I understand. But the DR as a choice, especially since this is the final choice of the game, should be given the kind of attention it deserves.And I hope this works out for you, I just don't want it to be the "golden" choice, if you understand me.
And I hope this works out for you, I just don't want it to be the "golden" choice, if you understand me.
Isn't the sort of default the dalish elf warden who made alistair king and did the sacrifice? Or at least that was the default to pick for da2 or something, I forget.
Isn't the sort of default the dalish elf warden who made alistair king and did the sacrifice? Or at least that was the default to pick for da2 or something, I forget.
Yup, one of the default origins for DA2.
I think the mindset for those who chose the DR was more of a
"I want to know more about the mystery of the Old Gods" rather than "I don't want to die".
Because you can just have Alistair or Loghain die in your place. That's the way I was looking at it when I chose the DR. I don't mind dying if my death means and contributes something to the overall plot of the series, meaning I was ready to make the Ultimate Sacrifice, but since the game presented me with an alternate choice that not only could save me, but also give me the opportunity to explore the lore, well the choice was pretty clear to me. As soon as the DR was presented to me, I instantly thought that Dragon Age has a few more stories to tell, and the OGB is one of them.
I think the developers should consider this mindset while making content for the OGB as I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought like this while tackling the DR choice in the first game.
That is a valid reason for a PLAYER to take the option.
But the justification for the character is flimsy and doesn't really work.
Having thought about it, I've come to the (very likely) controversial conclusion that any Warden who takes the DR option isn't truly a Grey Warden because they're not ending the threat; you kind of just kicked it down the road - or worse, you've given it a form that is easier to blend in with the rest of the world.
That's not even considering who is offering the Dark Ritual and would raise the result of it.
Is the archdemon gone? Yes? Then one's duty has been fulfilled.
And, strange though it may sound, I ultimately trust Morrigan.
That is a valid reason for a PLAYER to take the option.
But the justification for the character is flimsy and doesn't really work.
My mage has that motivation IC. My Dalish, by contrast, after having to kill Tamlen, doesn't want to see anyone die tainted if possible, and that includes an Old God.
Dead is dead.
It doesn't matter if you run a sword trough someone untainted or tainted.
Not to mention that old gods are Tevinter gods. The Tevinter that sank Arlathan. Not much incentive for a Dalish to save an Old God.
"And wanting to find out more" is a horrible motivation for the action.
Imagine if C'thulu was real and I wanted to find out more, so I summoned him to sate my curiosity? Instead of...ya know.. reading books and so forth?
Dead is dead.
It doesn't matter if you run a sword trough someone untainted or tainted.
Not to mention that old gods are Tevinter gods. The Tevinter that sank Arlathan. Not much incentive for a Dalish to save an Old God.
"And wanting to find out more" is a horrible motivation for the action.
Imagine if C'thulu was real and I wanted to find out more, so I summoned him to sate my curiosity? Instead of...ya know.. reading books and so forth?
No books are available on the subject, at least none sufficient. In any case, the Old Gods were never inherently destructive in the way that the darkspawn were. As for my Dalish, don't be hating just because she has empathy.
I think all three stories should be equally valid. I hope that not romancing Morrigan or doing the ritual doesn't result in a vaccuum of content, which is why I've never denied recruiting my party members. Hopefully we'll get one branch for not having her son, one for her son being normal, and a third for having done the ritual.
Is the archdemon gone? Yes? Then one's duty has been fulfilled.
And, strange though it may sound, I ultimately trust Morrigan.
My mage has that motivation IC. My Dalish, by contrast, after having to kill Tamlen, doesn't want to see anyone die tainted if possible, and that includes an Old God.
The archdemon is gone, but there's still the chance that the child can be tainted. And then you end up with a magical archdemon in human form.
It isn't a matter of trusting her or not, it's a matter of her abilities to raise a god child, keep it safe from darkspawn/taint (assuming that it may still emit an Old God song), keep it safe from Flemeth and her sisters, etc.
I hope you are right so very very much. Probably my biggest concern heading into Inquisition is this very plot line. I chose not to accept Morrigans offer, and it worries me that I may be punished for this choice in the form of lack of access to content, storytelling, or positive outcomes. I will be so very sad if it turns out that the OGB is the only way to solve some conflict in Inquisition, with no equal choices for worlds in which he does not exist. I just really want my wardens sacrifice to be ultimately meaningful, and not a mistake.
I have never refused to recruit a party member. Why would I? That's just quests and combat help I don't get. If I were to, say, not recruit Leliana, I would expect not to meet Marjolaine in Origins. The ritual is different, though. I expect my endings to have reprocussions.
For instance, we'll say there are three settings. The first is that Morrigan's plans have fumbled and she needs to readjust, after all, her son can't have a destiny if he doesn't exist. So she has the inquisitor help her change them. Let's say now that she has the grimoire, she needs Flemeth's staff, not Flemeth's Broomstick from Witch Hunt, but her weapon, and you take her along in Inquisition to get it.
The second is that the warden romanced her, but didn't do the ritual. Word gets out the child is that of the warden, or has claim to the throne through the warden, Alistair, or Loghain, or some such. Someone thinks they'll get a good ransom for him or gets notions of setting up a puppet-prince, and he gets kidnapped. The inquisitor has to get him back for Morrigan.
The third is when the ritual was taken, and Morrigan needs help preparing him for his "destiny." Maybe you need to get Flemeth's staff for him, or maybe someone finds out what he is and kidnaps him.
I'd also like to see him look different based on his father. Dark-haired if his father was Loghain or a human warden, light-haired if his father was Alistair, tall for a dwarf and short for a human if the warden was a dwarf, or Feynriel-like if the warden was an elf.
In all likelihood, though, to simplify programming, he's going to look like his mother.
I hope you are right so very very much. Probably my biggest concern heading into Inquisition is this very plot line. I chose not to accept Morrigans offer, and it worries me that I may be punished for this choice in the form of lack of access to content, storytelling, or positive outcomes. I will be so very sad if it turns out that the OGB is the only way to solve some conflict in Inquisition, with no equal choices for worlds in which he does not exist. I just really want my wardens sacrifice to be ultimately meaningful, and not a mistake.
They're probably aiming for "The DR is right if you subscribe to a certain (non-evil) philosophy, the US is right if you subscribe to a different (non-evil) philosophy."I want them to show that the DR is an alternative path that's just as interesting as US, not have DR basically be the "right" choice.
No books are available on the subject, at least none sufficient. In any case, the Old Gods were never inherently destructive in the way that the darkspawn were. As for my Dalish, don't be hating just because she has empathy.
Sez who?
Tevinter was a massive empire and they worshiped the old gods. There's got to be tons of book and information on the subject.
And no, I hate her because she has stupid.
There's a difference between trust and redicolous, blind trust.
There's a difference between harmless curiosity and endangering the world because of lols.
Sez who?
Tevinter was a massive empire and they worshiped the old gods. There's got to be tons of book and information on the subject.
And no, I hate her because she has stupid.
There's a difference between trust and redicolous, blind trust.
There's a difference between harmless curiosity and endangering the world because of lols.
None that we've ever heard of, and it's likely the Chantry destroyed all of it.
I'm also not endangering the world to any significant degree. In fact, the knowledge and power that such a being might hold may well be key to defeating the darkspawn once and for all; after all, the song of the Old Gods has been a major distraction for the darkspawn that's kept a great many of them digging around looking for them, as opposed to joining their fellows in swamping Orzammar. When all the Old Gods are gone, the darkspawn will have nothing else to do but wipe out the dwarves, and then move onto the surface.
None that we've ever heard of, and it's likely the Chantry destroyed all of it.
I'm also not endangering the world to any significant degree. In fact, the knowledge and power that such a being might hold may well be key to defeating the darkspawn once and for all; after all, the song of the Old Gods has been a major distraction for the darkspawn that's kept a great many of them digging around looking for them, as opposed to joining their fellows in swamping Orzammar. When all the Old Gods are gone, the darkspawn will have nothing else to do but wipe out the dwarves, and then move onto the surface.
I share this concern, but disagree that the OGB is an acceptable risk. Surprise surprise.
Also, what's that phrase.."Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Just because we've not had the opportunity to delve into historical and scholarly texts, contemporary or ancient, regarding the subject of the Old Gods does not mean such texts do not exist. There are whole libraries we have visited and been unable to read, and over half a continent we've never even laid eyes on. Plenty of places yet to find such information should the developers deem it necessary.
Perhaps, but none of it is accessible at the time of the decision and we can't determine what we might or might not learn; I believe it's better to preserve this for now.
Perhaps, but none of it is accessible at the time of the decision and we can't determine what we might or might not learn; I believe it's better to preserve this for now.
I can see your point of view, and to an extent I could agree with it. Ultimately, Morrigan is the deciding factor against, in my eyes. We could go around and around regarding our opinions of her, but the bottom line is I do not trust her, and I certainly wouldn't trust her to raise a child, old god or not.
Having maxed my approval with her, I think that I can ultimately trust her. She's better than she gives herself credit for, and certainly better than Flemeth.
Having maxed my approval with her, I think that I can ultimately trust her. She's better than she gives herself credit for, and certainly better than Flemeth.
She has you kill your savior (Flemeth) and I thought there was an implication that she was manipulating the Warden. Shale even brings it up in party dialog.
Out of character knowledge indicates that whatever she was expecting to be in Flemeth's grimoire is worthless to her anyway (refuse to dance to Flemeth or Morrigan's tune: take the Grimoire, let Flemeth live, tell Morrigan the truth about it. Throwing all sort of spanners into the work).
She has you kill your savior (Flemeth) and I thought there was an implication that she was manipulating the Warden. Shale even brings it up in party dialog.
Out of character knowledge indicates that whatever she was expecting to be in Flemeth's grimoire is worthless to her anyway (refuse to dance to Flemeth or Morrigan's tune: take the Grimoire, let Flemeth live, tell Morrigan the truth about it. Throwing all sort of spanners into the work).
There's really no secret made about the fact that Flemeth won't really die, and Flemeth doesn't even seem to particularly mind the prospect. And I have no knowledge that whatever they're working on will actually be harmful to me; IC, I believe I would have seen Morrigan's facade crack more if she thought I'd come to harm.
Having maxed my approval with her, I think that I can ultimately trust her. She's better than she gives herself credit for, and certainly better than Flemeth.
I disagree with that. I think Morrigan is far more dangerous than Flemeth. Flemeth has been at this game for a long long time and hasn't destroyed the world or shaken it to its foundations yet. She tends to indirectly influence by playing the game from behind the curtain.
Morrigan on the other hand is a bit of a wild card and is trying to establish herself, and possibly make herself into a rival for Flemeth who knows. She has far more reason from what we know to mislead the character then Flemeth does.
We could very easily wind up with a game where Flemeth and Morrigan are direct antagonists against each other and we have to pick a side. I doubt it as it would be really really insulting to Flemeth to put Morrigan on equal footing with her.
In the end I don't really know, but at this point while I like them both, if I had to choose one over the other, I would choose Flemeth.
Having maxed my approval with her, I think that I can ultimately trust her. She's better than she gives herself credit for, and certainly better than Flemeth.
My Warden owes her a debt for his life, and for the life of his son. Nothing more. My Inquisitor has no such ties, and will treat her warily. I don't know what the hell she's been up to for the past decade.
There's really no secret made about the fact that Flemeth won't really die, and Flemeth doesn't even seem to particularly mind the prospect. And I have no knowledge that whatever they're working on will actually be harmful to me; IC, I believe I would have seen Morrigan's facade crack more if she thought I'd come to harm.
She says that after the fact, if I recall correctly. Flemeth is more amused if you turn the tables on Morrigan and let her think she was dead.
I disagree with that. I think Morrigan is far more dangerous than Flemeth. Flemeth has been at this game for a long long time and hasn't destroyed the world or shaken it to its foundations yet. She tends to indirectly influence by playing the game from behind the curtain.
Morrigan on the other hand is a bit of a wild card and is trying to establish herself, and possibly make herself into a rival for Flemeth who knows. She has far more reason from what we know to mislead the character then Flemeth does.
We could very easily wind up with a game where Flemeth and Morrigan are direct antagonists against each other and we have to pick a side. I doubt it as it would be really really insulting to Flemeth to put Morrigan on equal footing with her.
In the end I don't really know, but at this point while I like them both, if I had to choose one over the other, I would choose Flemeth.
I see no reason to believe that Morrigan would do anything leading to the destruction of the world.
I disagree. This is a woman who, even if you max her approval and romance her, theoretically being her closest companion and confidant, still abandons you and the world to the Blight if you don't give her what she wants. She knows that the very next day you are going into a battle that could determine the fate of hundreds of thousands of lives, potentially over the course of decades or longer, where every person could spell the difference between victory and horror, and she tries to extort you with it, and then throws it all away if you disagree.
This is a woman who would risk letting a continent die just because she doesn't get her way. That's not someone I consider trustworthy.
If you're using that to make moral judgments, you'd have to distrust everyone except Sten and, to an extent, Oghren. And if you refuse the offer, you basically say that you don't need her anyway.
She says that after the fact, if I recall correctly. Flemeth is more amused if you turn the tables on Morrigan and let her think she was dead.
Morrigan specifically says "I doubt she will truly be dead even then" even beforehand if you ask her the right things.
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