139 réponses à ce sujet

[CptFalconPunch]

Each series has it's points, but ME2 just edges out ME3 and is far ahead of ME1. So many of my favourite characters are introduced in ME2 - Thane, Miranda, Jack, Mordin, Donnelly, Gabby, Kelly. My original playthrough LI Liara was sadly missing which lead me to the femme fatale that is Ms. Lawson. I never really felt much for Tali in ME1 but she grew on me in ME2. As did Garrus. LoTSB and Stolen Memory are in my top 3 favourite DLCs. While the combat system is second to ME3 it's way better than the inventory mess that was ME1.

 

I think the thing that sealed it for me was the Salarian performance of HMS Pinafore! I got that on my second play through and totally didn't see it coming.

 

Many have said that ME series is not about the plot making sense so much as the characters you come to know. In that sense I think ME2 provides much of the foundation that ME3 (and especially Citadel) builds on. So much of the original characters' depth is also defined in ME2:  Liara matures beyond the fawning student as the SB, Garrus gets a bit more dimension in his ArchAngel story, Ashley gets... more to complain about which sadly seems to be the basis of her relationship with Shepard in ME3, Tali is renamed to "vas Normandy". Let's not forget that Illusive Man is introduced in ME2 as well.

 

And yeah the Suicide Mission is the best boss fight of the series.

A good story and plot and its relevance to the characters can uplift them more than a simple loyality mission. Sadly ME2 suffers greatly in that department, the reason we liked Garrus/Tali/liara/Wrex so  much is because they're ME1 characters we loved and we get to see their arcs throughout the games.

The illusive man is a very cool character, until you realize hes an idiot and he could get rid of the collector problem without shepard.

 

A bad story poisons everything and breaks the suspension of disbelief. So in retrospective, ME2 is the worst out of the trilogy. A great game still because of the characters and the DLC.

[Tommy6860]

A good story and plot and its relevance to the characters can uplift them more than a simple loyality mission. Sadly ME2 suffers greatly in that department, the reason we liked Garrus/Tali/liara/Wrex so  much is because they're ME1 characters we loved and we get to see their arcs throughout the games.

The illusive man is a very cool character, until you realize hes an idiot and he could get rid of the collector problem without shepard.

 

A bad story poisons everything and breaks the suspension of disbelief. So in retrospective, ME2 is the worst out of the trilogy. A great game still because of the characters and the DLC.

 

Well said and I agree with everything but it being the worst of the trilogy. Like ME, at least it gave you sense of what's to come. ME3 was awesome RPGing, until that frickin ending, that doomed 4 years of putting my heart and soul into making the ME experience mine.

[CptFalconPunch]

Well said and I agree with everything but it being the worst of the trilogy. Like ME, at least it gave you sense of what's to come. ME3 was awesome RPGing, until that frickin ending, that doomed 4 years of putting my heart and soul into making the ME experience mine.

Still an awesome journey though, that's what matters in my opinion. ME did so many things right I can easily forgive some mistakes.

[PANTHEON]

Not surprised by the people saying they played ME2 first and thus don't mind the changes from 1 to 2. I'm curious how many people started on that one.

 

Mass Effect is my favorite thanks to great atmosphere and a sense of exploration. There's just something sweet and optimistic in that one when you meet the people on the Citadel and your new squad and getting on your character's very own ship. The sequels lost sight of what it felt like to step through the dust on a softly lit foreign plateau under blue stars. There was a great melancholy and sense of optimism in the first game that the sequels, namely ME2, tossed in exchange for grime and animosity, on every planet and in every community. The first game was about finding the scratches in the glass, but ME2 acted like the glass was shattered or never there, just a rusty metallic screen door and things were going downhill centuries ago, and that's just not the mood that the communities of the first game evoked. Instead of a threat to their survival, everyone in the second game was written as if they'd been living like survivors all along. Unlike getting to see the dark side of the universe like BioWare promised, they washed everything that was already there in the vision in darkness. When playing ME2, it seems we were only ever left with glimpses of the bright potential they lived off of in ME1, as if the old shine was suddenly the new fleeting underbelly, thanks to ME2. These friends you knew from their innocence onward were missing entirely from ME2 in a way.

 

You just met these self-involved cold fighters as every one of your new squad mates in ME2. None of them were like Tali or Liara or Garrus. None of them needed a friend or to become more than an associate of yours. Sure, you got in closer over time, but the whole story was about this Shepard who didn't want to be where he was with this Cerberus crew and did want his old crew. I just don't see the connection to the ME2 characters that other people talk about. None of them were attached to Shepard the way he was when he got his very own ship and became a Spectre. I love Thane and I felt for these people in ME3, but in ME2? Fighting some power-ranger bugs with a giant terminator in a game where someone got ahold of red and brown palettes and used them without creative restraint? Nah, ME1 and ME3 had a lot more going for them in the subtlety and connections department for me. Illium was the closest I felt to ME1's smart blend of dreamy sci-fi and darkness on the rim.

 

I sure miss that bold, sleek, spectacular new vision of the future. It may have been left behind in some degree by BioWare, but the hints of it continued on and if rumor turns out true, the separate BioWare team behind the next Mass Effect saga is quite interested in an atmosphere of exploration coming back.

 

ME3 is my second choice in the series, largely having to do with it trying to pay tribute to player nostalgia of the series beginning, as the team has admitted. It had more throwbacks in style and tone to the first game, though it still was missing the melancholy wanderer's optimism of the original game's outlook that encouraged you to take a look at the lost flights and thinkers who are all but forgotten out in the dust of the uncharted worlds.

[wanted428]

I'm going to join the rest, Mass Effect 2 is the coolest ME series. I love that , its developed into a legit RPG way. There are things which won't be successful, like.. the suicide mission **spoiler starts here**. If you didn't upgrade your ship & etc. you'd end up losing some squad mates and during the suicide mission, you could either survive with the whole squad if you know what you are doing, or die all together.

 

I also think Mass Effect 2 is large and much interesting to play, I probably finished it 40 times and I never get bored from it.

[Louisiv826]

I also think that Mass Effect 2 is the best.  The combat was way better than ME1, as was the inventory system.  I enjoy a more traditional RPG style inventory, but ME2's upgrading and finding new weapons (that actually look different) is a lot less tedious than ME1's thousands of guns that differed only slightly function-wise and were just recolored versions of the same gun.  ME1's combat probably wouldn't have been so frustrating if I had played it first, but I didn't and it ticked me off. The exploration in 2 was also better IMO, because i hated the stupid mako and driving around on every planet, just hoping to find something.

 

Also most of my favorite characters are from ME2 (Miranda, Thane).  And LOTSB was great.

[Sequin]

I'm not sure which is my favourite. I liked the polished combat system of ME2, the lack of framerate issues that plagued ME1, the engrossing characters and diversity of levels, and dialogue that wasn't so exposition heavy. But I miss the feel of ME1 in comparison. I miss taking the Mako down to a planet and driving around the terrain with no idea what to expect across those hills once I've crossed them. I miss the beauty and brightness of the Citadel that was replaced by the dark and gloomy ME2 version. I miss the inventory system. I miss the members of my old crew who aren't around anymore. So I don't know if ME2 is my favourite because of those things, but it did do a lot of things right despite all that.

[CptFalconPunch]

I'm not sure which is my favourite. I liked the polished combat system of ME2, the lack of framerate issues that plagued ME1, the engrossing characters and diversity of levels, and dialogue that wasn't so exposition heavy. But I miss the feel of ME1 in comparison. I miss taking the Mako down to a planet and driving around the terrain with no idea what to expect across those hills once I've crossed them. I miss the beauty and brightness of the Citadel that was replaced by the dark and gloomy ME2 version. I miss the inventory system. I miss the members of my old crew who aren't around anymore. So I don't know if ME2 is my favourite because of those things, but it did do a lot of things right despite all that.

What class did you play? I played vanguard and charge was so broken i fell off the map and got stuck in random locations all the time. Also enemies in me1 and me2 have a tendency of beoming intimate with the walls.

All are amazing games people but all have their faults. Cannot even conceive how one would play a ME game more than 4-5 times.

[Sequin]

What class did you play? I played vanguard and charge was so broken i fell off the map and got stuck in random locations all the time. Also enemies in me1 and me2 have a tendency of beoming intimate with the walls.

All are amazing games people but all have their faults. Cannot even conceive how one would play a ME game more than 4-5 times.

 

I don't remember enough about playing Vanguard to comment on Charge, really. I usually prefer the Adept rather than the mixed biotic classes (and adept is still my favourite).

[CptFalconPunch]

I don't remember enough about playing Vanguard to comment on Charge, really. I usually prefer the Adept rather than the mixed biotic classes (and adept is still my favourite).

Well its terrible, on insanity its downright frustrating. Perhaps I'll do a ME2 walkthrough as an adept in the summmer :/

 

Oh, and another about ME2, it has no worthy adversaries, good lord, saren and sovereign nuff said. I do enjoy the silyness of harbinger though.

[CronoDragoon]

Mass Effect 2 barely edges out 3 for me. I did not enjoy the self-contained planet stories in ME1 such as the rachni and Feros, and the combat is a real step down compared to 2 and especially 3. I also didn't value the exploration very much, considering most planets are barren of interesting story and traversing them in the Mako felt like a waste of time.

 

2 has a very clear focus and game structure, focusing on individual squadmate stories which promise to influence your ability to handle the final mission. In the end the Suicide Mission is probably too easy in this respect, but it's still a great culmination to what Mass Effect 2 wants you to feel is important.

 

3 is the best until the ending, where I feel they dropped the ball. The combat is incredible: dodge rolls are a gameplay aspect that was sorely missing in a series that features multiple enemy types with "charge"-type moves. They added customization back into the weapons system without reverting to the clunkiness of ME1. All in all great stuff.

[CptFalconPunch]

Mass Effect 2 barely edges out 3 for me. I did not enjoy the self-contained planet stories in ME1 such as the rachni and Feros, and the combat is a real step down compared to 2 and especially 3. I also didn't value the exploration very much, considering most planets are barren of interesting story and traversing them in the Mako felt like a waste of time.

 

2 has a very clear focus and game structure, focusing on individual squadmate stories which promise to influence your ability to handle the final mission. In the end the Suicide Mission is probably too easy in this respect, but it's still a great culmination to what Mass Effect 2 wants you to feel is important.

 

3 is the best until the ending, where I feel they dropped the ball. The combat is incredible: dodge rolls are a gameplay aspect that was sorely missing in a series that features multiple enemy types with "charge"-type moves. They added customization back into the weapons system without reverting to the clunkiness of ME1. All in all great stuff.

The clear focus of ME1 is characters, exploration and storytelling, 2 of which ME1 nails. ME1 does storytelling in the main missions light years ahead of its predecessors. Also the stories are really not self contained, they usually are a  1-1 foreshadowing to what happens in the main storyline, and they feel connected to the overall plot. It doesn't do sidemissions better that the rest, but the mako gives the universe a sense of bigness the rest lacked.

 

The places where ME2 shines is combat, graphics (really important) and characters, dropping the main story, which overall hurts the trilogy. The missions in ME2 that shined where the ones that connected well to ME1, mordin, genophage, tali etc Overall its the closest thing to a perfectly polished ME game.

 

ME3 is as you said, and it was a huge step up from the me2 main storyline, and theeen the end The animations in ME3 were kind of lackluster compared to 2, tehcnically, ME2 is superior overall.

[CronoDragoon]

The clear focus of ME1 is characters, exploration and storytelling, 2 of which ME1 nails.

 

I don't feel that ME1 nailed the characters really. Tali and Garrus are nothing compared to their ME2/3 incarnations. Liara has very little layer to her character (probably because - being young - that is fitting, but that doesn't make her character interesting, only "realistic"). Wrex is great, and Kaidan and Ash are pretty cool.

 

The game lacks a clear focus because over half of the game's length is exploration of planets pretty unrelated to catching Saren. The main mission is "a race against time," yet you're just as likely to find Shepard Mako-hunting for minerals as trying to find Saren.

 

ME2 and ME3 avoid this dissonance by having reasons for building up your strength; in ME2 this takes the form of being strong enough to do the Suicide Mission, and in ME3 it's building the Crucible.

[CptFalconPunch]

I don't feel that ME1 nailed the characters really. Tali and Garrus are nothing compared to their ME2/3 incarnations. Liara has very little layer to her character (probably because - being young - that is fitting, but that doesn't make her character interesting, only "realistic"). Wrex is great, and Kaidan and Ash are pretty cool.

 

The game lacks a clear focus because over half of the game's length is exploration of planets pretty unrelated to catching Saren. The main mission is "a race against time," yet you're just as likely to find Shepard Mako-hunting for minerals as trying to find Saren.

 

ME2 and ME3 avoid this dissonance by having reasons for building up your strength; in ME2 this takes the form of being strong enough to do the Suicide Mission, and in ME3 it's building the Crucible.

ME2 characters were more fleshed out sure, they even had their own missions, i personally really liked liara, i hated the ME2 liara and liked the me3 liara too.

Tali and garrus are pretty great too, but as you said they were more fleshed out in the sequels.

 

Haha, the time continuity problem is one that all 3 games suffer from, let's be honest here. It doesn't bother me that much and the closest thing to an improvement we had was in ME3. Not that you wouldn't travel to the furthest system to recover thanix missiles, saving the entirety of organic life can wait.

 

In ME2 doing the suicide mission is in complete devoid of common sense and how nice of the collectors to wait for us to scan 1000 planets, do tons of side missions before attacking anyone else.

[Pheabus2009]

Me too, the ending of ME2 is worth some highst praise, the music score "the crash landing"  is also top notch.

[CronoDragoon]

ME2 characters were more fleshed out sure, they even had their own missions, i personally really liked liara, i hated the ME2 liara and liked the me3 liara too.

Tali and garrus are pretty great too, but as you said they were more fleshed out in the sequels.

 

Haha, the time continuity problem is one that all 3 games suffer from, let's be honest here. It doesn't bother me that much and the closest thing to an improvement we had was in ME3. Not that you wouldn't travel to the furthest system to recover thanix missiles, saving the entirety of organic life can wait.

 

In ME2 doing the suicide mission is in complete devoid of common sense and how nice of the collectors to wait for us to scan 1000 planets, do tons of side missions before attacking anyone else.

 

It's not a problem in ME3 because you still need to wait for the Crucible to be built. "Being ready" isn't really dependent on Shepard, besides doing what he can to improve the Crucible, which some side missions do.

 

As for ME2, you need to build up your squad since you have no idea what's waiting for you on the other side. And note that the Collectors don't wait for you, since they attack the Normandy and capture your crew.

[CptFalconPunch]

It's not a problem in ME3 because you still need to wait for the Crucible to be built. "Being ready" isn't really dependent on Shepard, besides doing what he can to improve the Crucible, which some side missions do.

 

As for ME2, you need to build up your squad since you have no idea what's waiting for you on the other side. And note that the Collectors don't wait for you, since they attack the Normandy and capture your crew.

You're right on some levels, although it still feels weird having excavation/exploration missions when I could be useful in a fight somewhere else. What should have been done is scratching these missions and replacing them with SPACE BATTLES. But thats my opinion

 

You have no idea what is waiting for you (and you never bother to find out before blindly bullrush the thing), and the collectors DO wait for you to get the reaper IFF, and complete legions quest, until shepard goes somewhere conveniently with his whole team (we never know where they went) and come back.

The collectors wait because they read ME2's script.

[brad2240]

ME2 is easily my favorite, for several reasons:

 

Characters. The returning squadmates are better fleshed-out and the new ones are fantastic. Miranda and Mordin are probably my favorite game characters of all time.

 

Balance. The classes are well balanced against each other, a problem with plagued ME1 and for some reason came back in ME3. Likewise the weapons are decently well balanced and there's a reason to use almost all of them. Combat is very balanced through most of the game, Shepard never really feels like a steamroller like as he does in ME3. Insanity felt honestly difficult, not just tedious like in 1 or a joke as in 3.

 

The Suicide Mission. My single favorite mission in all of video gamedom. An actual pay-off for what you've done so far, with life-or-death consequences for your team. And its so customizable, I can tell the story I want, kill some characters if I want and never need do it the same way twice in a row. For me its the whole ME trilogy in a nutshell.

 

I love ME3 as well but what holds it back from being my favorite are the one-sided combat and the presence of Kai Leng.

[CronoDragoon]

You're right on some levels, although it still feels weird having excavation/exploration missions when I could be useful in a fight somewhere else. What should have been done is scratching these missions and replacing them with SPACE BATTLES. But thats my opinion

 

You have no idea what is waiting for you (and you never bother to find out before blindly bullrush the thing), and the collectors DO wait for you to get the reaper IFF, and complete legions quest, until shepard goes somewhere conveniently with his whole team (we never know where they went) and come back.

The collectors wait because they read ME2's script.

 

Yeah, it's not like you are on edge the whole game, I agree. At one point ME2 had a much stricter progression structure that would have made it impossible to complete all the loyalty missions and such before you had to go do the Suicide Mission. My guess is that they changed it so that players could complete all the content they wanted in a single playthrough if they wished. It's usually BioWare's preference to plan for one satisfying single playthrough with as much content as possible, rather than branching playthroughs where a good chunk of content can be missed. You can see this again in the rachni showing up in ME3 regardless of your ME1 decision.

 

But anyway, I do wish ME1 had some of this built-in tension, where dillydalling made the main quest harder.

[ImaginaryMatter]

You're right on some levels, although it still feels weird having excavation/exploration missions when I could be useful in a fight somewhere else. What should have been done is scratching these missions and replacing them with SPACE BATTLES. But thats my opinion

 

You have no idea what is waiting for you (and you never bother to find out before blindly bullrush the thing), and the collectors DO wait for you to get the reaper IFF, and complete legions quest, until shepard goes somewhere conveniently with his whole team (we never know where they went) and come back.

The collectors wait because they read ME2's script.

 

I assume they would have attacked the Normandy more often if they had the chance. The ship is afterall a stealth ship, they only found it that one time because the Reaper IFF virus broadcasted their location, otherwise I think the Collectors had no idea what Shepard and the crew were up to so just continued with collecting. I also don't think the Collectors knew where the derelict Reaper was (although I do wonder why not. If TIM was able to find it based off calculating for impact forces and stellar drift, which seems like a hefty bit of math, then surely the Reapers or one of their proxies would be able to do the same and would have found it much earlier).

 

Although, I do think it is pretty dumb that they decide to assault the Collector Base with a single ship -- and have it work -- since ME2 though is about the side adventures it doesn't bother me too much from enjoying the game as, along with the rest of the main plot, it is fairly isolated from the good content.

[CptFalconPunch]

Yeah, it's not like you are on edge the whole game, I agree. At one point ME2 had a much stricter progression structure that would have made it impossible to complete all the loyalty missions and such before you had to go do the Suicide Mission. My guess is that they changed it so that players could complete all the content they wanted in a single playthrough if they wished. It's usually BioWare's preference to plan for one satisfying single playthrough with as much content as possible, rather than branching playthroughs where a good chunk of content can be missed. You can see this again in the rachni showing up in ME3 regardless of your ME1 decision.

 

But anyway, I do wish ME1 had some of this built-in tension, where dillydalling made the main quest harder.

I know I know, it's by its nature, really hard to implement time pressure in everything in a open world game of space opera. To be honest, both me1 and me3 in their storylines always had me pumped up to not waste time, without ever needing a clock. Not that I'm justifying them, I just don't mind it that much, i know its hard to pull off.

Needless to say, that missions like the rachni were made this way, not due to their all-at-once philosophy, but due to a time/money constraint. A former ME dev confirmed it.

 

I assume they would have attacked the Normandy more often if they had the chance. The ship is afterall a stealth ship, they only found it that one time because the Reaper IFF virus broadcasted their location, otherwise I think the Collectors had no idea what Shepard and the crew were up to so just continued with collecting. I also don't think the Collectors knew where the derelict Reaper was (although I do wonder why not. If TIM was able to find it based off calculating for impact forces and stellar drift, which seems like a hefty bit of math, then surely the Reapers or one of their proxies would be able to do the same and would have found it much earlier).

 

Although, I do think it is pretty dumb that they decide to assault the Collector Base with a single ship -- and have it work -- since ME2 though is about the side adventures it doesn't bother me too much from enjoying the game as, along with the rest of the main plot, it is fairly isolated from the good content.

I wasn't really talking about the Normandy. Why didn't they attack other colonies? Or anything really. Yeah, that derelict reaper thing was pretty bad, TIM knew where it was cause he'd read the script. Why do you think he's so cool about everything?

 

I agree with you, however bad the main story of ME2 is, it kind of quarantines the side missions which are the meat of the game. So I can enjoy ME2 for the most part, then get a brain aneurysm when I get back to the main storyline. But isn't that kind of how all ME games go? I mean ME1 had arguably the strongest main storyline but the weakest side missions, and ME3 had a strong storyline until the end (uhm, are we allows to swear here?) *** everything up.

 

The ME trilogy does so many things right and wrong. Still they're the top 3 games I've ever played and its hard to pick a favorite.

[CronoDragoon]

Needless to say, that missions like the rachni were made this way, not due to their all-at-once philosophy, but due to a time/money constraint. A former ME dev confirmed it.

 

Hm, do you have a source? I've read that it was because they didn't want players locked out of the rachni mission because of a previous choice. I mean yeah ultimately it all comes down to time and money, since they could have made an alternate mission to replace the rachni mission, but once it was clear that the decision was "rachni for everyone" or "rachni for some, nothing for others" then I think their philosophy prevailed.

[CptFalconPunch]

Hm, do you have a source? I've read that it was because they didn't want players locked out of the rachni mission because of a previous choice. I mean yeah ultimately it all comes down to time and money, since they could have made an alternate mission to replace the rachni mission, but once it was clear that the decision was "rachni for everyone" or "rachni for some, nothing for others" then I think their philosophy prevailed.

Ok I think I found it, it was a unofficial interview with Patrick Weekes. (google it, easy to find)

 

When asked about the rachni missions he said that they didn't want people to get locked out of content, but did not have the resources to make an alternative mission to satisfy those who hadn't saved her so it got railroaded.

 

Makes sense, rather than no mission if you didn't save her they gave you the same

[Kurt M.]

(That said, I do like ME3 very much. The deciding factor is the ending: ME2 triumphant and inspiring; ME3 nonsensical and sad.)

 

That's extremely subjective. First of all, technically ME2 ends with Arrival, and not with the Collector base, which is a much bleaker end (I know you can do that mission sooner, but it kinda makes no sense not to leave it the last, being the Reapers 5 minutes from arriving to the Milky Way). And the joke of the "bad ME3 endings" is even more boring right now than the "arrow on the knee" one. Look, they released the EC. The endings are decent now. Leave it be, for the love of....

 

Besides, the Control and Synthesis endings are pretty inspiring as well. Well, pretty much any high-EMS ending.

[cap and gown]

I'm sorry, but the ending for ME3 will never make any sense. An entire race of machines dedicated to wiping out all organic life so that it won't be wiped out by machines. There is no way to make sense of that nonsense.