208 replies to this topic

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Side note: every time I fight a flesh golem I get a bad smell/taste in the back of my throat.

Does your TV have Smellovision?

[Ihatebadgames]

Just active imagination . Hate them flesh golem things. One monster BW got right in my point of view anyway.

This thread is about future tomorrows, so I hope we have something new to look at and CSI about.

[Dessalines]

Any word of how The Keep beta testing is going?

I ordered the picture book on Dragon Age Inquisition, but it there going to be hardcover guide book that is going to be release like with the previous games?

[Rosey]

Let me see if I can elaborate on my original statement. At the time I was frustrated and wanted to say something with out coming off as rude

 

I can, from a gamer's perspective grasp why folks who were so dedicated to the first game were disappointed in DA2. They were expecting DA2 to be grandiose, much the way DA:O/A was. Having expectations of how something you believe it should be usually ends up with disappointment. So it's not at all a shock to me personally that folks were less then impressed.

 

What bugs me about it, is that three years later people still say they dislike it, that it wasn't a good game, or that they are still disappointed. DA2 wasn't a bad game. Heck, it's not even a bad Bioware game. It just takes a different approach in it's story telling. Unlike DA:O/A, it's not a  "Hero saves the world and gets the girl" type of RPG. It's a "Sometimes no matter what you do, you can't save the day" story.

 

They're different kinds of story telling, so even if you put them side by side, you can't compare the two. If DA:O is an Apple, then DA2 is an Orange. They're both Fruit sitting in the same bowl (Or in this case, RPG's set in the same universe) but fundamentally they're different. And they're both good. When judging DA2, you ALSO have to remember that, Unlike DA:O/A, it's a RETELLING. A third party is telling us the story, and the player is filling in the holes. Which is again, fundamentally different then DA:O/A's approach.

 

Take the re-re-re-reused environments for example. Most of that was a consequence of having a shorter development time, yes. But you also have to take into account that because of the framed narrative, it allowed the developers to focus on other areas of the game. The backgrounds were less important because the characters in the "retelling" were within the same city limits for 7 years.

 

I love Origins. But to me it always felt cheep because just about every solution had a three sided choice system - two grey choices and one super happy save them all choice. And if you chose the super happy save them all option that was it. You were the hero. There was no backlash for going out of your way to save Conner AND his mother if you hadn't first cleared the mages tower. If you left and then cleared out the Mages Tower, then came back everything was still in stasis where you'd left it. What I always felt should have happened in that particular situation is if you leave - mages tower cleared or not - you lose the redcliff forces because demon-Connor loses his **** and kills everyone. Which forces the player to make a choice, stay - pick blood magic or death of Connor or death of Mother - and get your army, or leave to save Connor - lose your army - but save the child and mother.

 

Similarly with the Dailish Clan setting, you could talk down the big bad and everyone was happy. And while happy is good, because you're the HERO, in a setting like Dragon Age where choices are supposed to feel realistic, it ends up detracting from the overall setting. What should have happened is Kill the Dalish - Kill the Warewolves - or Chose neither and they kill each other and you lose the army. Being able to talk Zathrian down always felt to me like a disservice to his character. Who's going to let go of a grudge they held for 100+ years because some brand new face asked them to?

 

They removed the third "super happy save them all" option for DA2, because it doesn't fit in the universe they built. You don't get to save everyone. You make a choice based on the information you have, and face the consequences later. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't. and based on the fact that it's a framed narrative as opposed to an open ended one, the consequences end up being severe no matter what you chose. And that's okay.

 

In DA2 Hawke is an Anti-Hero. Thrust into a situation they didn't really want, they do their best, but ultimately the people around them make their own decisions. Hawke is trying to protect their family, and by extension the city they're residing in,  but because they're a person and not a magical sparkling god/ess, things don't go as planned. Sure Hawke might be super skilled in magic or in combat, but that can only stretch so far in a world full of other people. Hawke might be a hardass or really diplomatic. Hawke might be the most awkward bumbling idiot this side of Antiva. But ultimately they're just a person who got lucky, or in some cases really unlucky.

 

And personally I just really enjoyed that tilt to the story. it adds a touch of realism to a world full of Dragons and Fireballs. Especially because it's a second hand story.

 

If anything, the only truly bad part of DA2 is that it's named DA2. Because it's not a sequel. Sure there are familiar faces, and its set within the same world, but it's not a continuation of the Warden's story. It's a separate entity, with a different kind of narrative, where your previous choices only set the groundwork for the worldstate. I believe the original title was Dragon Age: Insurgence -- or something similar. Honestly I think the worst injustice to the DA franchise was not keeping that name. Which is why I'm so excited, so very glad, that they decided to give Inquisition it's own unique title.

[FeaturingDark]

In response to Rosey...

 

I actually would have liked and often did the idea that you had to make a choice.

it should have been elves or werewolves. In dragon age 2, the choice about Bethany/Carver was fantastic. it was very well done. The problem arose in the other choices.

 

instead of the Templars OR mages, both of the groups' leaders had to be killed. It made the choice irrelvant. Worse, the way the characters turned made your choice a total disgrace, especially with the Mages. 

 

IMO. if you chose mages, you should have had to defeat Meredith and her templars. She would have gone crazed and not listened to reason.

 

If you chose Templars, Orsino goes to blood magic. You have to kill him.

 

The DA2 version was the opposite of DAO.

 

Da:o is where you can save everyone. Da2 is where you can save no one.

[Rosey]

In response to Rosey...

 

I actually would have liked and often did the idea that you had to make a choice.

it should have been elves or werewolves. In dragon age 2, the choice about Bethany/Carver was fantastic. it was very well done. The problem arose in the other choices.

 

instead of the Templars OR mages, both of the groups' leaders had to be killed. It made the choice irrelvant. Worse, the way the characters turned made your choice a total disgrace, especially with the Mages. 

 

IMO. if you chose mages, you should have had to defeat Meredith and her templars. She would have gone crazed and not listened to reason.

 

If you chose Templars, Orsino goes to blood magic. You have to kill him.

 

The DA2 version was the opposite of DAO.

 

Da:o is where you can save everyone. Da2 is where you can save no one.

 

True. I also never said DA2 doesn't have it's faults, after all I just get really frustrated when all these years later people still go "I played it once, it was horrible!" or "omg its still so disappointing!" when I sit here going "...uh, it's really not as bad as people keep saying it was? I played Origins and DA2 and I really liked both??"

 

I did eventually play through as pro-templar, and the ending felt a lot more cohesive. Even with Meridith flipping her lid in the end, it was almost completely due to Merideth "tying up lose ends" in the pro-templar ending. It works. Where upon Orsino's losing-of-his-stuff in the Pro-Mage side sort of comes off as ridiculous. and THAT I honestly just chalk up to the BIG SUIT WEARING people going "No we need more epic boss fights!!11oneone" and the folks in the office being like <Looks at watch> "We're really short on time... Eh just reuse the Orsino boss battle."

 

Don't mind me, really I just think people hold to tightly to their original feelings of disappointment that it wasn't the sequel they were expecting, instead of letting the game stand on it's own.

[NessCraig]

why are we talking about DA 2 in here? There are places in this forum for this...

 

Lets focus on "tomorrow" in here.

[Ravenmyste]

 i wonder if da:I will actually have a new race that we meet like maybe  lizard people?

[Allan Schumacher]

This thread's purpose expired long ago.