266 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfhowwl]

And suppose the writers want Shepard to be defeated by Leng. Not by a gunship. Not by missiles. By Leng.
 
If that's an incomprehensible defeat to you, feel free to replace Leng by any human-sized antagonist.
 
So what then? This solution obviously would not work.

You do what Bioware failed to do.

You design an excellent boss fight where someone playing at their appropriate difficulty level will feel challenged, if not overwhelmed.

You demonstrate in the story that the opponent is competent and a threat to the player. You do NOT have them behave like a buffoon and get thwarted by a dying lizard.

You make sure the rival character is well-written and that there is sufficient characterization done in the game. A player should not have to read crappy extended universe material to get a grasp on who their rival is.

Their personality should be compelling. You should not have him acting like an ass and sending an Xbox Live tier email.

They need to fit the universe. Tela Vasir wore a uniform that fit the setting and used a gun and her biotic powers. Kai Leng is a Raiden knockoff that uses a sword.

Since Necanor brought up Raiden, I will mention that I found Jetstream Sam to be an enjoyable rival character.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Animal House. One of the funniest movies I've seen

 

David's avy should be this guy:

 

 

I'd normally say to give him Niedermeyer, except that I'M Niedermeyer. Don't you be touchin' my Niedermeyer.

 

In all reality, I'm a combination of Niedermeyer, Otter, Hoover, and Bluto.

[RZIBARA]

Dave pls, I know more math than you. 

 

Engineering is hell of a thing.

[DeinonSlayer]

David's avy should be this guy:
 

 
I'd normally say to give him Niedermeyer, except that I'M Niedermeyer. Don't you be touchin' my Niedermeyer.
 
In all reality, I'm a combination of Niedermeyer, Otter, Hoover, and Bluto.

He's more of a Chip Diller.

"There's nothing wrong with Kai Leng! ALL IS WELL!!!"

[MassivelyEffective0730]

He's more of a Chip Diller.

"There's nothing wrong with Kai Leng! ALL IS WELL!!!"

 

Puh-leeze.

 

Don't insult Kevin Bacon like that.

[archangel1996]

Do you not understand the math? I'd be happy to explain things so they make sense for you.

 

DA2, not good game with good DLCs that stick to the themes of the main game, not the ideal but at least they remain good even on their own

The Last Of Us, good game and good DLC, arguably the game was better received than the DLC(that still sticks to the themes of the main game)

Both of this games are complete, for good and bad, on their own

Citadel was well received because it gave something that the game lacked, something major i may add, and because it had completely different themes from the main game.... that, by the way, were forced upon us every two second or so in the game (the ending are a good example)

Still think it's totally normal? Probably yes but had to ask :/

[Bob from Accounting]

Uh-huh. What was it, exactly, that the game 'lacked' which Citadel provided, and which would have rendered Citadel unwelcome had it existed in ME 3?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Uh-huh. What was it, exactly, that the game 'lacked' which Citadel provided, and which would have rendered Citadel unwelcome had it existed in ME 3?

 

Is there an answer that won't be met with a scoff of almighty smug superiority David? 

[DeinonSlayer]

Is there an answer that won't be met with a scoff of almighty smug superiority David? 

No.

[archangel1996]

Uh-huh. What was it, exactly, that the game 'lacked' which Citadel provided, and which would have rendered Citadel unwelcome had it existed in ME 3?

 

Remember about that gif? Found it

This is not a reply to this particular question but rather to all of them

[AlanC9]

You do what Bioware failed to do.

You design an excellent boss fight where someone playing at their appropriate difficulty level will feel challenged, if not overwhelmed
.

Heh. When was the last good Bio boss fight ? The next-to-last Irenicus fight?

[Randy1012]

It's not just the boss battle, Kai Leng is just about the worst character in the ME franchise. He's like a weird hybrid between Raiden and Final Fantasy.

Heck, Leng's armor and sword is so similar to Raiden's, it looks like they just copied and re-skinned it.

(Deleted the pics just to keep this post looking manageable. Hope you don't mind.)

 

I agree that Kai Leng is among the worst characters in the franchise. I get what BioWare was going for with him, but he was introduced sloppily and we were never really "shown" why we should have been afraid of him. He really should have been introduced in ME2, pre-Reaper upgrades, in order to give us some insight into his character and to set us up for his more prominent role in ME3.

[Bob from Accounting]

Leng would have been fine if the fights and cutscenes had been tightened up and the dialogue had been tweaked a bit.

 

Really, what do people 'know' about Tasir? She's a slighty flirty Spectre who works for the Shadow Broker. What do people 'know' about the clone? He's a clone, he's made by Cerberus, he doesn't like that Shepard works with the squad. And yet nobody is claiming they needed extensive background or insight or characterization to be effective antagonists.

 

His character is effective enough as the 'face' and muscle of Cerberus.

[Sir DeLoria]

Kai Leng is a Raiden knockoff that uses a sword. Since Necanor brought up Raiden, I will mention that I found Jetstream Sam to be an enjoyable rival character.

Totally agree, Sam was a very good antagonist and his boss battle was imo the best in the game.

[Sir DeLoria]

(Deleted the pics just to keep this post looking manageable. Hope you don't mind.)
 
I agree that Kai Leng is among the worst characters in the franchise. I get what BioWare was going for with him, but he was introduced sloppily and we were never really "shown" why we should have been afraid of him. He really should have been introduced in ME2, pre-Reaper upgrades, in order to give us some insight into his character and to set us up for his more prominent role in ME3.

Yeah, not only is he a cheap knock off character who doesn't fit in the franchise, he came out of nowhere.

[Invisible Man]

@bob

 

I don't think you can count vasir (sp?), or the shep clone in this argument here; leng was central to the mass effect 3 main plot, the flirty spectre is a side note "bridge" villain for the me2 dlc, and the clone was a clone in the me3 "joke" dlc, you don't really need to know more than brooks fed the shep clone a bunch of fluff to get him/her to try to off the real shepard.

[CronoDragoon]

Heh. When was the last good Bio boss fight ? The next-to-last Irenicus fight?

 

Tying this back to the OP: Clone fight in the cargo bay in Citadel DLC. Before that, Shadow Broker and Overlord DLC boss fights in ME2. I'm sensing a pattern here...

[AlanC9]

Heh. So I don't get the good boss fights because I don't buy DLC.

[Invisible Man]

@ alanc9

 

good business strategy... no? cheap & kind of wrong, but smart. that is until your fan base turns on you for **** like that.

[Iamjdr]

I don't get why people like the Vasir fight but hate the Kia leng one. It's almost identicle in execution, gotta recharge/biotic charge to some place random while mooks take over. And not only that but vasir is severly injured during the fight but holds off shep plus team just fine..I mean I guess since you actually win it sa little different but that's when you get accused of being just as bad as her because your with Cerberus which is

[Iamjdr]

And the actual shadow broker boss fight has some awesome cutscenes hero moments ( love going fisticuffs with a yahg) but is otherwise an extremely easy fight and you only have 1 squad mate for help to boot.

[von uber]

Because Vasir had a decent buildup as a believable character and peer to shep.

[Iamjdr]

And which bossfight in overlord are you referring to cause I honestly don't remember one. But I do agree that the clone shep fight is awesome, tho I think I like the mirror matches even more.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

I don't get why people like the Vasir fight but hate the Kia leng one. It's almost identicle in execution, gotta recharge/biotic charge to some place random while mooks take over. And not only that but vasir is severly injured during the fight but holds off shep plus team just fine..I mean I guess since you actually win it sa little different but that's when you get accused of being just as bad as her because your with Cerberus which is

 

Vasir doesn't recharge, she jumps back in with the same barrier she had before.

 

Plus You don't spend the entire fight whipping her only to get your ass kicked in a cutscene.

[Iamjdr]

Because Vasir had a decent buildup as a believable character and peer to shep.

Not really.. I mean yes she is introduced as a fellow spectre but otherwise they don't show anything very impressive. She tries to kill liara twice and fails...she even blew up a whole building... And that didn't even kill liara or her contact...and then she crashes her sky car and limps away till you beat her to a pulp....believable character maybe, peer to shep? No way in hell.