1483 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Ok. So Shep is dead. Move on.

[CronoDragoon]

@ChronoDragon

 

Maybe what many are most upset with is the presentation? Maybe iakus was exaggerating to get a point across?

 I certainly think that's that case. The scene isn't emotionally satisfying. I agree. But the "he might be dead/dying" argument just misses the whole point of the scene, which is to show that he survived. If you wanted more, then fine. That's totally cool.

 

I'm just not a creative soul, and I can't see any way out. Except Divine Intervention.

 

The beam's still active, you know. All someone has to do is go into it and they are within 200 yards of where Shepard is, at most.

[AlanC9]

Maybe what many are most upset with is the presentation? Maybe iakus was exaggerating to get a point across?

Yeah, he does that a lot.

It's something we do here. He makes an argument he doesn't actually believe, and I take it seriously.

[eyezonlyii]

I'm just confused as to why they didn't show Shepard's face. Sure, I would have loved a reunion scene with the, but barring that, if the scene was supposed to be "proof" of Shepard living, why not go all the way and show him/her waking up and looking to the sky or something? 

[jtav]

The breath scene has an air of "oh fine" as if the writers really wanted Shep to die in all endings, felt that had to include one where he lived and did the bare minimum.

[Iakus]

 

The beam's still active, you know. All someone has to do is go into it and they are within 200 yards of where Shepard is, at most.

 

And who knows about the Magic Space Elevator?  Who knows the spot where Shepard is currently.  The place where "no organic has ever been"?

[Iakus]

The breath scene has an air of "oh fine" as if the writers really wanted Shep to die in all endings, felt that had to include one where he lived and did the bare minimum.

 

That's pretty much exactly what it feels like.

 

And they didn't even do the minimum

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

When I first played the game, at 3:20 am on March 22, 2012, when Shepard took the breath it was clear to me that Shepard survived. I was using cinematic convention. 

 

When the questions started being asked and I started reading the forums, and I started seeing ambiguous answers coming from devs on twitter and some in the forum, and the infamous troll at PAX and at SDCC it became very ambiguous. The "Schroedinger's Cat" version of Shepard being both alive and dead at the same time was a real kicker. 

 

I really don't know why BW devs couldn't have just come out and said: "If you got the breath scene, it means that Shepard survived," and just left it at that. No trolls. Nothing afterward. Next question. 

 

"Was he rescued?"

"We didn't write that part."

 

It was that f***ing simple.

 

The breath scene had more impact in the Original Ending than it does in the Extended Cut. In the OE it meant something. In the EC it really feels tacked on. In the Extended Cut, they needed to explain the breath scene like they did everything else by changing the view and having a hand grab Shepard's arm. Unless it's a cliffhanger and Shepard is coming back in another game.

 

Sorry, but that's the way I feel about it. But speculations for everyone! Are you speculating?

[Mcfly616]

1 Because it's the player's character.  Players want to know if they have "won" And they want that victory to feel satisfying.  Unlike movies or tv players were active participants, and they want to know that their activities paid off.  That this is in fact the "good ending" Simply making the ending slightly different by tacking on a few extra seconds of a charred body that's not quite dead yet isn't enough.
 
) Because it didn't follow the conventions of the previous games.  Star Wars is not 2001.  You don't expect Luke Skywalker to go, My God, it's full of stars!" followed by a trippy ending as he becomes the Starchild.  Similarly you don't expect Dave Bowman to pull out a lightsaber and Carve HAL out of the ship.
 
Look at the first two games.  Shepard's survival is made abundantly clear.  Shep climbs out of the rubble.  Shepard leaps to the Normandy and gets pulled aboard by Joker.  Shepard was not an existential philosopher.  Not a hockey mask-wearing monster.  Not some mystical savior.  Shepard was an action hero.  And should have been treated as such.  Shepard's living or dying should have been abundantly clear in all outcomes.

you should really stop comparing Mass Effect to Star Wars...

[KaiserShep]

Ok. So Shep is dead. Move on.

The overworked scanner between the CIC and the war room says otherwise.

[Iakus]

you should really stop comparing Mass Effect to Star Wars...

 

And here I thought I was comparing Star Wars to 2001

[CronoDragoon]

And who knows about the Magic Space Elevator?  Who knows the spot where Shepard is currently.  The place where "no organic has ever been"?

 

If only this were, like, a sci-fi story where you could have a device to scan for life in the immediate vicinity.

 

And here I thought I was comparing Star Wars to 2001

 

So you aren't comparing Mass Effect to Star Wars?

[Iakus]

If only this were, like, a sci-fi story where you could have a device to scan for life in the immediate vicinity.

 

Wait, the Magic Space Elevator is alive? 

 

 

 

So you aren't comparing Mass Effect to Star Wars?

 

I was comparing two movies which while they were part of the same broad genre. were thematically different:  a swashbuckling space adventure and a cerebral arthouse film.  One ending doesn't match with the other.  Dave Bowman didn't have a lightsaber and Force Powers, for one thing.

 

By the same token, ME3 bolted on an ending that was not appropriate for the trilogy.  And worse, forced it on everyone regardless of choice and play style.

[CronoDragoon]

Wait, the Magic Space Elevator is alive? 

 

Not sure if serious.

 

I was comparing two movies which while they were part of the same broad genre. were thematically different:  a swashbuckling space adventure and a cerebral arthouse film.  One ending doesn't match with the other.  Dave Bowman didn't have a lightsaber and Force Powers, for one thing.

 

By the same token, ME3 bolted on an ending that was not appropriate for the trilogy.  And worse, forced it on everyone regardless of choice and play style.

 

So you were.

[Iakus]

Not sure if serious.

 

 

Assuming they can discover Shepard's location with this hypothetical scanner, how do you think they're going to reach him?

[Marauderrr]

I don't get why people say that the breath scene is a clear sign that Shepard survived.

Corpses have been known to take a breath. Given the massive injuries Shepard took before walking toward an exploding tube, then it is highly possible that it was a last gasp, a final breath.

It's just as easy to 'speculate' from the breath scene that Shepard is certainly dead.

I don't believe it is...more likely it was thrown in at the last minute to placate the masses that wanted Shep to survive, but cannon will be that he/she will not. Otherwise they would have used a scene like the ending to me1...why not given that this is SUPPOSEDLY the end to shep's story arc? Why not end on a high note if this is indeed the end of shep's story? But no... all outcomes are the same for shep...the character is removed from their universe in some form or another.

 

If they do indeed require you to import your saves to menext then the possibility is indeed there, It would be cool if they had shep in a cameo of sorts of you picked destroy..maybe in a wheelchair or walking with a cane with their LI in tow, assisting a crppled shep.

 

But I really doubt this will be the case.

 

"He's dead Jim!"

[AlanC9]

I don't believe it is...more likely it was thrown in at the last minute to placate the masses that wanted Shep to survive,

Not last-minute. Shepard's survival is in the leaked script outline, back when Javik was in the main game, either the VS or Liara died on Thessia, and so forth. This was a settled point well before the final script was written.

[Iakus]

Not last-minute. Shepard's survival is in the leaked script outline, back when Javik was in the main game, either the VS or Liara died on Thessia, and so forth. This was a settled point well before the final script was written.

 

The why was it described as a "ray of hope" rather than "Shepard survives?"

 

Why has Bioware never refuted the "could be his last breath"?

 

For something that's supposed to be clear, they are being remarkably vague about it, both in and out of game.

[AlanC9]

Beats me. I'm just telling you what the outline actually says and when it said it, not what people said about the script many months later.

I suppose this is where someone says that Bio decided to kill Shepard after the outline only to then go back on that decision, or some such .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

2001 A Space Oddysies (mispelled on purpose) ending was really good on good drugs. It was about the only way it made any sense. It felt tacked onto the rest of the movie. Of course it was the late 1960s when everyone was doing drugs and all those colors.... 

 

Maybe that's the meaning behind the ME3 ending? All those colors.... It had no meaning... you were supposed to be on drugs.

[Marauderrr]

2001 A Space Oddysies (mispelled on purpose) ending was really good on good drugs. It was about the only way it made any sense. It felt tacked onto the rest of the movie. Of course it was the late 1960s when everyone was doing drugs and all those colors.... 

 

Maybe that's the meaning behind the ME3 ending? All those colors.... It had no meaning... you were supposed to be on drugs.

No no...you NEED to be on drugs after the ending.... well at least I did,

 

or do..

[AlanC9]

2001 A Space Oddysies (mispelled on purpose) ending was really good on good drugs. It was about the only way it made any sense. It felt tacked onto the rest of the movie. Of course it was the late 1960s when everyone was doing drugs and all those colors.... 

 

Maybe that's the meaning behind the ME3 ending? All those colors.... It had no meaning... you were supposed to be on drugs.

 

It was supposed to be beyond human comprehension, yep. One of the early drafts has a line about dropping an australopithecus into Times Square. He would be utterly incapable of interpreting what he was seeing.

[KaiserShep]

I don't believe it is...more likely it was thrown in at the last minute to placate the masses that wanted Shep to survive, but cannon will be that he/she will not.

 

There's no point to showing a character clearly being alive if the intention is simply to kill the protagonist outright, especially when this outcome varies for the same decision so that this scene never happens at all. What they will decide as canon may not matter, depending on the time frame of the next game. If it's far enough into the future to exceed a human lifetime, then it's pretty much irrelevant at that point.

[CronoDragoon]

Assuming they can discover Shepard's location with this hypothetical scanner, how do you think they're going to reach him?

 

Why wouldn't they be able to reach him? 

[KaiserShep]

Shepard is laying under a giant mass effect field between the Crucible and the center of the Citadel. A narcoleptic vorcha at the controls of a shuttle could spot this.