139 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Because within the game, he does absolutely nothing to stop them. Only in ME3 he does his research, finally.
 

 

Wait, so smoking and drinking heavily to make the Reapers lack cigarretes and alcohol for the Invasion wasn't his plan? Damn!

[capn233]

The problem with ME2,is that its so unimportant and pointless, any common grunt with a ship could have destroyed the collectors ship with ease. Joker did it in 2 shots. The reasoning from bringing back shepard and have him focus on such a weak enemy feels pointless. And redundant, I'd rather research the galaxy with liara for clues (LotSB)

 
The first point is probably not true.  The SR2 is basically one of a kind, and it does not fare nearly as well against the Collector Cruiser without the Thanix, which incidentally Cerberus doesn't seem to possess the know-how to build.  The only reason Normandy gets the cannon is because Garrus helps you get ahold of the tech.  Sure maybe Cerberus could have stolen the data eventually, but in the mean time the mission would have been delayed.
 
The cut scene without upgrades is a bit different, and you lose more specialists.  Who knows if a second rate commander would have been able to complete the mission (which was to destroy or capture the base, not simply splash one of their ships).
 
As far as researching with Liara, I hate to point it out but she doesn't hardly contribute anything worthwhile in that capacity.  She doesn't even find out about the Crucible until Hackett asks her to come review the data on Mars.  In any event, we will get back to "what Shepard should have done" in a moment.
 
 
"Because within the game, he does absolutely nothing to stop them. Only in ME3 he does his research, finally."

This isn't necessarily supported by any of the games.  Just because something is happening off screen does not mean that it is not happening.
 
You already know that Cerberus has been using the scientific wing to research all sorts of things, most of which have applications in fighting the Reapers. 
 

"No matter what political reasons are involved, they simple cannot sit and do nothing while entire colonies disappear. And they didn't seem to care about political reasons when they installed AA CANNONS on their colonies."


The main hangup here is assuming that we are playing Alliance Command or something of that nature.  You are playing the game as Cmdr Shepard, not as Hackett and whatever ministers of defense the Alliance has.
 
As far as Shepard knows, the Alliance is not taking the Collector threat seriously.  All he knows is that colonies are disappearing and there hasn't been any official response from the Alliance.  He would also be well aware that the Alliance has no jurisdiction in the Terminus Systems.  They are outside Alliance space, as well as Council space at large.
 
We eventually learn the Alliance is doing something: AA guns on Horizon (which at least some colonists weren't happy to receive), and Vega's mission (ME3 / expanded universe stuff), but they don't tell Shepard about it.  The mere fact that he is working with Cerberus cuts him off from Alliance channels.  Cerberus floated the story that he was with him and Alliance brass bought it.  You show up at the Citadel on a Cerberus ship with Cerberus agents and that reinforces the point.  Anderson doesn't tell you what the Alliance is doing, even if he supports your mission.  So should Shepard just assume the Alliance is doing something about the colonists and call it a day?  In game you don't learn about their actions until you already set foot on Horizon.
 
Meanwhile the Council isn't inclined to help you for several reasons, largely that the Terminus Systems is out of their control, and Shepard is with Cerberus.
 
 
"Its not like the collector ships where hard to destroy. In every encounter they die within miliseconds. Something always has to go conveniently wrong (dead AA cannons etc.) 
Now that I think about it, WHY didn't Joker destroy the collectors when they landed on horizon? They were just sitting there..."

There isn't much evidence that they are easy to destroy.  A whole 1 Collector ship is destroyed in ME2, so it is hard to understand where your statement is coming from.  The Horizon AA guns just force the Collectors to leave prematurely, it does not destroy the ship.  The Disabled Collector Cruiser seen later in the game is indeed the same ship, but it is not disabled, it was setting a trap (which was explained with half the mission and post mission dialogue).  The ship is later destroyed in the end game, but it is only "easy" if Normandy is upgraded, and even so Normandy takes extensive damage and it was unclear if it was going to be able to make a return trip.

 
"Again, Cerberus could have given us the ship and the names and then kissed us goodbye. I wanted to go on an adventure with Liara to destroy the shadow broker, take his intel and use it to fight the reapers. A DLC is more plot relevant than ME2 was, ever!"

You could try this.  The problem is that the Council wasn't interested in working with you since they believed you were with Cerberus.  Neither was the Alliance.  I suppose you could have handed the ship over and seen if they would restore your rank and then help you.  Who knows if they would have.
 
Are you supposed to just fly around without any support then?  Ignore the Collectors completely and just go get some coffee on Illium?  I don't see how it is a stretch to think Shepard might work with Cerberus against a common enemy.  He is probably being manipulated, but you can play a Shepard that thinks this is the case.  He can say so in the game.  Working with people you don't like is such a common occurrence in history and even every day life that I can't take this as an actual problem with the plot.
 
 
"I'm not saying denial can't happen, but in ME1 they were pretty much on board with us defeating them, we had speeches and everything.
A complete 180 turn comes out of nowhere. It feels like they didn't even believe they would have had a sequel to ME1."
 
Also this is as good a time as any to discuss the Council's seemingly "instant" change of heart on the Reapers.  Consider that throughout ME1 they do not believe in the threat.  What you get at the end is finally some lip service regarding Sovereign probably because you saved them (if you did).
 
How does the Council then change their minds instantly?  They don't is the answer.  SR1's mission after ME1 is to go find Geth and mop them up.  It wasn't to go look for more evidence of the Reapers or a way to fight them.  It was to screw around against an enemy in a pointless war that was good for publicity.  And then Shepard is killed and after 2 years of no further information on the Reapers they formally discount it.  Especially when the science teams dispatched to Illos can't recover Vigil.
 
Also consider that there is no way for anybody but Shepard to retrieve the Prothean warning from the beacons, even if they find more.  Nevermind that both beacons from ME1 are destroyed (Eden Prime one overloads, Virmire one is is nuked).  They won't be able to get the cipher unless Shiala is alive because the Thorian is extinct.
 
In any event, it isn't a stretch that the Council would have backtracked on the issue after 2 years.  Wishful thinking, sure.  That in and of itself is pretty common throughout the course of history.
  
"We know that the galaxy will be taken out because Sovereign said so. How do we even know that the reapers start moving after the collectors are destroyed? All I remember is seeing a cinematic at the end, of the reapers entering our galaxy. Which means they have been on the move for quiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiteeee a long time now. The cycle was already delayed when ME1 happened, remember?"

It doesn't really matter if the Reapers started moving before or after the Collector base is destroyed / captured.  Indeed Arrival and ME3 pretty much guarantee that it is actually before the SM since you can play Arrival before launching the SM (which means the Reapers are already in the Viper Nebula).
 
 
"We argued about that with the guy before you. He said ME2 Has a grand sense of mystery. I said it doesn't. Because it doesn't :/"

You are right it probably doesn't have as much mystery as ME1, and neither does ME3.  This is simply because ME1 is the exposition and doesn't really delve into anything too deeply, so you are free to speculate on your own.
 
There are some mysteries in ME2 (not all of which are handled in the game itself, and some which are bungled in it and ME3).  I would disagree that you know everything from the beginning.  You know that colonies are being abducted, and after Freedom's Progress you know they are Collectors.  You don't prove a link to the Reapers until later.  Shepard's interest in the Reapers is part of his motivation for accepting this mission. 
 
"This is speculation from your part though, But I'd rather have even that than shepard risking going into the most dangerous place in the galaxy. What baffles me, is that he is the best defense of the galaxy against the reapers, and goes to suicide missions.
It's retarded, plain and simple, especially if it will accomplish nothing. Even Liara sent probes through the omega relay, why didn't we? This is what really killed the story for me, bioware never sacrificed good storytelling for a cool cinematic, before.

I don't really know what any of this is about.  Shepard may or may not be the best hope at stopping the Reapers, but from what he knows nobody is taking that threat seriously.  He also doesn't think anybody is doing anything about the Collectors. 

I don't remember Liara sending probes, I do remember the dialogue from various people that no ships have passed the Omega-4 relay.
  
"You mean recreating the ME1 plot? How would that be even possible? There is no conduit this time, which mean noone is going to stop them from closing the citadel's arms this time around. Unless they bring flowers that is. On top of that, every ship now has thanix cannons, which means the reaper will be obliterated in seconds."
The Conduit still exists, although it may need to be powered.
 
But it is moot, the Collectors were apparently only determining the suitability of humanity to be "uplifted" into Reaper form.  The speculation that they were trying to repeat Sovereign's mission was interesting when ME2 first came out, but basically isn't supported by Arrival and ME3.  Maybe a retcon, but it doesn't matter as much now.
 
 
"And wouldn't the human reaper according to EDI would take significantly more humans to complete? Remember the whole, "they're going to attack earth D: ? " thing that made no sense? In order to complete it, they would have to go further than just colonies and then its game over."

The attack earth line is speculation by one of the squadmates you take on DCC (it doesn't really matter who you take, one speculates that).  Since they were only determining how well you can turn humans into Reapers, the completion time really isn't all that important and they probably were not going to attack Earth directly.
 
However, Arrival and ME3 do mean it is more likely that they planned to ramp up their harvest of humans as the Reaper fleet was nearing the galaxy already.
 
 
"And even so, at the end of ME2 they show the reapers invading casually and reaching our galaxy incredibly fast. How they were ever trapped in dark space as vigil told us, if they can just come here in such a short time span."

You need to separate out several things.  First is that various in game characters do not have all the information.  Vigil itself tells you that many of the things he relays is supposition on his part. 
 
As the player, we have no reason to doubt that the Reapers really don't stay in dark space, but we don't know how far from the galaxy that really is, and we don't really have any knowledge of their timetable.  All we know is that they tend to stay in dark space several hundred to a thousand centuries, and that at some point in the past they tried to start the current cycle.  Arrival and ME3 basically force the interpretation that the Reaper fleet started towards the galaxy when the signal first failed, so many years ago.  In this case they happen to arrive in the Viper Nebula around 2.5 - 3 years after Sovereign failed.
 
In any event, none of these three games is perfect story wise.  But really I think the whole "relevance" arguments against ME2 are pretty poor.  And I think it gets worse when you introduce ME3 explanations and plot though (which starts with Arrival really), as that trivializes ME1 more than it does the Suicide Mission.

 

*board tells me I used too many quote blocks, so I took them out.

[the_last_krogan]

mass effect 2 is my favorite of the series

 

Suicide mission FTC!

[CptFalconPunch]

The first point is probably not true.  The SR2 is basically one of a kind, and it does not fare nearly as well against the Collector Cruiser without the Thanix, which incidentally Cerberus doesn't seem to possess the know-how to build.  The only reason Normandy gets the cannon is because Garrus helps you get ahold of the tech.  Sure maybe Cerberus could have stolen the data eventually, but in the mean time the mission would have been delayed.

It doesn't really matter, since normandys weapons are the same as every other ship's. What matters is that its ridiculously easy to destroy the collector ship. The collectors are just so powerless. Any attempt at attacking anything else than farmers will result in failure. And cerberus can re construct the marvel of turians and humans, make it even better, but can't get its hands on the official weapon of the alliance.

This isn't necessarily supported by any of the games.  Just because something is happening off screen does not mean that it is not happening.

You already know that Cerberus has been using the scientific wing to research all sorts of things, most of which have applications in fighting the Reapers.

It doesn't seem to bother you that the most important technological advcancements are never shown? Or even mentioned? It sounds like you don't care so much about how we're going to stop the reapers.
"Oh, I'm sure those buggers at cerberus will figure something out". No no no. The reapers are coming, I need to feel like I'm making some progress to take them down. Otherwise we're just on the side.
 

The main hangup here is assuming that we are playing Alliance Command or something of that nature.  You are playing the game as Cmdr Shepard, not as Hackett and whatever ministers of defense the Alliance has.
 
As far as Shepard knows, the Alliance is not taking the Collector threat seriously.  All he knows is that colonies are disappearing and there hasn't been any official response from the Alliance.  He would also be well aware that the Alliance has no jurisdiction in the Terminus Systems.  They are outside Alliance space, as well as Council space at large.

This is never mentioned in the game, a weak argument. All I can see is the game, and in the game the alliance does nothing without any good reason. The rest is speculation, it is not my job to write the plot.
 

There isn't much evidence that they are easy to destroy.  A whole 1 Collector ship is destroyed in ME2, so it is hard to understand where your statement is coming from.  The Horizon AA guns just force the Collectors to leave prematurely, it does not destroy the ship.  The Disabled Collector Cruiser seen later in the game is indeed the same ship, but it is not disabled, it was setting a trap (which was explained with half the mission and post mission dialogue).  The ship is later destroyed in the end game, but it is only "easy" if Normandy is upgraded, and even so Normandy takes extensive damage and it was unclear if it was going to be able to make a return trip.

They are ridiculously easy to destroy, suicide mission yo. Which means that if they are up against, 2 ships they're gun get rekt.
If even AA cannons force them to leave, its laughable especially compared to sovereign, who just sat casually not taking any damage. And yet everyone keeps telling me how dangerous and powerful they are.
The disabled collector ship was the most badly written trap you're railroaded into, ever.
 

Are you supposed to just fly around without any support then?  Ignore the Collectors completely and just go get some coffee on Illium?  I don't see how it is a stretch to think Shepard might work with Cerberus against a common enemy.  He is probably being manipulated, but you can play a Shepard that thinks this is the case.  He can say so in the game.

Hey illusive man, thanks for the ship, now I'll take out all the surveillance systems, you'll give me any info you can while I take down the shadow broker with Liara.

There is absolutely no reason why shepard stays with cerberus. None. TIM is nothing more than an intel guy now. I don't need him for anything else.
YET shepard does EVEYRTHING TIM says. No matter what shepard says, its the same.

The fact that I can say "you're manipulating me" in the game is even more laughable when the character does nothing. Must.follow.orders.commands.received.
 

Also this is as good a time as any to discuss the Council's seemingly "instant" change of heart on the Reapers.  Consider that throughout ME1 they do not believe in the threat.  What you get at the end is finally some lip service regarding Sovereign probably because you saved them (if you did).
 
How does the Council then change their minds instantly?  They don't is the answer.  SR1's mission after ME1 is to go find Geth and mop them up.  It wasn't to go look for more evidence of the Reapers or a way to fight them.  It was to screw around against an enemy in a pointless war that was good for publicity.  And then Shepard is killed and after 2 years of no further information on the Reapers they formally discount it.  Especially when the science teams dispatched to Illos can't recover Vigil.

It feels instant, abrupt and out of place, and then suddently everything conveniently breaks down or gets a ridiculously explanation (geth ship). I smell retcon.
 

Shepard's interest in the Reapers is part of his motivation for accepting this mission. 

I don't really know what any of this is about.  Shepard may or may not be the best hope at stopping the Reapers, but from what he knows nobody is taking that threat seriously.  He also doesn't think anybody is doing anything about the Collectors.

Yep, I would have investigated the collectors too, but doing a suicide mission, bullrushing into the galaxy's core is ridiculous. The collectors are 0.000001% of the reaper forces, even if we win it is a pointless victory, especially since the reapers arrive right after.
 

The attack earth line is speculation by one of the squadmates you take on DCC (it doesn't really matter who you take, one speculates that).  Since they were only determining how well you can turn humans into Reapers, the completion time really isn't all that important and they probably were not going to attack Earth directly.

Yeah, it feels like everyone believed it well enough in the games, my teammates did, shepard did, and everyone kept telling me how awesome i was for saving the galaxy again. Huh?

I also remember after defating the collectors, shepard tells grunt that the most powerful enemies have been defeated at last...

In any event, none of these three games is perfect story wise.  But really I think the whole "relevance" arguments against ME2 are pretty poor.  And I think it gets worse when you introduce ME3 explanations and plot though (which starts with Arrival really), as that trivializes ME1 more than it does the Suicide Mission.

Mass effect 1 is pretty close to being perfect,
Mass effect 2 is utterly pointless and breaks continuity avoids the main villain and makes us do whatever TIM says, as if shepard lacks ANY common sense, gets railroaded into painfullly obvious traps. On top of that we're focusing on an obviously weak enemy, we take no steps to come closer to defeating the reapers and its funny. The only place where story makes sense and plot exists is in DLC.

Mass effect 3 story is very good, until priority earth where everything gets weird ofc.

EDIT: Now that i think about it, what if shepard hanged out on illium dirnking coffe? Would anything change from ME2 to ME3? The reapers would still invade, the collectors wouldn't have enough time ,or reousrces, to construct the human reaper and we would just be at the same place. The very definition of pointless filler.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

EDIT: Now that i think about it, what if shepard hanged out on illium dirnking coffe? Would anything change from ME2 to ME3? The reapers would still invade, the collectors wouldn't have enough time ,or reousrces, to construct the human reaper and we would just be at the same place. The very definition of pointless filler.

 

The Collectors would invade and abduct more and more human colonies. Could even reach Earth...

[CptFalconPunch]

The Collectors would invade and abduct more and more human colonies. Could even reach Earth...

Right, you know what would have happened if they got close to council space?

http://youtu.be/xFqt2KMDebc?t=7m26s

Even without the thanix cannon they can take them out. And the normandy is just one ship.
Collectors thrive only on hit and run tactics outside council space where there is no danger for them. Even simple AA cannons drive them off.

They ain't no sovereign.

[Jukaga]

Right, you know what would have happened if they got close to council space?

http://youtu.be/xFqt2KMDebc?t=7m26s

Even without the thanix cannon they can take them out. And the normandy is just one ship.
Collectors thrive only on hit and run tactics outside council space where there is no danger for them. Even simple AA cannons drive them off.

They ain't no sovereign.

The only problem is that cutscenes aren't very consistent. Take for example the Grissom Academy mission from ME3, suddenly the Normandy is outclassed by a mere 6 fighters. Joker doesn't even try to fight them, just leads them on a merry chase.

[CptFalconPunch]

The only problem is that cutscenes aren't very consistent. Take for example the Grissom Academy mission from ME3, suddenly the Normandy is outclassed by a mere 6 fighters. Joker doesn't even try to fight them, just leads them on a merry chase.

I can concur to some point, but the thing is in Grissom academy its just nitpicking, filler that doesn't concern us to any noticeable degree. Its on the side, not our main focus if you will.

 

In ME2 its our main focus, the main villain and this is one of the main fights we have with them. It is our whole objective. The cutscene makes it feel cheap and draws the attention.

They're nothing. Shepard was forced to follow the plot and tell joker to "get close" to that exploding humongous ship so they can crash and do the suicide mission, the whole thing feels cheap.

Cool stuff are happening but I can't enjoy them since there is no suspension of disbelief :/ That is bad writing.

 

Want to see how to make a bad guy really threatening and apppear near invincible? Try Sovereign at the Citadel. Then compare it to the collectors. 

[Jukaga]

Fair enough. You're right, later transgressions don't excuse earlier ones especially at the climax of a game.

[KrrKs]

My 2 cents on this debate:

 

EDIT: Now that i think about it, what if shepard hanged out on illium dirnking coffe? Would anything change from ME2 to ME3? The reapers would still invade, the collectors wouldn't have enough time ,or reousrces, to construct the human reaper and we would just be at the same place. The very definition of pointless filler.

Just tell yourself Shepard is fighting them in the hope to find something usefull on the way, thats what I always do.

 

 

You already know that Cerberus has been using the scientific wing to research all sorts of things, most of which have applications in fighting the Reapers.

This -> They even searched (nearly) an entire star cluster for an anti-reaper weapon

which we sadly newer saw..., I mean, crippling a reaper from 3 systems away is damn impressive! (And highly unlikely...)

 

 

The only problem is that cutscenes aren't very consistent. Take for example the Grissom Academy mission from ME3, suddenly the Normandy is outclassed by a mere 6 fighters. Joker doesn't even try to fight them, just leads them on a merry chase.

While the first part is definately true, Grissom academy is bad example...

The point there was to lure away the fighters (and most likely the Cruiser they came from), so shepards team could savely enter the station.

 

Edit:

correction

BrainFart, I shouldn't post after midnight...

 

Edit-edit:

...and I also shouldn't post/edit when I'm short on time

[cap and gown]

This -> They even searched (nearly) an entire star cluster for an anti-reaper weapon

which we sadly newer saw..., I mean, crippling a reaper from 3 systems away is damn impressive! (And highly unlikely...)

 

I think you misunderstand what happened there. A mass accelerator weapon was fired at a Reaper and one of the shots missed. Eventually it hit the planet Klendagon. It was from the way it hit Klendagon that the researchers were able to trace back the trajectory of the projectile to figure out where the weapon was that fired the shot and supposedly, where it was aiming. That speech you hear about Issac Newton being the deadliest SOB in the universe and ruining someone's day somewhere is supposed to clue you into the idea that a missed shot with a mass accelerator weapon may not hit anything for millions of years, but eventually it may hit something and ruin someone's day. Klendagon was on the receiving end of one of those missed shots.

[Jukaga]

While the first part is definately true, Grissom academy is bad example...

The point there was to lure away the fighters (and most likely the Cruiser they came from), so shepards team could savely enter the station.

I know, except Joker explicitly says that 'they're too much to deal with on our own' or something to that effect. From what we know about the Normandy's capabilities, she should be able to carve through a cruiser and a few fighters like the USS Defiant spanking Cardassian warships.

[themikefest]

I think you misunderstand what happened there. A mass accelerator weapon was fired at a Reaper and one of the shots missed. Eventually it hit the planet Klendagon. It was from the way it hit Klendagon that the researchers were able to trace back the trajectory of the projectile to figure out where the weapon was that fired the shot and supposedly, where it was aiming. That speech you hear about Issac Newton being the deadliest SOB in the universe and ruining someone's day somewhere is supposed to clue you into the idea that a missed shot with a mass accelerator weapon may not hit anything for millions of years, but eventually it may hit something and ruin someone's day. Klendagon was on the receiving end of one of those missed shots.

That weapon had to be enormous. If I had to guess, it may of been a very early crucible compared to what we see at the end of ME3. Its too bad we couldn't study it to see if we could mass produce it.

[SporkFu]

Tech: Uhh, boss? I have some information on that first shot we fired from Kill-O-Blast 5000. You know, the one that missed...

Boss (on phone) : Just a minute, can't you see I'm busy? 

Tech: Boss, it's ...uhh... kind of important.

Boss: *slams phone down* I've been on that stupid line for hours and you stroll in here to tell me about a weapon malfunction? Newsflash son, the weapon worked. We killed the giant space robot.

Tech: Yes, sir.

Boss: *picks up phone* Now, if there's nothing else, I've got to get back on the line and confirm those reservations to the Klendagon Festival of Starlight next month or the wife will kill me. 

Tech: uhh...

Boss: Damn Klendagons. Doesn't anyone answer their phones over there anymore? 

Tech: *walks out* 

[CptFalconPunch]

Just tell yourself Shepard is fighting them in the hope to find something usefull on the way, thats what I always do.

Eh, I've already tried that, but its hard to headcannon the whole game. I just skip any cinematic and conversation in the main story and go back to the delicious hub worlds and characters.

This

May have... might have been.. The focus of the story is shepard, not some vague department of cerberus that is mentioned once.

You'd think an enemy as monumental as the reapers, deserves a little bit more attention and exposition when it comes to stopping them.
ME2 proves, that even if we stop the collectors, or not, the reapers will still arrive.



Come on, trying to excuse this is pointless. The reapers are almost completely ignored. Nothing is actually being done to stop them. Its clear that Bioware wanted them out of the way to focus on the characters. But why throw in a completely irrelevant enemy :/

[cap and gown]

That weapon had to be enormous. If I had to guess, it may of been a very early crucible compared to what we see at the end of ME3. Its too bad we couldn't study it to see if we could mass produce it.

 

A projectile traveling at "a fraction of the speed of light" is going to hit pretty hard. Don't need to be all that big.

 

Actually, I forget the figures that guy on the Citadel uses. Something a 10 kilo projectile causing a 37 kiloton explosion?

[themikefest]

A projectile traveling at "a fraction of the speed of light" is going to hit pretty hard. Don't need to be all that big.

 

Actually, I forget the figures that guy on the Citadel uses. Something a 10 kilo projectile causing a 37 kiloton explosion?

For it to cause the rift that is what, thousands of miles long and hundreds of miles wide, I would believe the projectile would be very large and fired from a very large weapon. Also its possible that if it did that much damage it would've destroyed the reaper completely. So I believe the reaper suffered a glancing blow enough to be "killed" and the projectile hit the planet Klendagon

[KrrKs]

You'd think an enemy as monumental as the reapers, deserves a little bit more attention and exposition when it comes to stopping them.
ME2 proves, that even if we stop the collectors, or not, the reapers will still arrive.

The criticism that ME2 did nothing to stop the reapers is as old as ME2 itself -and completely true.

They should have shown something that helps in defeating them, but I guess destroying Bloodpack arms factories was more important...

 

 

For it to cause the rift that is what, thousands of miles long and hundreds of miles wide, I would believe the projectile would be very large and fired from a very large weapon. Also its possible that if it did that much damage it would've destroyed the reaper completely. So I believe the reaper suffered a glancing blow enough to be "killed" and the projectile hit the planet Klendagon

Yeah, the projectile's energy must have been enormous, and the weapon too.

Anyone played ST Elite Force 1 -> The 'Dreadnought' is what springs to my mind, but even larger as ME technology is as less advanced.

 

 

I know, except Joker explicitly says that 'they're too much to deal with on our own' or something to that effect. From what we know about the Normandy's capabilities, she should be able to carve through a cruiser and a few fighters like the USS Defiant spanking Cardassian warships.

Huh, you are right! I totally forgot this line...

 

Edit:

forgot a word,

[CptFalconPunch]

The criticism that ME2 did nothing to stop the reapers is as old as ME2 itself -and completely true.

 

I arrived late too the forums. Happy that I missed the ME3 ending shitstorm and sad I've missed every conversation on ME1 and ME2

[Dale]

(spoiler) ME2 was my favorite also because the story was not all about Shep.  

 

As others have mentioned, character development of TWELVE individuals was important to me and that became obvious in the loyalty missions (especially Jack's and Tali's).  

 

For me (on this game), the "yes, we did it!" came through in contrast to the "funeral" in ME3.   What I was REALLY hoping in ME3 was for the Illusive Man to royally hang himself (that should't have been all that difficult to do).  Instead, he just got "controlled" (big deal).  

 

Well, since Shep is into the resurrection business, maybe ME4 will resurrect him the 2nd time.

[Jukaga]

I have a free evening, need a break from the skull-sweat that is Xenonauts (damn fun tho) and despite a post I left a week or so ago I think I'm going to start a new ME2 run tonight. My options are

 

re-run of Svetlana, my pro-Cerberus Infliltrator. VS doesn't survive ME3 in her runs, chooses renegade control. TiM's only problem to her is that he was stupid enough to put Reaper tech in his skull. She's an enthuisiastic supporter of Cerberus in ME2. Veetor gets a 'medical exam', David stays hooked up, Batarians get no warning.. that sort of thing.

 

or

 

 

continue Achilles, pro-Cerberus maleShep Vanguard. Miranda mancer, basically a male version of Svet. I think my last save with him was just before the derelict Reaper.

 

 

or

 

 

Roll a new Shep, likely an Engineer, if male a Talimancer, if female Chambers->Traynor. Paragade.

 

 

choices, choices.

 

 

Or I could play more Dragonborn. Ahh, it's nice to have a free night.

[HTTP 404]

2010 BSN would like a word with all of you. 

[KaiserShep]

 As far as researching with Liara, I hate to point it out but she doesn't hardly contribute anything worthwhile in that capacity.  She doesn't even find out about the Crucible until Hackett asks her to come review the data on Mars.

 

Actually, he doesn't ask her to go to Mars; he simply asks her to find leads, which then points her to Mars, and he grants her clearance to study the archives.

 

 

That weapon had to be enormous. If I had to guess, it may of been a very early crucible compared to what we see at the end of ME3. Its too bad we couldn't study it to see if we could mass produce it.

 

It always bugged me that we couldn't even see the defunct weapon.

[dreamgazer]

What I was REALLY hoping in ME3 was for the Illusive Man to royally hang himself (that should't have been all that difficult to do).  Instead, he just got "controlled" (big deal).  

 

Methinks you're severely downplaying the significance of TIM and Cerberus getting indoctrinated, given their reckless research since the beginning of the series.

 

Becoming a Reaper puppet is the epitome of "royally hanging himself". 

[Larry-3]

Mass Effect 2 has been my favorite so far. I was not the military, I have my own ship, the best squadmates, all the girls on my ship are attractive and I could flirt with them, I do not have to worry about the Reapers as much, it has better locations than 1 or 3, I can spend nights in bars and lounges and watch attractive aliens. In honest I felt like a mercenary hired by Cerberus. I am in Mass 1 right now -- my second favorite -- on my 4th play-through, and I am kind of looking forward to getting back to Mass Effect 2. Mass Effect 3, it is alright, but I would have not went back to the Alliance. They took away my ship, my freedom, and put me on house arrest forget them and the military. In fact after stopping the Collectors I would have kept my ship and any of my crew members who wished to stay. I would have just stayed out in the Terminus systems going to places like Illium and Omega, doing what Garrus did until the Reapers arrived. Let another Specter deal with war assets and pick an ending on the Citadel. After the war I would have got with Shiala and have a bunch of little green children, if not her than Kasumi. I just realized, I typed out how I would have preferred my Mass Effect story. Regardless, Mass Effect 2 is my favorite.