Guest_StreetMagic_*
One thing I'm a little disappointed about is how people are so quick to criticize those who want the Ritual to matter. I'm not a big fan of it, but hell.. they're right. It was a pretty defining moment of DAO. To act like it should be handwaved so easily is a bit unfair.
I don't want DA to make the same handwavey mistakes ME did. Even if some of these choices don't matter to me, I want to believe they had more planning done than the Mass Effect team.
I only read the Warden mentioned twice in the post Dragon Age Origins book Asunder. Wynn mentions once that she received a magical staff that the other mages are impressed with as a gift from The Warden. And another time she mentions fighting along side the Hero of Ferelden against the archdemon on top of Fort Drakon. That's it. No gender, race or class, and other than fighting the archdemon, nothing about possible warden's decisions that could have been considered canon. Other than the fact that you didn't kill Wynn at the circle when you told her to wait for the annulment. So saving the circle can be considered canon.
One thing I'm a little disappointed about is how people are so quick to criticize those who want the Ritual to matter. I'm not a big fan of it, but hell.. they're right. It was a pretty defining moment of DAO. To act like it should be handwaved so easily is a bit unfair.
I don't want DA to make the same handwavey mistakes ME did. Even if some of these choices don't matter to me, I want to believe they had more planning done than the Mass Effect team.
We don't know what makes it special, that's why it's so important that we find out. We know Morrigan considered it significant to have a child with the soul of an Old God, whatever that means. Morrigan comes across as not making small plans, so there's a reasonable expectation of seeing it as significant for more than just her.
Witch Hunt says it's a boy, BTW.
But what if the OGB is NOT special?
Here, everyone who's pro-OGB is thinking:
"Ohhh! Child raised by Morrigan who happens to have the soul of an Old god! OF COURSE he has to be monumentally important to the WORLD OF THEDAS!"
What if he's not?
What if the only significance the OGB child has is to Morrigan....as a way to keep Flemeth off her back, or as a way for Morrigan to achieve immortality herself without having to raise a new daughter and eat her every couple of decades? Or like she says, to save something from not existing (what if the OG soul in a human vessel is different than the OG soul in the dragon?)
Don't get me wrong, I have wardens who did (or had Alistair/Logain do) the DR, or who decided to US. So I'd like to see the choice matter.....but I just don't think it's this huge earth/lore shattering event that everyone seems to think. It can't be, or Bioware would have to make a cannon choice for the world state going forward (and they have said they won't) or write two totally different games (unless it gets handled as an optional companion DLC).
Guest_StreetMagic_*
This is fantasy literature. Children concieved in secret through magical rituals or other strange means tend not to merely amount to "nothing". It's as old as Greek myths and Arthurian legend.
This is fantasy literature. Children concieved in secret through magical rituals or other strange means tend not to merely amount to "nothing". It's as old as Greek myths and Arthurian legend.
And maybe it's time to toss 'convention' out on it's butt.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
And maybe it's time to toss 'convention' out on it's butt.
I don't mean to point to convention. I just mean to point out the recognizable potential for drama. Dragon Age in general taps into a lot of old archetypes. That's part of it's charm. OGB is just one of them.
...
I thinkw e naturally assume that the OGB is a big deal because of how it was presented to us, because of its build up, especially during the DR night and the Witch Hunt DLC, and not counting that a King, the last of the Theirin's line at that(well, actually there is a half-elf Theirin somewhere but dunno), may die because of the child not being coinceived
In any given form of entertainment if something is presented and build as this was and, in the end, it turns out it is nothing special(again Iron Man 3 for example) someone is bound to be disappointed, and rightly so
But what if the OGB is NOT special?
Here, everyone who's pro-OGB is thinking:
"Ohhh! Child raised by Morrigan who happens to have the soul of an Old god! OF COURSE he has to be monumentally important to the WORLD OF THEDAS!"
What if he's not?
What if the only significance the OGB child has is to Morrigan....as a way to keep Flemeth off her back, or as a way for Morrigan to achieve immortality herself without having to raise a new daughter and eat her every couple of decades? Or like she says, to save something from not existing (what if the OG soul in a human vessel is different than the OG soul in the dragon?)
Don't get me wrong, I have wardens who did (or had Alistair/Logain do) the DR, or who decided to US. So I'd like to see the choice matter.....but I just don't think it's this huge earth/lore shattering event that everyone seems to think. It can't be, or Bioware would have to make a cannon choice for the world state going forward (and they have said they won't) or write two totally different games (unless it gets handled as an optional companion DLC).
Except when Morrigan is about to go through the eluvian she mentions that the child has a destiny and she's preparing him for what is to come. Of course it's all vague as with anything that comes out of Morrigan or Flemeth's mouth but it certainly leaves the impression that OGB is important.
The thought that he might not be important or even relevant seems like a huge waste of potential. It's like having the legend of Camelot without the incest-baby Mordred. It can be done, it has been done, but it's never as compelling of a story as when that detail is put in.
Except when Morrigan is about to go through the eluvian she mentions that the child has a destiny and she's preparing him for what is to come. Of course it's all vague as with anything that comes out of Morrigan or Flemeth's mouth but it certainly leaves the impression that OGB is important.
.........
For those that haven't played the WH DLC....that info doesn't exist.
And his 'destiny to come' could be nothing more than becoming the best Pie Man in all of Thedas, or inventing a flying machine/fireworks.
For those that haven't played the WH DLC....that info doesn't exist.
And his 'destiny to come' could be nothing more than becoming the best Pie Man in all of Thedas, or inventing a flying machine/fireworks.
Nope, Arrival happens even if you don't play the DLC, something like the destiny of an individual, in this case the OGB, does not change because the player does not hear about it
And as i already wrote, since DA is a story written by people and not the real world something with that build up simply can not be irrelevant
Nope, Arrival happens even if you don't play the DLC, something like the destiny of an individual, in this case the OGB, does not change because the player does not hear about it
And as i already wrote, since DA is a story written by people and not the real world something with that build up simply can not be irrelevant
Or could be, Just like Arrival.
Bioware will decide what is important or no.
God has spoken.
This is fantasy literature. Children concieved in secret through magical rituals or other strange means tend not to merely amount to "nothing". It's as old as Greek myths and Arthurian legend.
The only reason Mordred amounted to anything is he or his mother coveted the throne and tried to steal it from Arthur.
may be helped by in the future (tactical decision). Or something.
The only reason Mordred amounted to anything is he or his mother coveted the throne and tried to steal it from Arthur.
The only reason Mordred amounted to anything is he or his mother coveted the throne and tried to steal it from Arthur.
He was also the namesake for one of the coolest Knightmare Frames in Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.
I agree with the original post. For such a huge twist in Origins, I'm kinda surprised that it's an optional aspect of the plot. In fact, without the OGB in Origins, the plot would've just felt rather "plain" - Gather army, bring army to battlefield, kill archdemon.
Anyway, this is kinda like a "Flemeth" thing. In Origins, whether or not you choose to kill Flemeth, the end is always the same - She lives. Why? Because she's probably a key figure in future storylines. She CAN'T die, at least not yet, not until she's done her part in the story.
I'm kinda sad to say that this MIGHT not be the case for the OGB, because in this case, this person CAN die. As in ogb is not "essential" enough to be protected by plot armor, despite the fact that we are talking about an OLD GOD here.
Edit:
Another problem that could arise from all this, is how will Bioware is going to show the OGB's importance.
I'm all for OGB baby content, in fact, if future games get a DLC about the ogb, I'll gladly buy it instead of just checking the decisions off in the Keep. But having said that I don't want the OGB being written off as evil plain and simple. I believe that something so central in the lore (Old Gods) can be explored much more deeply than just passing it as a threat.
I can understand why the DR is evil in a way. I know that the Grey Wardens are noble warriors willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, and the the DR is somewhat like an act of selfishness on the Warden's part. But it's best to avoid looking the DR with only that lens. The Old God Baby should be more than a simple consequence.
I don't want the OGB story to turn into a Beowulf story, where Beowulf (Warden) gives in to Grendel's mother (Morrigan) and gives her a son(OGB), and ends up paying for it in the future. And it's kinda funny because the son becomes a dragon (like an old god) , so all that is dangerously similar to the DR - which is a very bad thing because there are a significant amount of people who saw the DR as an extended story that delves into the lore (mystery-solving) , rather than just a way to save their Wardens in the finale.
No matter what BioWare does, people are going to be dissapointed.
Ultimatively, poeple want justification for their actions - there there will be those who want the OGB to be good, with good things coming out of it, and those who want the opposite.
Trying to portray things as neither good or evil is tough as hell - impossible in 99,99% of cases.
First of all, subjective morality.
Second, skewed priorities and wight/importance given to different things.
I for one never did see the Dark Ritual and the creation of the OGB as good. Those who did it claim they where protecting something "pure and ancient".
With nothing but Morrigans word - a woman proven to be duplicious, willing to lie and act, a woman of no morals, AND a woman that outright refused to give you details.
So in order to preserve the untainted (Morrigans claim) soul of the old god, you have to engage in a magical ritual involving blood magic (details about Morrigan does not provide ), have sex with her to produce a baby that will take on the soul of the gold god (with the fate of the soul of the baby in question, but according to everything, destroyed).
Then you have to let her go with basicly a god in tow, for her to raise as she sees fit (and do whatever she wants)
There are so many IF's and MAYBE's in this that following trough is nothing but lunacy. So many points of failure and unknowns, so many risks for TheDas...and for what?
For a chance to preserve the soul of an Archdemon/Old God? If that's even what you are doing. Again, only Morrigans word.
And letting HER raise it? A woman who has no qualms about murdering slaves for power?
Thinking she will raise the OGB to be a champion of good? That is, if that is her plan to begin with. For all we know she may sacrifice it in another ritual - lord knows murdering others for power is not beneath her.
And yet people still think it's a "good" idea?
Not by any logical or moral criteria I'm aware of. The pros/cons and risk/reward ratio is so horribly unbalanced.
Everything about the DR rests on complete trust in Morrigan. And many a Warden apparently thinks with their "little warden", rather than their brain.
He was also the namesake for one of the coolest Knightmare Frames in Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.
WTH does this have to do with anything?
And, just like life, we all want things in life and for people to act in certain ways that we want them to. And we go through life reminded again and again, that is not how life works. But it is how we handle life and it's disappointments that is important. What if Morrigan decideds to unleashes the OGB-WMD on the Chantry and its templars. Would that be so bad? How would we handle that?No matter what BioWare does, people are going to be dissapointed.
Ultimatively, poeple want justification for their actions - there there will be those who want the OGB to be good, with good things coming out of it, and those who want the opposite.
As for wanting justification: I would indeed prefer that, yes, but what I feel I need (rather than just want) is much weaker: I do not want to be slapped in the face by the story by its telling me that what I did because it's interesting was actually evil. I do not want my belief that intangible evils don't exist explicitly denied. I do not need it justified within the story - I can do that quite easily on my own - but I do want a scenario where such a justification appears reasonable instead of delusional. An outcome which can be viewed as good through the lens of a certain philosophical position would achieve that, rather than an undeniably good outcome.
He was also the namesake for one of the coolest Knightmare Frames in Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.
Knightmare Frames are just pathetic rip offs of their taller mobile suit cousins.
Now a Gelgoog? That's a Mecha.
Knightmare Frames are just pathetic rip offs of their taller mobile suit cousins.
Now a Gelgoog? That's a Mecha.
I must disagree, god sir. If we calculate power to size ratio...
*goes off into hours of discussion*
...we can conclude that KMFs are as good as the MS cousins.
I must disagree, god sir. If we calculate power to size ratio...
*goes off into hours of discussion*
...we can conclude that KMFs are as good as the MS cousins.
"God sir" I like that 
In all seriousness i'd argue that given most MS run off of Ultra compact Fusion or Fission reactors compared to the Yggdrasil Drive a fictional energy conveyance powered by an unknown material generating unknown amounts of energy. But i'd point out we can see how much energy it would take to move a 20 foot tall object compared to what would move a fifty to sixty foot tall object, and generally those with greater mass require more power for movement.
<_<'' Those Knightmares are adorable little midgets compared to a good old fashioned MS.
I like Mecha o.o
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