1079 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Ahem no.

 

The Dales were entire neutral in the second blight, WOT confirmed it.

 

And that's assuming the player goes that route.

 

So not really helpful in either case you mentioned.

 

Well in the latter case that still means Dalish are useful if they can be used to help fight darkspawn and save Ferelden. They do have a treaty with the wardens after all and Duncan says that Dalish Wardens have always served with distinction.

 

As for the Second Blight, well the Tale of Iloren does have a lot of holes in it given that there were no clans and Keepers back then and they would have no reason to be in the Anderfels. It's possible it's an oversight on Bioware's part (it wouldn't be the only codex entry that seems to make no sense). But until we get official clarification my preferred explanation is that the elven author of the codex mistook the name of the Archdmeon and it's actually talking about the Fourth Blight.

[Master Warder Z_]

As for the Second Blight, well the Tale of Iloren does have a lot of holes in it given that there were no clans and Keepers back then and they would have no reason to be in the Anderfels. It's possible it's an oversight on Bioware's part (it wouldn't be the only codex entry that seems to make no sense). But until we get official clarification my preferred explanation is that the elven author of the codex mistook the name of the Archdmeon and it's actually talking about the Fourth Blight.

 

That would actually make more sense, but given the time period well, who knows?

 

Bioware hasn't clarified the issue and its unlikely every single lore inconstancy will be fixed.

[LobselVith8]

Them fighting a small incursion into their territory in a single battle doesn't confirm much beyond them engaging a single finger of the Horde once.

WOT made note of however their lack of action while the Blight was ravaging the world around them.

You know they actually bothered to to cover that bit despite you know, them limiting elven perspective or whatever.

And starting an argument? No merely pointing out incorrect information.

Iloren and his people fought the darkspawn in the Anderfels, not in the Dales. The Long Walk addresses not every elf went to the Dales after the demise of Shartan. There's also nothing in the history of Thedas that prohibits elven excursions outside the kingdom of the Dales.

You're also incorrect. WoT mentioned the Dales didn't help Orlais. "Elves in the Dales of nothing as darkspawn nearly destroy the nearby Orlesian city of Montsimmard." (page 64) WoT never states that Iloren and his people weren't fighting the darkspawn in the Anderfels at the time.

So far, you haven't corrected anything.

[Master Warder Z_]

Iloren and his people fought the darkspawn in the Anderfels, not in the Dales. The Long Walk addresses not every elf went to the Dales after the demise of Shartan. There's also nothing in the history of Thedas that prohibits elven excursions outside the kingdom of the Dales.

You're also incorrect. WoT mentioned the Dales didn't help Orlais. "Elves in the Dales of nothing as darkspawn nearly destroy the nearby Orlesian city of Montsimmard." (page 64) WoT never states that Iloren and his people weren't fighting the darkspawn in the Anderfels at the time.

So far, you haven't corrected anything.

 

Besides you? I never mentioned anything about the backwood skulkers being confined to their little shanty community, I also said the Dales were neutral the entire blight, as in the Kingdom, i didn't say the species 

 

Fighting the Darkspawn as i said one time while they were content to let it for the most part ravage Orlais to me doesn't indicate much. Oh they are random hero's! Why? They saved themselves from an Attack? Woo! (Assuming its even canon by now)

 

What good is fighting one random band in the Anderfels to the rest of the campaign?

 

So in fact? I do believe i have both been correct in this and proven my point on this.

[BlueMagitek]

Regardless of that, it was Orlais that the Grey Wardens made a pact with, not the Dales, which should suggest the magnitude of their perspective assistance.

[LobselVith8]

Besides you? I never mentioned anything about the backwood skulkers being confined to their little shanty community, I also said the Dales were neutral the entire blight, as in the Kingdom, i didn't say the species

Fighting the Darkspawn as i said one time while they were content to let it for the most part ravage Orlais to me doesn't indicate much. Oh they are random hero's! Why? They saved themselves from an Attack? Woo! (Assuming its even canon by now)

What good is fighting one random band in the Anderfels to the rest of the campaign?

So in fact? I do believe i have both been correct in this and proven my point on this.

The Dales didn't help Orlais, a conquering nation that neighbored their kingdom. That doesn't have anything to do with my point that the Dalish have proven their worth over and over again. You've proven nothing so far.

[BlueMagitek]

Was Orlais even a conquering nation at that point?  I believe that most of their conquests happened post 2nd Blight.

 

And, you know, letting your neighbors be eaten and raped by darkspawn is kind of objectively terrible, because you're just supplying an enemy that you'll need to fight later yourself.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Dales didn't help Orlais, a conquering nation that neighbored their kingdom. That doesn't have anything to do with my point that the Dalish have proven their worth over and over again. You've proven nothing so far.

 

Again and again in examples that don't exactly help their case.

 

Second Blight? One possible encounter that may or may not be canon, nothing beyond that.

 

Fifth Blight? May or may not have been used, Really helps their case here doesn't it?

 

 

Was Orlais even a conquering nation at that point?  I believe that most of their conquests happened post 2nd Blight.

 

And, you know, letting your neighbors be eaten and raped by darkspawn is kind of objectively terrible, because you're just supplying an enemy that you'll need to fight later yourself.

 

Apparently the Elves behind their walls were content to risk it.

[LobselVith8]

Was Orlais even a conquering nation at that point? I believe that most of their conquests happened post 2nd Blight.

And, you know, letting your neighbors be eaten and raped by darkspawn is kind of objectively terrible, because you're just supplying an enemy that you'll need to fight later yourself.

Orlais was created in a series of Exalted Marches, conquests intended by Drakon to establish an empire under the worship of the Maker. Emperor Drakon's issues with the neighboring Dales prevented the conquest of the Free Marches.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with what I was discussing. Nothing at all.

[Direwolf0294]

Well, I guess I won't be replaying the game multiple times as different races. The only race besides Qunari that interested me was elf, but not Dalish Elf. Dalish Elves are boring. City Elves are the interesting option.

[Lorien19]

Well, I guess I won't be replaying the game multiple times as different races. The only race besides Qunari that interested me was elf, but not Dalish Elf. Dalish Elves are boring. City Elves are the interesting option.

Then make an elf without tattoos and pretend your a city elf,we're not getting origin stories anyway to make such a big difference.

A Dalish elf in the human world, away from his clan will be treated the same way like any other elf...

[LobselVith8]

Again and again in examples that don't exactly help their case.

Second Blight? One possible encounter that may or may not be canon, nothing beyond that.

Fifth Blight? May or may not have been used, Really helps their case here doesn't it?

The examples addressed how the Dalish have contributed, which is also shown by the fact they signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens to aid against the Blight.

Iloren and his people fighting the darkspawn forces in the Anderfels and the Dalish aiding against the Fifth Blight (if The Warden petitions them for aid) demonstrates that the Dalish haven't simply been focused on their survival.

Even Merrill, one of the People, is willing to put her life on the line for the men, women, and children of the Circle of Kirkwall. Even when faced with execution. I don't see any point in vilifying all the Dalish.

Their plight remains, no matter what they do. Even when the Dalish aid in the battle against the hordes of the Archdemon, everything reverts back to the status quo. Much like the Circles of Magi aiding against hordes of darkspawn during the Blights and the Qunari during the New Exalted Marches, nothing changes.

Apparently the Elves behind their walls were content to risk it.

I'm not interested in delving into the Dales not helping an imperialistic empire that threatened them since Drakon's reign.

[Master Warder Z_]

Conjecture aside for possible world states, there have been no confirmed cases within the Canon as it stands now if the Dalish aiding any one beyond themselves.

 

That's my primary point here Lob. The fact they signed a treaty after letting Orlais burn doesn't overly impress me with their willingness to accept the responsibility of combating a possible Armageddon. 

 

And its something that i view as worth some thought, Head canonning aside; You have picked an odd faction to back with devotion.

[LobselVith8]

Conjecture aside for possible world states, there have been no confirmed cases within the Canon as it stands now if the Dalish aiding any one beyond themselves.

That's my primary point here Lob. The fact they signed a treaty after letting Orlais burn doesn't overly impress me with their willingness to accept the responsibility of combating a possible Armageddon.

And its something that i view as worth some thought, Head canonning aside; You have picked an odd faction to back with devotion.

I already pointed out that the scenario depends on The Warden petitioning the Dalish for aid. Their willingness to honor it isn't negated by The Warden betraying them to a werewolf massacre, either.

The Dalish didn't help their enemy, Orlais. The only group I would give any real credit to when it comes to taking the darkspawn seriously are the dwarves. Humans and elves alike are willing to ignore the threat while the dwarves constantly battle them every single day of their lives.

There's nothing odd about liking a group that has refused to surrender their religion, their heritage, and their people for a life of servitude.

[Master Warder Z_]

There's nothing odd about liking a group that has refused to surrender their religion, their heritage, and their people for a life of servitude.

 

There are many that would disagree with that assessment if it were directed to certain factions within our own reality, its applicable here as well considering how history has been presented thus far.

 

Even leaving out all the negativity, racism, Jingoism and propaganda perpetuated by them, you still have a faction that has a negative shine in the history books. I suppose ultimately its just personal taste.

[LobselVith8]

There are many that would disagree with that assessment if it were directed to certain factions within our own reality, its applicable here as well considering how history has been presented thus far.

Even leaving out all the negativity, racism, Jingoism and propaganda perpetuated by them, you still have a faction that has a negative shine in the history books. I suppose ultimately its just personal taste.

You can definitely condemn the humans and the elves for leaving it all up to the dwarves, most certainly. I give the dwarven people full credit for taking the threat posed by the darkspawn seriously.

Also, the negativity, racism, Andrastian Jingoism and religious propaganda perpetuated by the Chantry certainly bothers me.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I always thought the Dales ungrateful during the 2nd blight, they were freed from slavery & given land as their own but it seemed most Dalish would have happily watched humanity burn at the time rather then help.

[Master Warder Z_]

I always thought the Dales ungrateful during the 2nd blight, they were freed from slavery & given land as their own but it seemed most Dalish would have happily watched humanity burn at the time rather then help.

 

It's certainly hard to fault that given what WOT has said on it.

[LobselVith8]

I always thought the Dales ungrateful during the 2nd blight, they were freed from slavery & given land as their own but it seemed most Dalish would have happily watched humanity burn at the time rather then help.

Shartan and the elves fought alongside Andraste and the humans against the Imperium.

I don't think the Dales refusing to help their enemy demonstrates them as ungrateful, but historically speaking, the Grey Wardens often have to coax people into dealing with the Blight. It's a flaw with both humans and elves.

The dwarves are the only ones who are actively trying to do something about the darkspawn. They don't get enough credit for their tireless efforts.

[dragonflight288]

Shartan and the elves fought alongside Andraste and the humans against the Imperium.

I don't think the Dales refusing to help their enemy demonstrates them as ungrateful, but historically speaking, the Grey Wardens often have to coax people into dealing with the Blight. It's a flaw with both humans and elves.

The dwarves are the only ones who are actively trying to do something about the darkspawn. They don't get enough credit for their tireless efforts.

 

And don't you surfacers forget it! 

 

Be grateful. Lest we go extinct without your aid and then you can take the darkspawn seriously on your own. Without an archdemon to slay and force them back underground. 

 

lol. Nice to see some appreciation though. You are an honorable topsider. I bequeath you his sword. And it's a good sword too. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Good, I didn't want my My Elf PC to be stuck with annoying city folks who would try to oppress him left and right.

[The Elder King]

@dragonfligh288: It's not our fault if for centuries you didn't allow a huge number of your men to join the army because of your traditions, dwarf. Thankfully my (not) good friend Bhelen decided it was time to use a bit of brain.
Though I agree that we surfacers should care more about your plight.

[Xilizhra]

It's a long shot, but I still hope that the Veil tears kill so many humans that the elven population will be significantly closer to numerical parity with them.

[The Elder King]

It's a long shot, but I still hope that the Veil tears kill so many humans that the elven population will be significantly closer to numerical parity with them.

I think I can say that it's practically impossible, expecially because he's based on the idea that no elves will die during the Veil tears.

[Xilizhra]

I think I can say that it's practically impossible, expecially because he's based on the idea that no elves will die during the Veil tears.

It is a long shot, regrettably. But bringing back the elves as a power significant enough to rival the humans will be a lot trickier otherwise.