1483 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

The Leviathan turd does not specifically say Shepard will die. It says all synthetics will be targeted even Shepard is partly synthetic which does not mean he/she will die.

[wolfhowwl]

You're still not explaining how "This pipsqueak says the Crucible will target my cybernetics" translates into "I want to blow myself up now, even though four minutes ago I was still determined to survive."

 

Even if you knew you would die when your cybernetic implants failed,  wouldn't you still want to stick around long enough to see the Crucible fire? It's bound to be a hell of a show.

[AlanC9]

He has every reason to lie. Maybe he, you know, wants to reapers to keep on going. 
Seriously, he tells Shepard to either jump into a beam of energy, grab onto an electrical conduit, or shoot a tube that may disable the crucible.

Except, of course, that shooting the tube doesn't disable the Crucible.

[DeinonSlayer]

The point at hand is that 'your Shepard' still chooses to do something that is likely to kill him. Regardless of how close he stands to the tube. The Catalyst says he will die.

Choosing to self-sacrifice.

As I recall, the derp-march into the explosion occurs in a cutscene, outside player control.

"Choosing," indeed.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Except, of course, that shooting the tube doesn't disable the Crucible.

 

Shepard doesn't really have a way of knowing that. Plus, the expected result of shooting what appears to be a fuel line is that it results in an either an explosion or a disabling of whatever machine it is powering.

[von uber]

The problem with this 'shepard must trust the catalyst' is that boiware didn't give us the option of asking some fairly fundamental questions, like:

1) if this is your home have you been observing us all this time?
2) if not what woke you?
3) if yes why didn't you just turn on the relay?
4) why do you look like that damn kid I saw for about 2 minutes months ago?
5) who exactly built this decision chamber?
6) how does synthesis work?
7) how come I can magically control the reapers but tim couldn't?
8) no, really, this synthesis thing
9) lucky I fell exactly on that magic lift wasn't it! What if I had been 1m to the side?
10) why exactly should I trust you, my mortal enemy?
11) I mean green space magic?
12) if you control the reapers as an act of good faith can you stop them killing everything for a second given 'your solution has failed'?
13) so the reapers aren't individuals then? Or just shackled ai? Or what exactly?
14) so we basically turn everyone into husks and husks become self aware?
15) how does shooting a tube make the thing fire?
16) is everybody on the citadel dead?
17) if you are just an a.i. can't we just get edi to upload a virus? Where's your power supply coming from? Can't we just turn that off?
18) you want me to electrocute myself?
19) no, seriously now, it's all sunshine and rainbows if I forcibly turn everyone into reaper hybrids?

And so on.

[KaiserShep]

12) if you control the reapers as an act of good faith can you stop them killing everything for a second given 'your solution has failed'?

 

You know, this actually would have been nice. I'm reminded of Neo's encounter with the Deus Ex Machina in The Matrix Revolutions, and when Neo made a deal with the machine to defeat Smith and stop his spread through the matrix, it halted the sentinel attack on Zion until the job was done, whereas the Catalyst, who supposedly controls the reapers, leaves them to continue their assault on everything, effectively ensuring that while Shepard is stuck dicking about with this holographic nuisance, thousands of people are still being killed left and right. When it gave the option to kill, I would have loved for an interrupt that let me forgo the rest of this nonsense and get it over with to stop the reaper death rays.

 

"You have the power to destroy us. But be war*renegade interrupt*"

 

"Good. I can end this."

 

"But...don't you want to hear the rest of what I have to sa*renegade interrupt*

 

"F*ck off" *starts firing at tube*

 

"Dammit all to hell. Why didn't I give the option of synthesis fi *derezzes*

[Bob from Accounting]

The problem with this 'shepard must trust the catalyst' is that boiware didn't give us the option of asking some fairly fundamental questions, like:
 

And here I am giving you the option to do something besides trust him.

 

What do you do?

[ImaginaryMatter]

The problem with this 'shepard must trust the catalyst' is that boiware didn't give us the option of asking some fairly fundamental questions, like:

1) if this is your home have you been observing us all this time?
2) if not what woke you?
3) if yes why didn't you just turn on the relay?
4) why do you look like that damn kid I saw for about 2 minutes months ago?
5) who exactly built this decision chamber?
6) how does synthesis work?
7) how come I can magically control the reapers but tim couldn't?
8) no, really, this synthesis thing
9) lucky I fell exactly on that magic lift wasn't it! What if I had been 1m to the side?
10) why exactly should I trust you, my mortal enemy?
11) I mean green space magic?
12) if you control the reapers as an act of good faith can you stop them killing everything for a second given 'your solution has failed'?
13) so the reapers aren't individuals then? Or just shackled ai? Or what exactly?
14) so we basically turn everyone into husks and husks become self aware?
15) how does shooting a tube make the thing fire?
16) is everybody on the citadel dead?
17) if you are just an a.i. can't we just get edi to upload a virus? Where's your power supply coming from? Can't we just turn that off?
18) you want me to electrocute myself?
19) no, seriously now, it's all sunshine and rainbows if I forcibly turn everyone into reaper hybrids?

And so on.

 

Well apparently Casey Hudson, if I recall correctly, didn't believe any of that was necessary.

 

Which still always bothers me about the scene. Everything the Catalyst says is either revolutionary or unbelievable, yet the scene contains only a very small amount of interaction. This scene should have been one of the most dialogue intensive scenes in the game as Shepard is making the biggest decision ever in the history of the universe.

[Darks1d3]

You know, this actually would have been nice. I'm reminded of Neo's encounter with the Deus Ex Machina in The Matrix Revolutions, and when Neo made a deal with the machine to defeat Smith and stop his spread through the matrix, it halted the sentinel attack on Zion until the job was done, whereas the Catalyst, who supposedly controls the reapers, leaves them to continue their assault on everything, effectively ensuring that while Shepard is stuck dicking about with this holographic nuisance, thousands of people are still being killed left and right. When it gave the option to kill, I would have loved for an interrupt that let me forgo the rest of this nonsense and get it over with to stop the reaper death rays.

Not that I'm disagreeing with this sentiment, or that I'm sympathizing with the starbrat(little bastard), but to be fair, that may not be a viable option for the catalyst.

 

A random star-ship captain-"Admiral Hackett, the reapers have ceased all hostilities towards us. Orders?"

Hackett-"Shepard has found a way to disable the Reapers. All ships, this is our chance to blow these bastards to hell!"

[KaiserShep]

Yeah. I'm just glad I at least had the option of killing the damn thing, with the gun Mordin gave me at that.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The point at hand is that 'your Shepard' still chooses to do something that is likely to kill him. Regardless of how close he stands to the tube. The Catalyst says he will die.

 

Choosing to self-sacrifice.

 

I don't think Shepard is choosing to self-sacrifice. He's not given much of a choice. The 'heroic power' of the moment is killed because Shepard doesn't have the choice to walk away. It's no choice on choosing whether or not to die. It's just choosing what the death will amount to in consequences. He's got a choice on what knife he gets stabbed with. It's a death, but not a particularly heroic one. Nor does it need to be.

[von uber]

Much less dialogue than the tim encounter.
That really should have been the end, at the console. There's just no need for the catalyst; leave the reaper motivations as a mystery.
That could be your speculation.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And here I am giving you the option to do something besides trust him.

 

What do you do?

 

Not trusting his word, because I don't think we have the same perspective. Here you are twisting people's words to make yourself appear clever.

 

What do you do?

[DeinonSlayer]

You know, this actually would have been nice. I'm reminded of Neo's encounter with the Deus Ex Machina in The Matrix Revolutions, and when Neo made a deal with the machine to defeat Smith and stop his spread through the matrix, it halted the sentinel attack on Zion until the job was done, whereas the Catalyst, who supposedly controls the reapers, leaves them to continue their assault on everything, effectively ensuring that while Shepard is stuck dicking about with this holographic nuisance, thousands of people are still being killed left and right. When it gave the option to kill, I would have loved for an interrupt that let me forgo the rest of this nonsense and get it over with to stop the reaper death rays.

"You have the power to destroy us. But be war*renegade interrupt*"

"Good. I can end this."

"But...don't you want to hear the rest of what I have to sa*renegade interrupt*

"F*ck off" *starts firing at tube*

"Dammit all to hell. Why didn't I give the option of synthesis fi *derezzes*

"But think about the artistic integrityyyyyy..." *fizzle*

I like. I didn't care for the autodialogue "There has to be another way!" when told synthetics would be targeted indiscriminately (especially odd considering Shepard can flatly state the opinion that synthetics are not alive when it's being discussed in the mess hall - funny EDI has no reaction to that, after almost certainly hearing it). It'd have been nice if, after each option was outlined, we had an option to basically say "I'll do that." It was nice that the EC added the option to voice objections to the options, but it seems our alternative is ambivalence towards them (except, of course, for Synthesis).

[Bob from Accounting]

There's just no need for the catalyst; leave the reaper motivations as a mystery.
 

 

It's interesting to see how much certain people demand complex and 'grey' villains until it gets in the way of their happy ending. And then it's all dropped immediately, isn't it?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It's interesting to see how much certain people demand complex and 'grey' villains until it gets in the way of their happy ending. And then it's all dropped immediately, isn't it?

 

It's interesting to ascribe a point with not context to somebody else. You're doing such here. You want people to have the motivation you just made up, so that you can attack them for it, so that you can appear to be profoundly intellectual and clever and heroic.

[Bob from Accounting]

I'm just making a simple comment on undeniable facts. That people seem to want and demand grey and complex villains, but not with the Reapers. Just a comment on how very, very...fragile some of the ideas are here. How very delicate they are. Have to be handled very softly.

[Darks1d3]

I'm just making a simple comment on undeniable facts. That people seem to want and demand grey and complex villains, but not with the Reapers. Just a comment on how very, very...fragile some of the ideas are here. How very delicate they are. Have to be handled very softly.

 

Do you ever tire of hearing yourself talk David?

[Bob from Accounting]

I'm Bob. From Accounting. And like I said, I'm just making a simple comment on what I see. Surely you wouldn't deny that comments on this board are generally along the line of 'complex and grey villains are better villains, simple 'evil' villains are for children'?

 

Except of course, with the Reapers.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'm Bob. From Accounting. And like I said, I'm just making a simple comment on what I see. Surely you wouldn't deny that comments on this board are generally along the line of 'complex and grey villains are better villains, simple 'evil' villains are for children'?

 

Except of course, with the Reapers.

 

Yes, I do completely deny that this is the case. I understand fully that you're completely twisting (again) what people say (again). David. Who was banned and is now account hopping (again), which is against the rules and can be very easily proven via reference by comparing your statements on this profile to your old profile (again.)

 

In fact, you're ascribing the word 'villain' without context in terms of complex and grey. You're leaving out the possibility of a different possible word such as antagonist, and using a simple word without much ambiguity and applying other terms to it in a disingenuous juxtaposition of words, and (once again) ascribing it to other people and attacking the position that you invented to appear clever (again).

[ImaginaryMatter]

It's interesting to see how much certain people demand complex and 'grey' villains until it gets in the way of their happy ending. And then it's all dropped immediately, isn't it?

 

Do you tire of being such a tool? Good Catalyst you probably get off on the smell of your own farts.

 

Von Uber said nothing about disliking the Catalyst because it was a grey character. No context was provided at all, so instead of doing the mature thing and asking for it you made up a point and attacked him for it.

[Iakus]

It's interesting to see how much certain people demand complex and 'grey' villains until it gets in the way of their happy ending. And then it's all dropped immediately, isn't it?

 

The two are not connected.

 

At all.

[Nightwriter]

The two are not connected.

 

At all.

 

Shhh, if you did not like something in a game it has to be for the reasons your opponents invent and no others.

[MSandt]

The problem with this 'shepard must trust the catalyst' is that boiware didn't give us the option of asking some fairly fundamental questions, like:

1) if this is your home have you been observing us all this time?
2) if not what woke you?
3) if yes why didn't you just turn on the relay?
4) why do you look like that damn kid I saw for about 2 minutes months ago?
5) who exactly built this decision chamber?
6) how does synthesis work?
7) how come I can magically control the reapers but tim couldn't?
8) no, really, this synthesis thing
9) lucky I fell exactly on that magic lift wasn't it! What if I had been 1m to the side?
10) why exactly should I trust you, my mortal enemy?
11) I mean green space magic?
12) if you control the reapers as an act of good faith can you stop them killing everything for a second given 'your solution has failed'?
13) so the reapers aren't individuals then? Or just shackled ai? Or what exactly?
14) so we basically turn everyone into husks and husks become self aware?
15) how does shooting a tube make the thing fire?
16) is everybody on the citadel dead?
17) if you are just an a.i. can't we just get edi to upload a virus? Where's your power supply coming from? Can't we just turn that off?
18) you want me to electrocute myself?
19) no, seriously now, it's all sunshine and rainbows if I forcibly turn everyone into reaper hybrids?

And so on.

 

None of that is relevant at that point. Shepard is given a choice to end the war which is the freaking reason she got there in the first place. You really think she's gonna go all Comic Book Guy and ask those silly questions?