32 réponses à ce sujet

[congokong]

I know this has been discussed on the internet often in the last few years but I'm curious about it. I think most people who debate this are people who played ME2 in its first 8 months of release before the DLC was released.

 

People say that a few lines of dialogue suggest LotSB is meant post-SM. What are they? They also mention someone at Bioware implying it. I don't know if this person can speak for the whole ME team but I just don't see it. It's actually the opposite.

 

Examples of dialogue suggesting LotSB before the SM:

 

- As Vasir is dying she criticizes Shepard for being with Cerberus. This happens even after the SM with the collector base potentially destroyed and Shepard abandoning Cerberus.

 

- There are several LotSB references to "the mission." During Liara's Normandy tour if Shepard had casualties on the SM Shepard mentions how they cannot grieve because Shepard has to keep the team focused on "the mission." What mission? The suicide mission, right? After the SM is over they're just flying around the galaxy for no real reason. Liara says the same thing if you two kiss after the Shadow Broker's death. "You have your mission and-." The only other conceivable "mission" is stopping the reapers but that's not a real mission; not one specifically for Shepard. In ME2's timeframe you have no idea when the reapers are coming and what part Shepard will have to play.

 

- Liara's fear of Shepard dying is devalued after the SM. "When the reapers finally arrive you'll dive into the fray" is far less immediate and personal than "When your team is ready you'll leap through the Omega 4 relay." Why? Because if/when the reapers arrive everyone will be affected. But the SM is affecting Shepard in the near future. And is it really believable to have no resolution to a relationship with a romanced Liara before the SM?

 

- You miss out on all the bonuses after the SM.

 

- How can Shepard just leave SB's location in their mailbox while Liara is torturing herself on Illium? This is a slippery-slope regarding time in the ME universe but it must be said; especially for a romanced Liara.

 

- All the "how are you doing Shepard" responses on Liara's Normandy tour feel as if the mission is on-going. "I have no idea how we're going to do this" for example suggests the upcoming SM. Again, it could be referencing stopping the reapers but see above.

 

 

All other reasons are subjective.

[RedCaesar97]

Some Liara dialogue is different, depending on when you play LotSB. On top of mind:

1) If you complete LotSB after beating the Disabled Collector Ship mission, and then talk to Liara, she mentions that the Shadow Broker knew the Collectors were Protheans repurposed by the Reapers. If you complete LotSB before the DCS mission, this dialogue will never come up.

 

2) If you are romancing Liara, you do not get a (brief) romance scene if you have not completed the Suicide Mission yet.

 

 

Now, a few things to keep in mind:

1) You can complete LotSB before or after the Suicide Mission. I recommend completing it before so you can respec squadmates and get the upgrades.

2) You do not have to invite Liara to your cabin right away.

 

I prefer completing LotSB main missions immediately after the DCS (I want my bonus weapon first). I then invite Liara to my cabin after I complete the Suicide Mission. That way I get the best of both worlds.

[Steelcan]

I always do it after the SM simply because thats when I like to do it

[cap and gown]

2) If you are romancing Liara, you do not get a (brief) romance scene if you have not completed the Suicide Mission yet.

 

 

Maybe I have never done it after the SM, but before the SM Shepard and Liara start making out in the captain's cabin just before you cut to her leaving. How does that differ from after the SM?

[Steelcan]

Maybe I have never done it after the SM, but before the SM Shepard and Liara start making out in the captain's cabin just before you cut to her leaving. How does that differ from after the SM?

 

It doesn't, its the same scene

[Xilizhra]

During Liara's Normandy tour if Shepard had casualties on the SM Shepard mentions how they cannot grieve because Shepard has to keep the team focused on "the mission." What mission? The suicide mission, right?

Er... that's sort of logically contradictory.

 

I don't really care about whether it's "supposed" to be before or after the suicide mission (although in my opinion, in canon, you don't get the email from Cerberus until afterwards, as that's when I installed the DLC originally); I play it afterwards because it feels like a nice coda after the suicide mission. Another mini-adventure in its own right that enables Shepard to genuinely reconnect with Liara.

 

Then Arrival can be the true final mission.

[NekkidNones]

The dialogue changes depending on whether it is done before or after SM.  As such there is no right order to do it.  My preference is well before SM.  Both for technical reasons(rewards), and to facilitate two timing relationships with shepards shipboard harem.  Since your treasonous crew will rat you out while Liara is touring the ship.  You might not get any play with Liara if done post SM.

 

Now arrival I can understand doing post SM.  I don`t, but I get it.  I don`t imagine that Hacket would like having you sideline a mission that he personally requested you do as a personal favour quite early on, to go on a suicide mission in the hopes that you`ll make it back to help his friend.  Most of the time my end game is IFF-Geth station-SM-done, and I`m liberal with gib-editor for monies, resource and access to legion now.

[Randy1012]

I like to complete the main part of LotSB during the main story, after the Collector Ship. I head-canon it by saying that Shepard heads back to Illium at Miranda's request to rescue Oriana, and then after that's done he gets the Shadow Broker intel. He then takes it to Liara and they go take the Broker down.

 

When I do the epilogue depends on whether or not I'm romancing Liara. If I'm not romancing her I'll invite her up to the ship right away. If I am romancing her, I leave the epilogue until I complete every recruitment and loyalty mission prior to the Reaper IFF mission. As far as Shepard knows this is his last chance to see Liara before he heads off to what might be a suicide mission. So he invites her aboard, they have dinner/drinks whatever and tour the ship, and then they enjoy their evening together. Shepard then heads off to retrieve the IFF and complete his mission.

[RedCaesar97]

Maybe I have never done it after the SM, but before the SM Shepard and Liara start making out in the captain's cabin just before you cut to her leaving. How does that differ from after the SM?

 

Hmmmm.

 

i had one Shepard that had romanced Liara in ME1, then invited her to the cabin before the SM, but did not make out. Interesting...

[congokong]

I like to complete the main part of LotSB during the main story, after the Collector Ship. I head-canon it by saying that Shepard heads back to Illium at Miranda's request to rescue Oriana, and then after that's done he gets the Shadow Broker intel. He then takes it to Liara and they go take the Broker down.

 

When I do the epilogue depends on whether or not I'm romancing Liara. If I'm not romancing her I'll invite her up to the ship right away. If I am romancing her, I leave the epilogue until I complete every recruitment and loyalty mission prior to the Reaper IFF mission. As far as Shepard knows this is his last chance to see Liara before he heads off to what might be a suicide mission. So he invites her aboard, they have dinner/drinks whatever and tour the ship, and then they enjoy their evening together. Shepard then heads off to retrieve the IFF and complete his mission.

 

Aww, but Liara looks so sad when you put off your date. I can't do that to her.

 

"I don't think people in our line of work can afford to have dates." (maybe paraphrased)

[congokong]

Maybe I have never done it after the SM, but before the SM Shepard and Liara start making out in the captain's cabin just before you cut to her leaving. How does that differ from after the SM?

 

The "sex" part is no different. I've seen it both pre and post SM with all possible responses. The only differences in that scene are mentioning either Horizon or SM or Liara's line of dialogue after saying "This time, but you're going to leave again." That line in particular just feels so pre-SM. "When the reapers finally arrive you'll dive into the fray" may sound nice but doesn't fit as well. When the reapers come it will be everyone's mission to fight them. Shepard being on the Normandy to do it actually makes them one of the luckier/safe ones as you see from the ME3 codex regarding harvesting. Those poor people on earth weren't near as fortunate.

[cap and gown]

Aww, but Liara looks so sad when you put off your date. I can't do that to her.

 

"I don't think people in our line of work can afford to have dates." (maybe paraphrased)

 

 

Well, I always put off the "date" part until I have collected all the upgrades. Sometimes I put it off until right before doing the SM; the last thing Shepard does before going to get her crew back.

 

The dialogue just works better for me (at least with a romanced Liara) doing LotSB before the SM. Plus, I want access to the upgrades and squad reset terminal before the SM.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Hmmmm.

 

i had one Shepard that had romanced Liara in ME1, then invited her to the cabin before the SM, but did not make out. Interesting...

Might be a bug. I typically do LotSB early but my Shep gets his everytime.

[shepskisaac]

Does't really matter. It can be done at any point and will make sense. It's not like Arrival or Leviathan that really have to be done at specific points unless you can ignore major continuity issues

[congokong]

Does't really matter. It can be done at any point and will make sense. It's not like Arrival or Leviathan that really have to be done at specific points unless you can ignore major continuity issues

 

I'm just wondering why people claim the dialogue hints toward post-SM when if anything it seems the opposite. The comments about "the mission", "you're going to leave again", "you're with Cerberus", "I could use you on the Normandy," etc. just sound like it was geared towards pre-SM.

 

When should Leviathan be done? I always do it after the Rannoch missions and before Thessia. I'd like to have the SM be the last thing I do but Arrival's emphasis on the upcoming reaper invasion that defines ME3 including Shepard's prologue imprisonment just makes Arrival feel like a ME2 epilogue. You have to meta-game to make it flow better but whatever.

[Randy1012]

I'd like to have the SM be the last thing I do but Arrival's emphasis on the upcoming reaper invasion that defines ME3 including Shepard's prologue imprisonment just makes Arrival feel like a ME2 epilogue. You have to meta-game to make it flow better but whatever.

Post-SM is usually when I do Arrival, too, but just for the heck of it in one ME2 playthrough I did it in the middle of the game. I decided that for all the talk about them, the Collectors themselves really don't have a very large presence in the story, and the Collector General is the closest thing ME2 has to a central villain. By having the General appear to Shepard at the end of Arrival it gives him more of a role and makes him seem more menacing. That, and I think it actually kind of undermines ME2's terrific ending. Shepard looks out into space and knows that the Reapers are on their way--and then we actually see that happening out in dark space, as Harbinger and the rest of the Reapers prepare to unleash themselves upon the galaxy.

Also, I think the epilogue with Shepard and Hackett actually works better if you do Arrival pre-SM rather than post. Hackett acknowledges the Collector threat to humanity and tells Shepard that the Alliance is at least trying to do something to help, whereas in the vanilla game it feels like the Alliance is either unaware of the problem or unwilling to do anything about it. Shepard says that he'll turn himself in, but only after his mission is done. Well, if you do Arrival post-SM, then exactly what mission does Shepard have left to do? His mission was to stop the Collectors, and he did that. So really there's nothing keeping him from turning himself in to Hackett right then and there.

I don't do it immediately after Horizon, though. I know the game pretty much forces you to take Hackett's call right away, but I head-canon it by saying that the call comes in later on. I prefer to do it at some point after the Collector Ship, because after that you don't see the Collectors again until the Suicide Mission, which is a really long time if you do all of the loyalty missions and N7 missions before the Reaper IFF. So now I actually like to do Arrival somewhere in-between the Collector Ship and the Reaper IFF, roughly after half of the loyalty missions have been completed.

[NekkidNones]

Hmmmm.

i had one Shepard that had romanced Liara in ME1, then invited her to the cabin before the SM, but did not make out. Interesting...

I've had her do that to me too on my first run through of ME2 with maleshep(cannon run). Never did figure out why, didn't happen again either.

Do you recall if it was a femshep or maleshep playthough?

[shepskisaac]

When should Leviathan be done?

After Thessia. They modified Catalyst conversation to reflect post-Levi information, but they never touched Rannoch-Reaper or Thessia-Vendetta conversations. Both do not make sense if Shep already has the info from Leviathans.

[RedCaesar97]

I've had her do that to me too on my first run through of ME2 with maleshep(cannon run). Never did figure out why, didn't happen again either.

Do you recall if it was a femshep or maleshep playthough?

 

Male Shepard. 

[RedCaesar97]

When should Leviathan be done? 

 

Whenever you want the weapon mods. It has some good SMG mods, so if you use SMGs, you may want to do it before completing the Genophage story arc.

On the other hand, do it any time after the Citadel Coup if you want to take Tali or the Virmire survivor with you for some missions. 

[NekkidNones]

Male Shepard. 

 

My thought is we may have both been nice to Tali, and unable to brush her off.  (she's quite clingy)

 

On Topic - I've said this before in another thread, but will repeat it here as well.

Another insentive that suggests that LotSB should be done before SM, is the rewards that you get after defeating the shadow broker and installing Liara as the networks new overlord.  There are 2 weapon upgrades that you get by revisting the SB ship after completing several missions, and some petty resources that aren't really worth the fuel. 

 

However, there is some additional content that some of people miss in LotSB.  You can see some additional slides/vids beyond the first set available in the records room, after a time.  And the data gathered on key people in the game is expanded upon as you move forward in the plot of the game, available at the terminal close to the entrance of the main room, on SB ship.

 

Admittedly, they're technical reasons and not cannon persay.

[congokong]

Post-SM is usually when I do Arrival, too, but just for the heck of it in one ME2 playthrough I did it in the middle of the game. I decided that for all the talk about them, the Collectors themselves really don't have a very large presence in the story, and the Collector General is the closest thing ME2 has to a central villain. By having the General appear to Shepard at the end of Arrival it gives him more of a role and makes him seem more menacing. That, and I think it actually kind of undermines ME2's terrific ending. Shepard looks out into space and knows that the Reapers are on their way--and then we actually see that happening out in dark space, as Harbinger and the rest of the Reapers prepare to unleash themselves upon the galaxy.

Also, I think the epilogue with Shepard and Hackett actually works better if you do Arrival pre-SM rather than post. Hackett acknowledges the Collector threat to humanity and tells Shepard that the Alliance is at least trying to do something to help, whereas in the vanilla game it feels like the Alliance is either unaware of the problem or unwilling to do anything about it. Shepard says that he'll turn himself in, but only after his mission is done. Well, if you do Arrival post-SM, then exactly what mission does Shepard have left to do? His mission was to stop the Collectors, and he did that. So really there's nothing keeping him from turning himself in to Hackett right then and there.

I don't do it immediately after Horizon, though. I know the game pretty much forces you to take Hackett's call right away, but I head-canon it by saying that the call comes in later on. I prefer to do it at some point after the Collector Ship, because after that you don't see the Collectors again until the Suicide Mission, which is a really long time if you do all of the loyalty missions and N7 missions before the Reaper IFF. So now I actually like to do Arrival somewhere in-between the Collector Ship and the Reaper IFF, roughly after half of the loyalty missions have been completed.

 

You know, what you're saying makes sense. I should've done it mid-game afterall. It especially emphasizes the cutscene with the reapers coming after the SM if you do Arrival beforehand.

 

Note: I have done it pre-SM before but never thought about it the way you describe. I suppose it doesn't make much sense either to leave Kenson in batarian hands for so long.

[Han Shot First]

I prefer it after the Suicide Mission, because I like Liara's dialogue better when it occurs after the Suicide Mission rather than before. Instead of having a conversation with Shepard about his or her trepidations (or lack thereof) about going into battle against the Collectors, its about the impending Reaper invasion.

[congokong]

After Thessia. They modified Catalyst conversation to reflect post-Levi information, but they never touched Rannoch-Reaper or Thessia-Vendetta conversations. Both do not make sense if Shep already has the info from Leviathans.

 

I certainly agree when it comes to Rannoch when asking the reapers' motivations, but wasn't the Thessia conversation regarding who was responsible for "the pattern?" Wasn't that a reference to the catalyst which wasn't really disussed in Leviathan? They mentioned an "intelligence" but didn't give much detail. Still, I see what you mean.

 

Edit: Looking back I see you are right. Where's the "delete post" option?

[Arisugawa]

With the exception of the first time I played it, I always play LotSB pre-Suicide Mission.

 

For my FemShep, the one romancing Liara, it is the equivalent of her loyalty mission. It's the thing she has to deal with before going off on this potentially life-ending mission.

 

From a purely mechanical standpoint, I also want to have all the credits/upgrade items the DLC grants for the rest of the game, rather than getting them and never using them. It's usually the last chapter I play between Horizon and the Collector Vessel.