41 réponses à ce sujet

[Maiden Crowe]

Can we have less of them? Of course this would require finding more meaningful ways of padding out the game but surely the Dragon Age team can handle this can't they? Of course if you are in the middle of a major battle one would expect to be in combat quite frequently however in a dungeon crawl a better sense of atmosphere can be created by not swarming the player with enemies every 5 seconds.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Frak padding. Frak it to hell.

 

Long game time is meningless if it's padding. I'd rather have a shorter game without padding than a 200 long game in which you spend 150 of those hours fighting mobs whose sole purpose is to slow you down every time you travel anywhere.

[Zazzerka]

I'd like fewer enemies with larger health bars, so that you're actually having sword fights with dudes, rather than just cutting him down along with three of his mates in a single blow.

 

It's hard to sword fight a giant rat, though.

[Wulfram]

I agree.  Fights should have a reason to exist.  If not a strong story reason, then at least some sort of gameplay quirk that makes it different.

[Naesaki]

Gotta love Maiden Crowe threads.....

 

 

I do think we are past the whole "DA 2 Sky Attack Enemies" I think we are going to have more meaningful battles this time around.

[Grieving Natashina]

Gotta love Maiden Crowe threads.....

 

 

I do think we are past the whole "DA 2 Sky Attack Enemies" I think we are going to have more meaningful battles this time around.

Agreed, Pillsy  I mean Naesaki.

[KaiserShep]

Make the enemy the same as player character, have same skill progression, same combat technique, same magic, same level progression...

 

What matter is the AI

 

This works for bosses, but not the mooks, because they will always outnumber your team. It would be pretty frustrating to have every enemy be as powerful as the PC.

[Ravenfeeder]

Whilst I'm all for combats having meaning I really like having lots of enemies on screen. Or potentially on screen unless you've approached it correctly. Single 'boss' enemies are the most boring, frustrating battles, which often break the game rules to provide more of a 'challenge'.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I hope thing will go toward dao but more i see more dai reminds da 2.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I do think we are past the whole "DA 2 Sky Attack Enemies" I think we are going to have more meaningful battles this time around.

 

Legacy and MotA both had reasonable enemy "staging," or "blocking" to use a theater term.  I'm confident we'll see BioWare continue with that idea in DAI.

 

 

 

Whilst I'm all for combats having meaning I really like having lots of enemies on screen.

 

That's the hard part for BioWare, I think.  How do they make it fun to fight big swarms and really have your character look like a badass, which still having the combats make sense.  I'm betting the new engine handles many enemies for logically.  Since it's a next-gen engine, it should be better able to handle a modern PC's resources, so it should be nuts.

[CybAnt1]

Can we have less of them? 

 

[hexaligned]

I'd like fewer enemies with larger health bars, so that you're actually having sword fights with dudes, rather than just cutting him down along with three of his mates in a single blow.

 

It's hard to sword fight a giant rat, though.

 

I'm ok with one shot kills, as long as the enemy is capable of doing the same thing to the party.  Every encounter in the game (on normal) should be potentially deadly if you do not play well.  Engagements that are not, ya know, engaging, should be removed or changed, yes.

[Naesaki]

Agreed, Pillsy  I mean Naesaki.

hehe, I do love Pillsy, I wish he'd show up more often in neurotically yours, though Foamy and Germaine are awesome as well

[shodiswe]

In some cases trash mobs makes sense, maybe the "bad" guy picked up some beggars on the street and promised them money if the fought you. (not really expectign to have to pay them, they would jsut be there to slow you down while they complete some nasty ritual or setup some traps for you.

[Sidney]

Trash mobs are really only there to pad game length. Something like that interminable slog through the Deep Roads was awful. The saying that war is long moments of boredom punctuated by a few moments of sheer terror remains true with trash mobs but now it is the actual fighting that bores and no one really even perks up until you see a boss fight. I ran every almost every non-boss battle in DAO on a two line script: 1. Heal < 25% health 2. Attack Nearest by my second play through.

thing is trash mobs sell. I mean Skyrim is one long trash mob kill fest. Trash mobs let you talk about 50 hours of gameplay even if 30 of it is killing the same schleps over and over and over again. Trash mobs let all the people who love looting rip a few coppers from the pockets of dead bandits or yank the worn boots from their feet and think that is adding depth.

[nightscrawl]

Can we have less of them? Of course this would require finding more meaningful ways of padding out the game but surely the Dragon Age team can handle this can't they? Of course if you are in the middle of a major battle one would expect to be in combat quite frequently however in a dungeon crawl a better sense of atmosphere can be created by not swarming the player with enemies every 5 seconds.

 

I empathize with your desire for less trash, but it really depends on the location, doesn't it? Take the Deep Roads for example. There really should be a lot of darkspawn that we have to mow through if we go down there. In some areas there can be bandits or maybe wildlife. With the plot of DAI I fully expect there to be a lot of random demon trash because of the veil tears.

 

I think the key is to have logical and also varied trash. Trash that should be there, but also not the same kind of trash over and over again. Different mob types as well as different types of pulls would go a long way to helping with the monotony that DA2 trash caused. And you know... also no raining men.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I object to the desgination "trash mob".  The enemies we might face in the game should suit the setting, regardless of what their relative level might be.

 

If it makes sense for the valley to be filled with low-level darkspawn, then the valley should be filled with low-level darkspawn.  If that's enough to overwhelm us, fine.  If we're powerful enough to destroy them easily, fine.  But either way, the contents of the valley should not change or be affected in any way by our level.

 

Low-level enemies also help provide us with a sense of progress.

[Naesaki]

I object to the designation "trash mob".  

Kinda feels like people apply it to everything thats between you and a boss encounter these days. But in terms of the "trash mobs" it should really depend on the locale, If you're in a wind open prairie / field, there shouldn't be like a massive herd of enemies just waiting to leap out of thin air, while at the same time like people have said, when it comes to the darkspawn, you should expect to be constantly harassed by them when in the deep roads or a confined valley were you are aware they frequent, and maybe now in DA : I if you're in an area where the veil has been seriously torn, you should expect to encounter a fair amount of fade spirits and other monstrosities 

[Sidney]

I empathize with your desire for less trash, but it really depends on the location, doesn't it? Take the Deep Roads for example. There really should be a lot of darkspawn that we have to mow through if we go down there. In some areas there can be bandits or maybe wildlife. With the plot of DAI I fully expect there to be a lot of random demon trash because of the veil tears.
 
I think the key is to have logical and also varied trash. Trash that should be there, but also not the same kind of trash over and over again. Different mob types as well as different types of pulls would go a long way to helping with the monotony that DA2 trash caused. And you know... also no raining men.

It isn't even the varied type of trash as opposed to a different challenge posed by the trash. If I am in a bandit hideout I expect to fight bandits. I bores me with the trash mobs is less the actual mobs than the encounter design where you get a rinse, lather, repeat of open door, see X bandits, kill with generic tactics, open door......

It is one of the do saddest things about the DA2 waves is that they are a good thing, when applied correctly, to create the feel of a reactive rather than passive environment you are fighting in - and obviously most of the time DA2 did it wrong. I liked the fight where the bad guys had an improvised fortification and grease for a fire laid in front of them in one location. That, again, braks up the generic approach.

[Wulfram]

I object to the desgination "trash mob".  The enemies we might face in the game should suit the setting, regardless of what their relative level might be.

 

If it makes sense for the valley to be filled with low-level darkspawn, then the valley should be filled with low-level darkspawn.  If that's enough to overwhelm us, fine.  If we're powerful enough to destroy them easily, fine.  But either way, the contents of the valley should not change or be affected in any way by our level.

 

Low-level enemies also help provide us with a sense of progress.

 

Yes, but

 

1.  That doesn't excuse all the other areas that are full of random bandits, wolves, bears and giant spiders just because this is an RPG and thus we must suffer a pointless fight every 20 meters.  Particularly when this is supposed to be taking place right next to a peaceful village or town.

 

2.  Why can't those darkspawn get together, rather than being split in conveniently easy to defeat groups, and have a few tougher characters in support, so that they pose an actual challenge?  And maybe some decent combat design so that the fights don't feel all the same?

 

Also, how about some stealth options so we can skip those fights?

Oh, and it quite probably could make sense if the fights got tougher as the game went on, to reflect the deterioration of the situation.  Though ideally it would be more a case of more, and more powerful, reinforcements arriving, rather than enemies just getting a level boost.

[EmissaryofLies]

I guess it's time to

 

*puts on sunglasses*

 

take out the trash.

[Kimarous]

Depends on what you mean by "trash mobs." Bajilions of low-level enemies just to pad out a dungeon? We could do without that. A couple of spare, respawning mobs in certain locations to get that extra little bit of experience to reach the next level? That I'd appreciate. One of the things that bug me in certain games is when there's a limited number of non-respawning enemies, thereby compelling you to kill everything to max your character out, as roleplaying otherwise might mean you'll be too weak for late-game challenges.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes, but

 

1.  That doesn't excuse all the other areas that are full of random bandits, wolves, bears and giant spiders just because this is an RPG and thus we must suffer a pointless fight every 20 meters.  Particularly when this is supposed to be taking place right next to a peaceful village or town.

 

2.  Why can't those darkspawn get together, rather than being split in conveniently easy to defeat groups, and have a few tougher characters in support, so that they pose an actual challenge?  And maybe some decent combat design so that the fights don't feel all the same?

Absolutely.

 

But similarly, if there are bandits hiding by the side of the road, those bandits are prepared to deal with mechants and low-level caravan guards, not the Inquisition.  If they choose to fight (and they shouldn't - they should run away), they should not be a significant challenge.

[Sidney]

Absolutely.
 
But similarly, if there are bandits hiding by the side of the road, those bandits are prepared to deal with mechants and low-level caravan guards, not the Inquisition.  If they choose to fight (and they shouldn't - they should run away), they should not be a significant challenge.

Well and this is about level scaling. That encounter is more about a living world than slogging through waves of generic foes.

it amazed me in Denerim to see how tough the back alley bandits are. Don't even get me started on those glass armor wearing SOBs in Oblivion. I can see if they fight, because they might misjudge how powerful you are but really more fights need to have a "run away" outcome instead of having every type of foe fight to the death.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Well and this is about level scaling. That encounter is more about a living world than slogging through waves of generic foes.

Granted.  In the Deep Roads, for example, is it necessary for us to fight a room full of trivial darkspawn every 30 metres?  This is partly why I thought the Deep Roads should have been longer - to spread out the encounters more so they didn't feel contrived.