1483 réponses à ce sujet

[clarkusdarkus]

Lesson learned is dont get too attached to the next protagonist if they was happy to leave the last one under some rubble letting you imagine what happens. We paid to think what would happen rather than be shown like everyone else

[CronoDragoon]

It targets all synthetics (doesn't say synthetic life) and tech is synthetic.

 

"A synthetic" and "synthetic" are different. The former is shorthand for synthetic life in the MEverse.

[Iakus]

Lesson learned is dont get too attached to the next protagonist if they was happy to leave the last one under some rubble letting you imagine what happens. We paid to think what would happen rather than be shown like everyone else

Sadly true. 

 

That's going to be the driving questions for me when the next game comes out:

 

"Why should I trust you again?"  "Whay should I invest myself in Mass Effect again?"

[ImaginaryMatter]

The kid says all tech will be damaged.  I'm pretty sure that a damaged pacemaker (today's tech) inside someone would be a bad thing.  Sure, it may still keep the heart beating depending up the damage and even in time, but at what rate, to what end.  And the tech inside people is much more integrated, especially in Shepard's case.  Damaged things don't work very well.  And just because the writers tried to mitigate the effects of Destroy and show it not doing such complete damage as the kid implies, that doesn't mean it makes sense or doesn't lead to the belief that Shepard SHOULD be dead.

 

The writers take on all this is to tell you one thing, make it totally clear that this is what happened and then forget about it and do something else.

 

It targets all synthetics (doesn't say synthetic life) and tech is synthetic.  It damages all tech.  And well the relay, the citadel, the death of EDI, the lack of the geth in the super silly "everyone's happy" slide shows indicates it does some wonderful damage to at least SOME tech.  And the damage of more intricate parts especially those within someone would be far more catastrophic than the damage suffered by some larger thing.  Like the difference between doing damage to say a prosthetic hand as opposed to a car.  The car might still drive, but the hand would be probably less likely to grasp.

 

Except when the kid uses the word 'Synthetic' it doesn't seem to be referring to things in general that are made artificially but specifically to AI. It's description of 'Synthetics' has traits like self determination and evolving which doesn't apply to something like an omni-tool. And like the term Organic the child mostly refers to Synthetics without adding the word life, it just seems like the kid is using it has shorthand; the whole conversation is about sentient life (this isn't too big of a stretch, when the kid refers to Organics it isn't talking about plants).

[Argolas]

"Whay should I invest myself in Mass Effect again?"

 

Because you want to.

[Iakus]

Because you want to.

Sure I want to.  Mass Effect is a great setting, full of interesting characters.

 

But if that ending already happened once, and the developers thought it was so awesome (despite the backlash) why shouldn't I think it won't happen again?

 

Why would I want to take that risk?  You think I'll be so quick to get in the van again just because they offer more candy?

[CronoDragoon]

If only there was a way that you didn't have to take any risk at all, like a place where you could ask other fans or something how the ending is once the game comes out.

[Massa FX]

Don't buy the game Iakus. You can read about it here and watch other people play the game on YouTube.

Me? I'm playing the game at first opportunity because its a space RPG done by Bioware. I've bought more BW games than any other developer. Even Bethesda.

Yes. ME3 was meh at the end. Yes DA2 was meh. But all their other products merit my dev love.

[Iakus]

If only there was a way that you didn't have to take any risk at all, like a place where you could ask other fans or something how the ending is once the game comes out.

 

If only there were more decent rpg developers out there

 

If only trust could be easily rebuilt

 

If only this wasn't the latest (and worst) in a continuing downward trend

[CronoDragoon]

If only there were more decent rpg developers out there

 

There are. Besides BioWare, there's CDPR and Obsidian, and more if you count JRPGs.

 

If only trust could be easily rebuilt

 

Don't ever trust a company to begin with. They are not your friend and never were. Buy games that appeal to you and that you like, don't buy games you won't. What you have sounds like a vendetta, and that's kind of your problem.

 

If only this wasn't the latest (and worst) in a continuing downward trend

 

Too bad it's not.

[mopotter]

Lesson learned is dont get too attached to the next protagonist if they was happy to leave the last one under some rubble letting you imagine what happens. We paid to think what would happen rather than be shown like everyone else

 

I hope they don't do another series with the same protagonist in each game.  I really think it wouldn't have bothered me as much if it had been someone other than Shepard.  I wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have been as connected. 

[Iakus]

 

Don't ever trust a company to begin with. They are not your friend and never were. Buy games that appeal to you and that you like, don't buy games you won't. What you have sounds like a vendetta, and that's kind of your problem.

 

A vendetta makes it sound like I want revenge.  Why would I want that?

 

What I want is to be able to believe in a developer that had consistently delivered a superior product for over a decade.  Who has in the last few years seen a sudden, sharp decline in quality (and I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed this).  I want to believe in them again, but have very little reason to.

 

A vendetta for Bioware?  If anything, I'm mourning them.  Or rather, I'm mourning for what they once were.

[wright1978]

I hope they don't do another series with the same protagonist in each game.  I really think it wouldn't have bothered me as much if it had been someone other than Shepard.  I wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have been as connected.

Disagree I hope they have the bravery to have a player characterised protagonist spanning more than one game, even if it is 2 games rather than 3. People getting attached to a character is a good thing not a bad one, it was their crazy awful train wreck of an ending and un fathomable lack of understanding of attachment that was at fault not the attachment.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Except when the kid uses the word 'Synthetic' it doesn't seem to be referring to things in general that are made artificially but specifically to AI. It's description of 'Synthetics' has traits like self determination and evolving which doesn't apply to something like an omni-tool. And like the term Organic the child mostly refers to Synthetics without adding the word life, it just seems like the kid is using it has shorthand; the whole conversation is about sentient life (this isn't too big of a stretch, when the kid refers to Organics it isn't talking about plants).

 

Yet in synthesis "organic" refers to everything. "Technology on which you depend" is another one mentioned. Originally this was pretty much everything. It got retconned. A lot of stuff got retconned in April 2012 at SDCC. "The Mass Relays are not destroyed, they're just damaged." That was one of them. The kid had said: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays."  

 

"The starships are not destroyed, but still have conventional FTL." That was another retcon, and all of them kept coming because the EC was already in the works.

[von uber]

The kid also says now that you will not lose more than has already been lost.
But then the geth die, soooooooo...

[CronoDragoon]

A vendetta makes it sound like I want revenge.  Why would I want that?

 

 

Apparently because they made a couple games you didn't care for. Don't ask me; I don't think it makes sense either.

 

 

What I want is to be able to believe in a developer that had consistently delivered a superior product for over a decade.  Who has in the last few years seen a sudden, sharp decline in quality (and I'm certainly not the only one who has noticed this).  I want to believe in them again, but have very little reason to.

 

Besides the fact that I'm hardly the only one who completely disagrees with you in regards to quality, there's actually a lot of reason to believe they won't repeat ME3's ending. Do you actually know any other developer that listens as much to fan feedback as BioWare? Hell, if anything they listen too much to fan feedback. Congratulations on using the fact that they didn't completely redo the ending because of negative feedback: they only spent 3 months fixing up a free DLC. Yeah, very little reason.

 

And no, I don't care that the EC didn't fix your issues with the ending. Because then this is just complaining that BioWare doesn't listen to you in particular, which would be a fruitless path to venture down.

 

 

 

A vendetta for Bioware?  If anything, I'm mourning them.  Or rather, I'm mourning for what they once were.

 

Well, you keep doing that, but I don't see how this is relevant to your purchase of their next game. If it's released and people say it's great and it has a satisfactory ending, are you going to buy it?

[Iakus]

 

Besides the fact that I'm hardly the only one who completely disagrees with you in regards to quality, there's actually a lot of reason to believe they won't repeat ME3's ending. Do you actually know any other developer that listens as much to fan feedback as BioWare? Hell, if anything they listen too much to fan feedback. Congratulations on using the fact that they didn't completely redo the ending because of negative feedback: they only spent 3 months fixing up a free DLC. Yeah, very little reason.

 

And no, I don't care that the EC didn't fix your issues with the ending. Because then this is just complaining that BioWare doesn't listen to you in particular, which would be a fruitless path to venture down.

 

 

Not just my issues.  A lot of people's issues.  They spent three months on a largely cosmetic dlc devoted to lecturing the audience that the same old endings really weren't so bad.  We were all just confused.  That shows me how much they listened.

 

Well, you keep doing that, but I don't see how this is relevant to your purchase of their next game. If it's released and people say it's great and it has a satisfactory ending, are you going to buy it?

 

 

Depends on multiple factors:

 

Reviews of DAI

Who says it's great

Whether MP ties into it at all

MENext's story and how much ME3's ending ties into it (the less the better)

[mopotter]

Disagree I hope they have the bravery to have a player characterised protagonist spanning more than one game, even if it is 2 games rather than 3. People getting attached to a character is a good thing not a bad one, it was their crazy awful train wreck of an ending and un fathomable lack of understanding of attachment that was at fault not the attachment.

OK, that makes sense.  I'll rewrite it - I hope they don't do another game with the same character unless they can do it without a train wreck of an ending.   

 

And that the character I start with is still mine at the end.  I didn't have that big of a problem with ME3 because most of my Shepards are closer to paragn than not, but I could see where someone who wasn't as polite could have issues.

[von uber]

Thing is me1 and me2 had perfectly satisfactory endings. Me3 they really cocked up but that is no reason to think they would do the same for the next one.

Oh cool, cocked is another one that goes under the radar.
Cocked.
Bollocks.
Cack.
Arse.

Hmm.

What else.

[CronoDragoon]

Not just my issues.  A lot of people's issues.  They spent three months on a largely cosmetic dlc devoted to lecturing the audience that the same old endings really weren't so bad.  We were all just confused.  That shows me how much they listened.

 

And a lot of people had no issues. A lot more people had issues that weren't your issues. But besides that, the EC wasn't just cosmetic. Correcting plot holes and retconning the relay destruction isn't telling your audience they were confused, it's the storytelling equivalent of "oops"!

 

Depends on multiple factors:

 

Reviews of DAI

Who says it's great

Whether MP ties into it at all

MENext's story and how much ME3's ending ties into it (the less the better)

 

So why are you asking if you already know the answers?

[Reorte]

Besides the fact that I'm hardly the only one who completely disagrees with you in regards to quality, there's actually a lot of reason to believe they won't repeat ME3's ending. Do you actually know any other developer that listens as much to fan feedback as BioWare? Hell, if anything they listen too much to fan feedback.

They sometimes seem to take the wrong message from it though. Don't like driving the Mako over very lumpy planets? "People don't like exploration, scrap the whole thing". Don't like fiddling with ME1's inventory? "People don't like customisation." I suspect that I'm being unfair with the Mako (insufficient time and resources to come up with something better for ME2) but not so much the inventory.

 

 

Congratulations on using the fact that they didn't completely redo the ending because of negative feedback: they only spent 3 months fixing up a free DLC. Yeah, very little reason.

Saying "They did something" isn't much of an argument. What they did is just as important as whether they did anything. If you like what they did then fair enough but don't expect everyone else to and still be happy just because they did something.

[mopotter]

Apparently because they made a couple games you didn't care for. Don't ask me; I don't think it makes sense either.

 

 

 

Besides the fact that I'm hardly the only one who completely disagrees with you in regards to quality, there's actually a lot of reason to believe they won't repeat ME3's ending. Do you actually know any other developer that listens as much to fan feedback as BioWare? Hell, if anything they listen too much to fan feedback. Congratulations on using the fact that they didn't completely redo the ending because of negative feedback: they only spent 3 months fixing up a free DLC. Yeah, very little reason.

 

And no, I don't care that the EC didn't fix your issues with the ending. Because then this is just complaining that BioWare doesn't listen to you in particular, which would be a fruitless path to venture down.

 

 

Well, you keep doing that, but I don't see how this is relevant to your purchase of their next game. If it's released and people say it's great and it has a satisfactory ending, are you going to buy it?

Me, - I've pre-ordered all past games by BW because I had a past gaming relationship with them.  I'm on the cliff with DA:I because I like David G a lot but I'm not ready to jump yet.

 

If I am not sure about the game, I'll be asking people I know and trust to tell me the truth, People who can accept that they liked ME's ending and I didn't.  If they say no, I'll skip it.  

 

I played FA 3.  I didn't get it when it came out because i didn't know i could play a female.  I enjoyed it a lot.  Then it ending with the mutant refusing to do anything saying - oh you have to do this or send another human to die.  I was ready to pitch the game in the trash when I found out that apparently quite a few people didn't like this and they had actually listened.  A DLC that anyone who liked the ending could ignore, but anyone who wanted to, could save their character survive and die another day.  They did a much better job of listening than BW did.

[CronoDragoon]

They sometimes seem to take the wrong message from it though. Don't like driving the Mako over very lumpy planets? "People don't like exploration, scrap the whole thing". Don't like fiddling with ME1's inventory? "People don't like customisation." I suspect that I'm being unfair with the Mako (insufficient time and resources to come up with something better for ME2) but not so much the inventory.

 

Well, as far as the Mako goes whether removing it was the right message is in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad it's gone and I hope it never returns.

 

I agree that essentially removing inventory in ME2 was not the best thing, but because they listen to feedback, they found a nice balance in ME3 between ME1's weapon customization and ME2's streamlined approach.

 

Saying "They did something" isn't much of an argument. What they did is just as important as whether they did anything.

 

If what they did is just as important, then my argument is just as good as yours, logically.

 

If you like what they did then fair enough but don't expect everyone else to and still be happy just because they did something.

 

I'm not asking them to be happy. I only brought it up because there is precedent for BW to listen to fan feedback, so saying there's very little reason to believe they won't pull another ME3 ending is pretty groundless.

 

A DLC that anyone who liked the ending could ignore, but anyone who wanted to could she their character survive and die another day.  They did a much better job of listening than BW did.

 

Sure, as long as you ponied up the cash for it. You really think charging $30 for another ending would have been a good PR move for BioWare? Personally I was advocating paid alternate ending DLC from the start, but I understand why they didn't do it.

[Iakus]

And a lot of people had no issues. A lot more people had issues that weren't your issues. But besides that, the EC wasn't just cosmetic. Correcting plot holes and retconning the relay destruction isn't telling your audience they were confused, it's the storytelling equivalent of "oops"!

 

 

Actually right from the start they were insisting the relays weren't destroyed.  The fleets got home "Nobody starved" these "retcons" were cosmetic changes because people (rightly) pointed out that the low and high EMS endings were virtually identical.

 

But substantively, EC doesn't change a darn thing.  It only provides extra details.

 

This is why from Day 1 I was saying that ME3 needed more and more varied endings.  Not the same endings with more details.

 

 

So why are you asking if you already know the answers?

 

Because that's what would make me consider buying.  Not an absolute yes/no.

[Little Princess Peach]

Question is did we finish the game or is Shepard in the matrix?