elves. You can sort of get around the retconed accents (like if the Dalish Mage is like Lanaya), but there would still probably have been recordings for a lot of different reactions.

 

If the Inquisitor stumbles across ancient ruins from the days of Arlathan for instance, it should be probably a profoundly moving moment. More so than other types of Inquisitors Who'd likely be more like "Well that sure is something." Almost like the reaction Dalish Wardens can have to returning to the Eluvian that tainted him or her in Witch Hunt compared to all other Wardens.