Maybe I'd have to revisit the scene. I never got the impression from the dialogue that she was supposed to have died.
I'm no fan of how Cerberus was railroaded, either, and I'm not even a mirimancer.
I agree with Dalya that the justification for the scene if Miri is alive is weaker, but I don't think it makes the scene irredeemable.
Wait, she says that "were close" even if she's alive?Literally the only thing that changes between Miranda-romanced and Miranda non-romanced is that Tali says, "It must be worse for you, you... were close."
I guess we're just getting hung up on the word "were."
Yeah "were close" regardless. And the whole scene gives off a vibe of toasting a deaparted, if worthy, adversary. So I prefer to skip it.Wait, she says that "were close" even if she's alive?
The only Shepard of mine who romanced Miranda was JayneShep. He broke up with her in 3 to try to patch things up with Ashley (failing spectacularly - "I hope the Reapers drag you to hell" spectacularly), and Miri died because of the breakup (which was absolute bullshit).
Maybe I'd have to revisit the scene. I never got the impression from the dialogue that she was supposed to have died.
I'm no fan of how Cerberus was railroaded, either, and I'm not even a mirimancer.
We Mirandamancers (though we do disagree on a great deal of things and have had conflict in the past) are a savvy lot. That's not to say that we're any better or whatever, but we tend to have among us an ability to view things a certain way, and we pick up on a sort of ideal that BW had in mind for Miranda in ME3. Prior to Citadel, we get the feeling Miranda wasn't supposed to survive on Horizon.
There's also how the tone post-Sanctuary feels. The game feels downbeat and sad at this point. Tali's conversation was something that slipped through the cracks I think. It's why I never go talk to her when she's drunk. As I also said, look at the Horizon scenes. The one where Miranda dies admittedly fits the tone a lot better, with the soundtrack (even though it was the ME2 love-theme and, as admitted by Sam Hulick, written specifically with Miranda in mind) being emotional and sad. The scene is an emotional one, whereas the one where she lives is rather empty (despite the fact that Shepard and Miranda tend to have a more detached relationship).
Wait, she says that "were close" even if she's alive?
Unless YouTube is lying to me. It would definitely annoy me, but I don't know if it'd annoy me to the point of killing Tali and her people.
As it is, my playthroughs are usually with Miranda non-romanced and alived, so it's never bothered me. Tali is just getting drunk because Miranda's family issues hit too close to home, and that's that. I'd probably just twist "were" to mean something not as final... i'm okay at that headcanon thing.
Wait, she says that "were close" even if she's alive?
The only Shepard of mine who romanced Miranda was JayneShep. He broke up with her in 3 to try to patch things up with Ashley (failing spectacularly - "I hope the Reapers drag you to hell" spectacularly), and Miri died because of the breakup (which was absolute bullshit).
You can simply skip Tali's recruitment mission in ME2 if you don't care about the geth. Tali is dead (no weird drunk scene in ME3) and your quarian children survive.
Unless YouTube is lying to me. It would definitely annoy me, but I don't know if it'd annoy me to the point of killing Tali and her people.
I don't think anyone here is killing Tali because of that scene.
Sure, I guess some people do it for that reason. Who do you kill, then?
Jack and Thane. And after ME3 if I ever replay the trilogy, I will never save Ashley on Virmire, not because of how she is in ME1, but because of her character in ME3. While before I still prefered saving Kaidan, I still had a save or two with Ashley.
I don't think anyone here is killing Tali because of that scene.
It sounded like jtav was.
Combination of that, feeling the story's better without peace, and a minor mechanical issue. It's not really personal to Tali per se.It sounded like jtav was.
Jack and Thane. And after ME3 if I ever replay the trilogy, I will never save Ashley on Virmire, not because of how she is in ME1, but because of her character in ME3. While before I still prefered saving Kaidan, I still had a save or two with Ashley.
I can understand Thane. And Jack's mission is interesting without her. Still, I've never been good at killing characters when I don't have to. I do it for certain playthroughs then delete the saves and forget they ever existed. Zazzerka's heart never stops bleeding.
Combination of that, feeling the story's better without peace, and a minor mechanical issue. It's not really personal to Tali per se.
Fair enough.
Replace everyone in Star Wars with Nicolas Cage.
-Nic Cage Picture-
That would improve every movie.
When it came to the geth/quarians, I felt completely unqualified to make a determination of their outcome, and so I flipped a coin instead. That way, there would be two parallel universe timelines resulting from my fate/luck test... one where the geth are destroyed and one where the quarians are. I obviously would only live in one timeline, myself, but the other player (or other "me" in this case) would play the game with the opposite outcome to my result. This means that both species would continue to live on... albeit in separate timelines. So as you can see, I didn't really commit genocide... I just split the species into two realities where they could find peace separately.
A bit off topic here, but I played a suicide mission run where I took 12 cards and assigned everyone one, then I shuffled them and whoever I chose would be the person Shepard chose for that task.
Somehow I completed the SM, but only Legion and Jacob survived.
Has "characters you've killed intentionally" ever been a thread before? I feel like I saw it back in 2012, but I can't remember.
Yeah, there's a thread around here somewhere with it.
I think the "downbeat and sad" mood was supposed to be an accumulation of everything that had happened at that point (including the forced gnashing of teeth over Thessia after not giving a shi* about any of the genocides we instigate). Isn't that where Garrus says they're pulling the fleet away from Palaven for the final push?
Anyway, yeah, I can see how the "were close" line would be an annoyance, but I gotta go with Zazzerka here. The exchange can easily be skipped.
Nah, a lot of the stuff we see at that point (and in interactions with others) make it seem like it's supposed to be an upsetting mood over Sanctuary and Miranda.
A bit off topic here, but I played a suicide mission run where I took 12 cards and assigned everyone one, then I shuffled them and whoever I chose would be the person Shepard chose for that task.
Somehow I completed the SM, but only Legion and Jacob survived.
I thought *I* had a lot of free time.
I can understand Thane. And Jack's mission is interesting without her. Still, I've never been good at killing characters when I don't have to. I do it for certain playthroughs then delete the saves and forget they ever existed. Zazzerka's heart never stops bleeding.
It is not just how ME3 is affected by their survival that makes me remove them, it also goes back to ME2. The root of the problem is simply the character themselves (or in Ashley's case, the new take on the character).
It is not just how ME3 is affected by their survival that makes me remove them, it also goes back to ME2. The root of the problem is simply the character themselves (or in Ashley's case, the new take on the character).
Alright, I can see how Thane dying during the SM could be poetic. Jack.. I dunno. You could definitely argue that a redemption death could be good for her, but I like throwing shockwaves around with her and then having her remember how we threw all those shockwaves around.
At least they give you the RP latitude to tell Joker Cerberus achieved its objectives on Sanctuary. I get the impression that's what you'd want to say. I'd have been similarly PO'ed if we were given no option to support the destruction of the dreadnought, but there's just enough RP latitude for that, too, even if it isn't a popular sentiment either.Nah, a lot of the stuff we see at that point (and in interactions with others) make it seem like it's supposed to be an upsetting mood over Sanctuary and Miranda.
At least they give you the RP latitude to tell Joker Cerberus achieved its objectives on Sanctuary. I get the impression that's what you'd want to say. I'd have been similarly PO'ed if we were given no option to support the destruction of the dreadnought, but there's just enough RP latitude for that, too, even if it isn't a popular sentiment either.
Yeah, but they do kind of make it contradictory: Shepard tells Hackett (damn you autodialogue) that the cost of Sanctuary was too high and that there was no moral justification for it. Then he tells Joker that Cerberus succeeded at their goal, and could justify it by telling himself that the people were going to die anyway. Not ideal by any means.
Alright, I can see how Thane dying during the SM could be poetic. Jack.. I dunno. You could definitely argue that a redemption death could be good for her, but I like throwing shockwaves around with her and then having her remember how we threw all those shockwaves around.
You are misunderstanding me.
With Ashley, even ignoring her ME3 character, I prefer to kill off during ME1. Her death provides a nice character arc by having her actions redeem and clear the Williams familiy name. Compare that to Kaidan's whose sacrifice does not carry a whole lot of weight. Ashley's terrible role in ME3 just makes me even more glad that my canon playthrough had Kaidan surviving (and makes me less interested in playing those where Ashley does make it through Virmire).
With Jack and Thane. I am not killing them because I think their deaths during ME2 is a better send-off or provides a better resolution to the character. I am killing them because these characters should never have been written in the first place. And removing them by lack of ship upgrades provides a clean method of doing so.
I hear you. I never bought the whole "disabled the dreadnought in good faith" thing either (gee, thanks, they're all still shooting at us. Are we supposed to pretend it'll stay disabled?), and autodialogue damns Thessia too.Yeah, but they do kind of make it contradictory: Shepard tells Hackett (damn you autodialogue) that the cost of Sanctuary was too high and that there was no moral justification for it. Then he tells Joker that Cerberus succeeded at their goal, and could justify it by telling himself that the people were going to die anyway. Not ideal by any means.
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