1483 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

@jtav
@DeinonSlayer
@MassivelyEffective0730
There were two previous games of lore and exposition that ME3 built upon. You POV was adequately expressed - there was no reason to have it repeated in ME3 for the sake of balance. Shepard is provided more than enough opportunity to advocate for whatever position and define a worldview in ME3.

[Steelcan]

@jtav
@DeinonSlayer
@MassivelyEffective0730
There were two previous games of lore and exposition that ME3 built upon. You POV was adequately expressed - there was no reason to have it repeated in ME3 for the sake of balance. Shepard is provided more than enough opportunity to advocate for whatever position and define a worldview in ME3.

 

So it was ok that the new players never got this information?

[AlanC9]

And it's not like anything changed about the geth. In ME1 Tali doesn't even pretend that the geth had done anything to deserve extermination except be intelligent and free-willed. You don't get to complain that genocide is wrong when it was your idea in the first place.

Though I wouldn't have minded Raan or someone complaining that the geth had done to the quarians exactly what the quarians had tried to do to the geth.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

And it's not like anything changed about the geth. In ME1 Tali doesn't even pretend that the geth had done anything to deserve extermination except be intelligent and free-willed. You don't get to complain that genocide is wrong when it was your idea in the first place.

 

Who's the you here? If you mean Shepard then they have dialogue right back in those initial conversations condemning the quarians for what they did. If you mean Tali then she changes her perspective after working with Legion in ME2.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

@jtav
@DeinonSlayer
@MassivelyEffective0730
There were two previous games of lore and exposition that ME3 built upon. You POV was adequately expressed - there was no reason to have it repeated in ME3 for the sake of balance. Shepard is provided more than enough opportunity to advocate for whatever position and define a worldview in ME3.

 

It wasn't about the sake of balance, it was for the sake of roleplay. And suffice to say, there was no means to roleplay Shepard the way I wanted to RP him. This statement really is limited on your account. It's not true, and we've already explained why it isn't. In fact, the matter of our POV being expressed in ME2 or ME1 and then disabling the ability to continue playing a Shepard with the same line of thought goes against your idea of balance. He's not given the opportunity to advocate his position or define his worldview in ME3 if you supported a certain perspective.

[Obadiah]

So it was ok that the new players never got this information?

Of course. They got brief synopses of the story, and that is a reasonable expectation.

[Obadiah]

It wasn't about the sake of balance, it was for the sake of roleplay. And suffice to say, there was no means to roleplay Shepard the way I wanted to RP him. This statement really is limited on your account. It's not true, and we've already explained why it isn't. In fact, the matter of our POV being expressed in ME2 or ME1 and then disabling the ability to continue playing a Shepard with the same line of thought goes against your idea of balance. He's not given the opportunity to advocate his position or define his worldview in ME3 if you supported a certain perspective.

Ok, what is this specific POV that you were suddenly completely unable to roleplay and needed to be in the game?

[Perpetual Nirvana]

Ok, what is this specific POV that you were suddenly completely unable to roleplay and needed to be in the game?

 

Well being pro-Cerberus for one.

[Obadiah]

Well being pro-Cerberus for one.

In ME3 Cerberus is experimenting on and killing people. To say that the ability to support them is missing is laughable and sociopathic. There is zero reason for that to be in ME3.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

In ME3 Cerberus is experimenting on and killing people. To say that the ability to support them is missing is laughable and sociopathic. There is zero reason for that to be in ME3.

 

Amd that's different to what they did on Pragia and Akuze...why exactly?

 

At the very least it makes handing the Collector Base to TIM entirely pointless. Oh wait, you get 10 more points of a war asset. Wow!

[Mcfly616]

Funny seeing people bash ME3 for the same exact things ME2 did. Whether it be pissing and moaning about Liara being all up in your business (when Miranda was up your ass throughout the entirety of ME2) OR the fact that you can't be "pro-cerberus" (yet, we were literally forced to work with Cerberus in ME2, no option to stay with the Alliance)


Take off the rose tinted goggles...

[Obadiah]

Amd that's different to what they did on Pragia and Akuze...why exactly?

At the very least it makes handing the Collector Base to TIM entirely pointless. Oh wait, you get 10 more points of a war asset. Wow!

And supporting that type of behavior is "missing"? I think that is just an unrealistic expectation.

[Barquiel]

Well, the difference is that they're indoctrinated in ME3 -> working for the reapers (if we're taking the catalyst at his word, then he flat out says the reapers control TIM).

It's a pretty unoriginal plot (I wanted to destroy Cerberus because of their goals and methods, and not because they're indoctrinated), but being pro-cerberus would be the same as being pro-collectors or pro-heretics.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

Funny, I could have sworn there was a topic just the other day complaining about ME2 forcing you to work wioth Cerberus...

[ImaginaryMatter]

Funny seeing people bash ME3 for the same exact things ME2 did. Whether it be pissing and moaning about Liara being all up in your business (when Miranda was up your ass throughout the entirety of ME2) OR the fact that you can't be "pro-cerberus" (yet, we were literally forced to work with Cerberus in ME2, no option to stay with the Alliance)


Take off the rose tinted goggles...

 

People complain about being forced to work with Cerberus quite often...

[jtav]

And there's nothing that replaces Cerberus. So the belief that humanity needs to be on its own, the Council system is hopelessly corrupt and should be dismantled, as well as a techno-progressive outlook is lumped in with Holocaust imagery. Yeah, real fair.

[Steelcan]

Radical thought here

 

 

maybe pro-Cerberus players wanted Cerberus to not be indoctrinated

[jtav]

People complain about being forced to work with Cerberus quite often...

And, well, Shepard could complain in 2. Shepard can't backtalk Hackett the way she could TIM.

[Mcfly616]

Radical thought here
 
 
maybe pro-Cerberus players wanted Cerberus to not be indoctrinated

fat chance...their leader has always been obsessed with Reaper Technology.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

fat chance...their leader has always been obsessed with Reaper Technology.

 

I'm obsessed with using Reaper Technology too. Just responsibly. There's nothing wrong with using it as long as you're careful with it.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

At the very least TIM acts like you've always been against him when you could have been quite supportive in ME2.

[Argolas]

I'm obsessed with using Reaper Technology too. Just responsibly. There's nothing wrong with using it as long as you're careful with it.

 

Sounds like what Dr. Kenson said.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And supporting that type of behavior is "missing"? I think that is just an unrealistic expectation.

 

Yes, it is indeed missing. I do indeed support the behavior and goals of TIM if it gets me the results I want.

 

As I can say, in ME3, there is a very large anti-utilitarian bias in this regard. I fully support TIM's goals and methods, just not his motivations in ME3, which are no longer his own.

 

As well, you treat Cerberus as though you always hated them in ME3, while ignoring the part where you can essentially choose to support them in ME2. I knew what they were. The real them. And I was fine with it. I wish more people were like them. We'd progress a hell of a lot faster.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't give consideration to 'morality and ethics' in my decisions. To me, the morality of an action is proportional directly to its conclusion and that conclusion is proportional to how it achieves or advances my goal. ME1 and ME2 let me play a Shepard like this. ME3 does not.

[Mcfly616]

I'm obsessed with using Reaper Technology too. Just responsibly. There's nothing wrong with using it as long as you're careful with it.

oh sure, I bet Dr. K, Rana Thonoptis, TIM had the same philosophy. (along with everybody else who has ever worked with Reaper Tech throughout the Trilogy)



"Oh, we just need to be super careful and there's no way we'll get indoctrinated. Only careless idiots get indoctrinated....."

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Sounds like what Dr. Kenson said.

 

Well, she and TIM obviously weren't careful with it. 

 

It's why I destroy the Collector Base. I don't destroy it out of some misplaced or foolish notion of idealism or morality. I destroy it because it's too much of a white elephant to get the kind of use out of it that I require. It's like the one ring of Sauron. It's too much for us to handle without very high risk of indoctrination.