1483 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

And yet, every person but Wreav is doing exactly what they'd be doing otherwise. And considering Wreav's plan was a destructive war, I don't care about him. It's an enormous choice, but it's still only one choice. And if, by some blasphemous miracle, it prevented them from making wrong choices, what exactly is wrong with that. As for diversity, a cursory glance shows the various species still exist but are also fundamentally altered. They're transhuman, transkrogan, and transasari, but they aren't the same as each other.

[XXIceColdXX]

I still won't accept synth or control as options for my Shepard, would be out of character.

[AlanC9]

On that count, yes.  There is no problem.  Yet we have to enforce a "solution" anyway.

 

This is wrong.  It's pointless. It's bad storytelling.  It's railroading of the worst kind.

 

That's silly. Destroy isn't a solution, and Control is a punt.

[AlanC9]

I think it does both. It destroys diversity by transforming every sapient being in the galaxy into a cyborg. The species as we knew them prior to ME3 no longer exist post-Synthesis, they've all gone extinct and been replaced by cybernetic organisms. It also denies these people their free will by having this cybernetic future imposed on them by one man or woman and his new synthetic pal. Shepard and the Catalyst in effect, deny every space faring civilization its right to self-determination.

 

Wait a minute. Pre-synthesis all the organic species are already the same, to the extent that they're all organic. Post-synthesis they're only the same to the extent that they're all cyborgs now. The only diversity being destroyed is the organic/synthetic distinction.

 

I do agree about the self-determination part.

[Mordokai]

I think it does both. It destroys diversity by transforming every sapient being in the galaxy into a cyborg. The species as we knew them prior to ME3 no longer exist post-Synthesis, they've all gone extinct and been replaced by cybernetic organisms. It also denies these people their free will by having this cybernetic future imposed on them by one man or woman and his new synthetic pal. Shepard and the Catalyst in effect, deny every space faring civilization its right to self-determination.

 

I also take some issues how nobody seems to care we're suddenly BFFs with Reapers, where they were harvesting and doing unspeakable things to us moments before.

 

If Synthesis should be taken as presented, then it's the single most horrible thing that could happen to the galaxy at large. If it should not be taken as it was presented... why bother with it at all?

[Han Shot First]

Wait a minute. Pre-synthesis all the organic species are already the same, to the extent that they're all organic. Post-synthesis they're only the same to the extent that they're all cyborgs now. The only diversity being destroyed is the organic/synthetic distinction.

 

I do agree about the self-determination part.

 

 

Fair enough...I'll concede that point. 

[Han Shot First]

I also take some issues how nobody seems to care we're suddenly BFFs with Reapers, where they were harvesting and doing unspeakable things to us moments before.

 

If Synthesis should be taken as presented, then it's the single most horrible thing that could happen to the galaxy at large. If it should not be taken as it was presented... why bother with it at all?

 

Synthesis has other disturbing implications as well.

 

*If* the Reapers truly are the result of taking hundreds of thousands or millions of organic minds and transferring their consciousness into a star ship, and combining it with A.I. processes to form some sort of partially synthetic hive mind, then the process of creating Reapers is a form of slavery. It is arguably even far worse than the familiar forms of slavery in that it robs its victims of the control of even their own minds and identity. Synthesis then perpetuates this awful crime by allowing these abominations to continue to exist in their enslaved forms. Control has the same problem. The slaves remain slaves.

[Iakus]

That's silly. Destroy isn't a solution, and Control is a punt.

 

The Catalyst calls them all solutions.  Take up the argument with him.

 

Though to me it doesn't matter, because there is no problem

[Han Shot First]

 

 

Though to me it doesn't matter, because there is no problem

 

That is my biggest issue with the Catalyst. Thanks to the flawed programming of his creator(s), it is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Just as the extinction cycles were not needed to solve this imaginary problem, neither is Synthesis.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Objection: It neither destroys diversity nor free will. It is, however, a thematic disaster on that it suggests organics and synthetics are either fundamentally flawed or not alive without it. If we take it to its logical conclusion, we should feel no guilt in exterminating synthetics who can only ape true life.

 

That's why I never pick it. I just find it insulting towards the synthetic characters (also, understanding is gained by talking to people, not DNA). While I don't think it ruins diversity I think that the connotation does exist because the agent of this change is a new single DNA.

 

Legion: "Does this unit have a soul?"

 

Shepard: "Sorry Legion, no you don't, because life is restricted to microscopic helical patterns now."

[Farangbaa]

Apparantly I'm the only one here who considers the problem he postulates to be real. And not just in the MEU. I needed no convincing.

 

Which is probably why I happily choose Synthesis almost all the time, Control sometimes and I've only Destroyed once (in my 'lets do everything different'-game).

[Iakus]

Wait a minute. Pre-synthesis all the organic species are already the same, to the extent that they're all organic. Post-synthesis they're only the same to the extent that they're all cyborgs now. The only diversity being destroyed is the organic/synthetic distinction.

 

I do agree about the self-determination part.

 

Guess it's good they didn't go further than concept art to show the Stargazer was a blend of several different species, suggesting that all species were genetically compatible...

[ImaginaryMatter]

Apparantly I'm the only one here who considers the problem he postulates to be real. And not just in the MEU. I needed no convincing.

 

Which is probably why I happily choose Synthesis almost all the time, Control sometimes and I've only Destroyed once (in my 'lets do everything different'-game).

 

I wouldn't mind it if it was in another story. However, after ME1 the series leads you in a completely other direction. Namely that the gulf between organics and synthetics is more akin to racism and bigotry rather than some incomprehensible, meta-physical gulf.

 

This is the game after all that beats you over the head with how nice the Geth are and how peaceful everything would be if those nasty Organics weren't so callous and racist.

[CronoDragoon]

Apparantly I'm the only one here who considers the problem he postulates to be real. And not just in the MEU. I needed no convincing.

 

I think people recognize the problem is real, but they draw the line at the assertion that it's insoluble without Synthesis.

[Mcfly616]

I think people recognize the problem is real, but they draw the line at the assertion that it's insoluble without Synthesis.

not really. I mean, yeah the majority of BSN users hate on Synthesis. But the main argument I still see on every single thread about the Catalyst, is usually pertaining to how the Catalyst isn't trustworthy, that it's wrong about the organic/synthetic conflict or that it's flat-out lying etc etc...

[CronoDragoon]

not really. I mean, yeah the majority of BSN users hate on Synthesis. But the main argument I still see on every single thread about the Catalyst, is usually pertaining to how the Catalyst isn't trustworthy, that it's wrong about the organic/synthetic conflict or that it's flat-out lying etc etc...

 

But that's only an issue for them because they feel like they are being forced into solving the problem (which they aren't but that's a different discussion). If you could just destroy the Reapers with the Crucible I doubt anyone would care what the Catalyst has to say. They'd also be more likely to admit that organic/synthetic relations are an issue, and that Rannoch isn't the be-all end-all. But since they feel forced into a corner by the manner in which the ending unfolds, they resort to hyperbole such as "there is no organic/synthetic problem!" Well, sure there is. There's also an organic/organic problem, and we're in the middle of working on both.

[Mcfly616]

It's still an issue of theirs. You say it's because they don't like the collateral damage that Destroy causes...okay. But they still vehemently reject it's assertions.


It's fair to say, a good lot of them just hate the entire premise. They just wanted to blow **** up and walk away.

[Vigilant111]

But that's only an issue for them because they feel like they are being forced into solving the problem (which they aren't but that's a different discussion). If you could just destroy the Reapers with the Crucible I doubt anyone would care what the Catalyst has to say. They'd also be more likely to admit that organic/synthetic relations are an issue, and that Rannoch isn't the be-all end-all. But since they feel forced into a corner by the manner in which the ending unfolds, they resort to hyperbole such as "there is no organic/synthetic problem!" Well, sure there is. There's also an organic/organic problem, and we're in the middle of working on both.

The stance of denying the existence of "organic/synthetic" problem is not merely based on self-deception

 

The core of problem lies with organics' incessant need to assert political dominance, and as a natural response to that, sentient beings rebel for independence, regardless of respective backgrounds.  Thus, words such as organics, synthetics, creators and created serve as labels only

 

One day, new species are going to arise and challenge the synthesized super-beings if the former is subjugated by the latter

 

"All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again."

[KaiserShep]

It's fair to say, a good lot of them just hate the entire premise. They just wanted to blow **** up and walk away.

 

As one who likes to blow sh*t up and walk away, I'm pretty glad to have the option.

[Mcfly616]

As one who likes to blow sh*t up and walk away, I'm pretty glad to have the option.

that's my preferred option. But not because I despise the premise of the Catalyst/Organic-Synthetic conflict/Endings....

[KaiserShep]

I don't despise the premise, but I'll never be convinced that such a problem is something that requires a "cure" like Synthesis.

[Farangbaa]

I don't despise the premise, but I'll never be convinced that such a problem is something that requires a "cure" like Synthesis.

 

Pff, I'll take you one further:

 

We'll have achieved Synthesis long before this becomes a problem, possibly evading the problem altogether.

[voteDC]

The Protheans were winning in their war against the machines and the Reapers decided to harvest them anyway. Had they waited the Protheans could have won and solved the organic/synthetic conflict problem.

Geth were content to sit in their space and weren't an active threat to anyone, until Sovereign began using the Geth. The quarians were winning in ME3 until the Reapers gave the Geth an upgrade.

So you do have to wonder if they were telling the truth about the inevitable result of that conflict or if they are just using it as an excuse.

[KaiserShep]

I assume that its aim is to find harmony between the two domains of life. The Protheans winning the war against the synthetics of their cycle does not necessarily solve the problem, since that only means other synthetics can come along later and prove to be a bigger problem than anything they've faced before. That said, the reapers are quite the instigators. Who knows how things would have turned out with the geth if Sovereign didn't decide to troll the galaxy with the heretics.

[Mcfly616]

The Catalyst was trying to bring balance to The Force.