1483 réponses à ce sujet

[voteDC]

It's surprising to see that people wanted a stupid ending because they couldn't see the potential the game had. The ending actually revealed this potential. Trying to understand the ending just with the ending doesn't make sense because the writers did a very good job to create an ending based on the whole writing of the trilogy.

The flaw was not in the idea but in the execution.

We were told that the choice was to have vastly different results. Then shown three near identical sets of ending cinematics.

You don't tell people things are going to be different and then show them that it isn't.

Plus a stupid ending? Why would a 'happy' ending be stupid? You'd still have death and destruction on a massive scale. Hunger and disease would be rife on a level never seen before. You'd have conflict between turian and quarians over the limited amount of food they have available, as they can't eat anything from our system.

A happy ending, well it wouldn't really be too happy would it.

If we are meant to speculate on what happens after the endings we got. Why couldn't we speculate with one with Shepard surviving. and being reunited with friends and the love interest.

[cyrslash1974]

It's surprising to see that people wanted a stupid ending because they couldn't see the potential the game had. The ending actually revealed this potential. Trying to understand the ending just with the ending doesn't make sense because the writers did a very good job to create an ending based on the whole writing of the trilogy.

 

Even if the ending makes sens, the final solutions proposed are badly written. Based on the whole trilogy, you can't agree with the logic of the catalyst (remember discussion with Legion, difference Geth/Heretic, the fact that synthetics who fighted organics were controled by reapers or received help from them...).

 

The sole synthetic which respects the "logic" explaining that organics would be destroyed by synthetics seems to be the catalyst itself.

[Iakus]

It's hard to reconcile that with the statement at the panel, actually, since it was clearly stated that at some stage of the design Shepard wasn't supposed to live at all.I suppose it's conceivable that first came the outline where Shepard lived in Destroy, then they decided to kill Shepard, and then they decided to put in the "glimmer of hope" after people objected to Shepard always dying in the revision. But I think it's more likely that the outline is the revision, and they never intended any other presentation for Shepard living.

 

THen why teh "glimmer of hope" line at the panel?  Why not "Shepard lives.  End of story"?

[Iakus]

It's surprising to see that people wanted a stupid ending because they couldn't see the potential the game had. The ending actually revealed this potential. Trying to understand the ending just with the ending doesn't make sense because the writers did a very good job to create an ending based on the whole writing of the trilogy.

 

I certainly didn't want a stupid ending.

 

Sadly, that's what i got anyway.

 

Sure maybe it's a brilliant ending to some other story.  But not to what I'd been playing across a three game arc.

[rekn2]

some one posted awhile back (not going to bother looking for it) that BW can do w/e it wants with its own product.

 

thats true but im waiting for reviews etc. not purchased ign ones either. i havent preordered a game since me3 and i dont see myself ever doing that again.

 

i actually feel ripped off because of me3's ending

[3DandBeyond]

You feel like that because the game and story are all set up to be from your point of view.  You are supposed to be Shepard.  Ultimately, the person you care the most about is Shepard.  Who s/he cares about are truly important to you.  Shepard also cares about the bigger galaxy and can (and does for me) care about the ability of people to decide their fate and to take responsibility for it.

 

In 3 games, Shepard grew to realize that s/he had a big impact on changing people (as well as the galaxy) so that they could care about more than just their own immediate petty squabbles or whatever selfish thing they kept on doing.  In 3 games, Shepard watched them grow, helped it happen, and was the catalyst for change amongst all the races.  At least that was one way to play this game and watch the story progress.  The loyalty missions in ME2 reinforced this on a more intimate scale, where it was possible to help and to see the characters grow.  Every one of them grew from being some sort of outcast to becoming something so much more, and Shepard helped to do that-helped to make them decide to be better versions of themselves.  That was about redemption.  Shepard's redemption was obvious, but theirs was to me something special.

 

In ME3, it's like none of that matters.  The galaxy at Shepard's insistence, finally was able to work together.  In my game, the unimaginable happened; the geth and the quarian became symbiotic.  That was a form of synthesis at its best because it was a mutual desire.  And each was helped by it.  The krogan once again worked to become one people.  And so on and so forth.  But in the end, so what?  If you make any choice then it's like agreeing the people of the galaxy could never do anything on their own and need outside assistance.  If you make some choices then the future is determined at least in part by external forces (in synthesis it's an alien kind of thing, tech, that's infused internally), so the future is not to be built by the will of the people of the galaxy and by them making better choices.  If you choose destroy, well, some of the people that actually had learned a better way have to die.  No matter what ending, Shepard's fate is at best stupid and not satisfying.  Dying for stupid crap is at best annoying.  Being left in a pile of crap with the oh so cutesy, "but Shepard's really alive" gasp for air is juvenile. 

 

Cutesy is not rewarding for the hundreds of hours, the years, the time spent creating your favorite Shepard and then trying to make the "right" choices for you and trying to see how it impacts how it all ends.  I wanted a true ending, not a "the end?" type of one.  I will always see it as stupid.

[wright1978]

I certainly didn't want a stupid ending.

 

Sadly, that's what i got anyway.

 

Sure maybe it's a brilliant ending to some other story.  But not to what I'd been playing across a three game arc.

 

 

My mind boggles at the thought that somewhere out there might be a game concept that Me3's utter trainwreck ending is a brilliant perfect fit.

[3DandBeyond]

I certainly didn't want a stupid ending.

 

Sadly, that's what i got anyway.

 

Sure maybe it's a brilliant ending to some other story.  But not to what I'd been playing across a three game arc.

Yep, and that's a big part of it.  Bioware did copy the endings of various other games and movies and such-they even all but directly copied the ending of a cartoon, then combined them, assigned different names to the characters, and called it a day.  They phoned in the ending.  It's like all along I was reading say, "War and Peace" and then got the combined endings of "Killer Clowns From Outer Space", "The Sopranos", and "Seinfeld".   And then I was told it was original and brainy, so I couldn't possibly understand it.

[mopotter]

It's surprising to see that people wanted a stupid ending because they couldn't see the potential the game had. The ending actually revealed this potential. Trying to understand the ending just with the ending doesn't make sense because the writers did a very good job to create an ending based on the whole writing of the trilogy.

You can't hear me but I'm screaming now.  Screaming in my head since I'm at work but, still screaming.  

 

How many endings did they have total,  Seven, possibly more depending on your esm.  So at least seven endings and with all those  endings, some people still complain that those of us who wanted, just one, just one out of at least seven endings where there was hope for Shepards future.  

 

The writers did a very good job on a lot of things.  They did not do a good job in making ONE out of SEVEN endings the kind that makes the other endings worth playing.  They gave us a burnt body and said here, you decide if someone found your Shepard and we will let  your LI or friend smile and not put up Shepards plaque.  That is pure spite or laziness, or just someone who after years of writing about Shepard was sick of it.   

[mopotter]

I have the game just for you, it's called Spec Ops:The Line, it makes you feel like a "big goddamn hero". Play it, and then see whether you still hold the same view.

Not interested.  Don't play shooters, don't play fixed characters.  

 

And again, it's not the sacrifice ending, it's not the "I'd like to teach the world to sing" ending lets just all get along and love everyone, it's not even the I'm so amazing I can control Reapers where everyone else fails.  It's the slap in the face, we don't care that you spent 5 years with Shepard, and we have more than just one ending, we are not letting Shepard have any chance of hope.  Oh wait, lets give the body a quick breath and let you can decide if Shepard was found in time, because we don't care.  

[Iakus]

You can't hear me but I'm screaming now.  Screaming in my head since I'm at work but, still screaming.  

 

How many endings did they have total,  Seven, possibly more depending on your esm.  So at least seven endings and with all those  endings, some people still complain that those of us who wanted, just one, just one out of at least seven endings where there was hope for Shepards future.  

 

The writers did a very good job on a lot of things.  They did not do a good job in making ONE out of SEVEN endings the kind that makes the other endings worth playing.  They gave us a burnt body and said here, you decide if someone found your Shepard and we will let  your LI or friend smile and not put up Shepards plaque.  That is pure spite or laziness, or just someone who after years of writing about Shepard was sick of it.   

 

 

Three more outcomes with highly unpleasant implications...

[Massa FX]

It's surprising to see that people wanted a stupid ending because they couldn't see the potential the game had. The ending actually revealed this potential. Trying to understand the ending just with the ending doesn't make sense because the writers did a very good job to create an ending based on the whole writing of the trilogy.

So...the ending was smart and we are stupid if we didn't like it?

We failed to see its potential.

Uh huh.

[angol fear]

So...the ending was smart and we are stupid if we didn't like it?

We failed to see its potential.

Uh huh.

When did I talked about liking or not?

 

You opposed fun and art : "Hopefully well get back to the "fun" entertaining game experience instead of the "art" experience in the next ME installment." You gave a pejorative meaning of art : "deflated balloon with the r,g,b "art". But you actually failed at understanding why Bioware talked about artistic integrity and why some people like me think or have shown that Mass Effect is art. If the ending was what people were expecting it couldn't be art because it would have written against its own writing. The potential of the game has been revealed by the ending, and the writers have made a great job doing their story instead of another Hollywood story (which are more and more stupid). Some people have understood the game, but there are more who did not.

 

And, behind your post and Julia's one there is a very dangerous ideology. I know you didn't do it intentionally though.

[AlanC9]

 
How many endings did they have total,  Seven, possibly more depending on your esm.  So at least seven endings and with all those  endings, some people still complain that those of us who wanted, just one, just one out of at least seven endings where there was hope for Shepards future.  
 
The writers did a very good job on a lot of things.  They did not do a good job in making ONE out of SEVEN endings the kind that makes the other endings worth playing.  They gave us a burnt body and said here, you decide if someone found your Shepard and we will let  your LI or friend smile and not put up Shepards plaque.  That is pure spite or laziness, or just someone who after years of writing about Shepard was sick of it.

How come you don't have"hope" there?

[Iakus]

When did I talked about liking or not?

 

You opposed fun and art : "Hopefully well get back to the "fun" entertaining game experience instead of the "art" experience in the next ME installment." You gave a pejorative meaning of art : "deflated balloon with the r,g,b "art". But you actually failed at understanding why Bioware talked about artistic integrity and why some people like me think or have shown that Mass Effect is art. If the ending was what people were expecting it couldn't be art because it would have written against its own writing. The potential of the game has been revealed by the ending, and the writers have made a great job doing their story instead of another Hollywood story (which are more and more stupid). Some people have understood the game, but there are more who did not.

 

And, behind your post and Julia's one there is a very dangerous ideology. I know you didn't do it intentionally though.

The primary purpose of a game is to be fun.  If it's "artistic" as well, that's a bonus.

 

The reason why some of us are using "art" as a perjorative term is that Bioware seems to value being artistic over being entertaining.  Not a good long-term business strategy for a video game company. 

 

And ME3 could have had a different ending and still be artistic.  ME3 was open to any number of possible outcomes, from apacolyptically tragic to a triumphant Shepard striding across the battlefield like a bad@$$.  Bioware simply chose not to provide much variety.  They were so tunnel-visioned on tragedy they ignored what a large number of fans wanted.  Even after the backlash.

 

I think it's you who didn't understand the game, and all the myriad varieties it had the potential for.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

When did I talked about liking or not?

 

You opposed fun and art : "Hopefully well get back to the "fun" entertaining game experience instead of the "art" experience in the next ME installment." You gave a pejorative meaning of art : "deflated balloon with the r,g,b "art". But you actually failed at understanding why Bioware talked about artistic integrity and why some people like me think or have shown that Mass Effect is art. If the ending was what people were expecting it couldn't be art because it would have written against its own writing. The potential of the game has been revealed by the ending, and the writers have made a great job doing their story instead of another Hollywood story (which are more and more stupid). Some people have understood the game, but there are more who did not.

 

And, behind your post and Julia's one there is a very dangerous ideology. I know you didn't do it intentionally though.

 

What's up Txgoldrush?

[AlanC9]

What's up Txgoldrush?

You sure? Check the join date.

[ImaginaryMatter]

When did I talked about liking or not?

 

You opposed fun and art : "Hopefully well get back to the "fun" entertaining game experience instead of the "art" experience in the next ME installment." You gave a pejorative meaning of art : "deflated balloon with the r,g,b "art". But you actually failed at understanding why Bioware talked about artistic integrity and why some people like me think or have shown that Mass Effect is art. If the ending was what people were expecting it couldn't be art because it would have written against its own writing. The potential of the game has been revealed by the ending, and the writers have made a great job doing their story instead of another Hollywood story (which are more and more stupid). Some people have understood the game, but there are more who did not.

 

And, behind your post and Julia's one there is a very dangerous ideology. I know you didn't do it intentionally though.

 

Well sure it's art. But like my kindergarten finger paints that doesn't make it necessarily good.

[Jukaga]

The more I come to appreciate Miranda, her relationship with Shepard, Lazarus, former 2nd in Command of Cerberus the more I feel it was an inexcusable crime that she wasn't a regular squadmate in ME3. Having her whole story be about her sister again was tiresome and there is simply no reason she shouldn't have rejoined the ship after Sanctuary. Wasted, wasted potential of male shep's 'true' love.

[Argolas]

Every former squaddie that wasn't one in ME3 has fans. I guess they should have included them all.

[Jukaga]

Every former squaddie that wasn't one in ME3 has fans. I guess they should have included them all.

Well no one liked Jacob, so that's fine.

i liked Jack, but her reason for not rejoining actually made sense.

Zaeed should have come back, no question.

Kasumi I like but really she never should have been there in the first place, she'd of been better used as an ally npc, not a squaddie.

Grunt I can take or leave but again his reason makes sense.

Samara I could see rejoining, but whatever I never liked her much beyond her voice and model.

[cyrslash1974]

Mass Effect games has been thought like a RPG trilogy, a serie where choices and decisions taken during the 3 games should have an impact at the end of the trilogy. For people like me who started the serie in 2007 with ME1, who read the novels, the comics, who have invested time and money in this universe, these endings are like a kind of betrayal, artistic integrity or not.

 

Obviously I understand the message behind the endings, but it was badly written and the philosophical final solutions sadly irrational. If the potential of the game is revealed by the endings, so the game is bad.

[Reorte]

The more I come to appreciate Miranda, her relationship with Shepard, Lazarus, former 2nd in Command of Cerberus the more I feel it was an inexcusable crime that she wasn't a regular squadmate in ME3. Having her whole story be about her sister again was tiresome and there is simply no reason she shouldn't have rejoined the ship after Sanctuary. Wasted, wasted potential of male shep's 'true' love.

I wasn't ever a massive Miranda fan but considering the emphasis on Cerberus it seems like she could've had plenty of information that would've been useful for ME3, so her being along for the ride would've made sense. It might've taken a bit of effort to get her on board an Alliance vessel though, particularly if the player had played ME2 quite pro-Cerberus.

[wright1978]

I wasn't ever a massive Miranda fan but considering the emphasis on Cerberus it seems like she could've had plenty of information that would've been useful for ME3, so her being along for the ride would've made sense. It might've taken a bit of effort to get her on board an Alliance vessel though, particularly if the player had played ME2 quite pro-Cerberus.

All the more reason to have her as a source of friction with the alliance crew and a point of solace for Shep's less happy to be thrust back into the bosom of the alliance. Ther'd be a certain irony to find her in a similar position to how jack felt in me2.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I think the problem is the whole concept of the crucible itself. It transforms the might of the galaxy's fleets into UPS, a simple delivery system. The point was to gather together the people of the galaxy to fight the Reapers, or at least it should've been. It became focused so much on that, and "we can't beat the Reapers conventionally" was said so many times without any actual backup in the plot itself that it was clear that the writers just used it as an excuse. The most foreshadowing or any thing in the story to the goddamn catalyst events was Garrus's ruthless calculus.

Why would they build the crucible anyway? Nobody knew what it would do. The plans were incomplete. No intelligent leader would tie up so many resources in such an unknown. 
 

Javik himself says the Protheans lost because they were blockaded from backing up other fleets and their strategies were homogenized in military strategy. They couldn't access the relay network and had just won a hugely destructive war that he calls the "Metacon War." The modern galaxy has none of these disadvantages.