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[Grieving Natashina]

Think about it.  All of the help we got as Wardens came with some big catches:

 

Dwarves--Political upheaval needed to be settled before they could send out help.  Needed a King after all.

 

Redcliffe--Yeah, Connor wasn't feeling like himself and the Arl was indisposed.

 

Mages--Uldred came down with a serious case of the crazies and was forcibly turning mages into abominations.

 

Elves--Werewolves and curses.  Bald elves holding grudges for far too long.

 

We can't give the elves too much crap for their behavior in Origins.  They were acting just like everyone else in that regard.  Admittedly, I'm still learning about the history of the Dalish, so I can't speak for other Blights.  However, to condemn the elves for the actions in the Fifth Blight is to condemn everyone we had to help in order to get them honor the treaty.

[LobselVith8]

Where is any evidence at all of that? And why wouldn't Burkel not like non-Andrastians? The ones he's been around most of his life (other Dwarves) run a horrific caste system that encourages infantcide, with the only means of mobility for the lower rung being prostitution, crime, or death in the Deep Roads? Besides, Surana has no say in that; he isn't a dwarf and only ever scratches the surface of what really goes on in the Deep Roads. Sorry, going from Alienage or Lothering to the Circle would be a godsend for any casteless.

The Warden can outright condemn his views on non-Andrastians following other faiths. You clearly see him in a much more positive light, but I'm not inclined to share it.

No, you have an issue with people adopting a religion you dislike. Burkel wasn't forcing anyone to convert, he was helping others and his flock were willingly leaving a horrific caste system. And then he was killed for it. But please, show me where Burkel held a knife to every duster he met and told them to convert or die.

I was addressing the Chantry of Andraste, which has forcibly converted people to it's religion, like the elves. I also don't have a problem with Alistair, Leliana, Wynne, and Anders being religiously Andrastian.

[Grieving Natashina]

Here's something I find amusing.

 

The Chantry's whole shtick is that they need to spread the Chant of Light to the four corners of Thedas in order to please the Maker enough to listen to mortals (read: humans according to most NPCs) and come back to them.  So keep spreading the Chant and the Maker will return!  Hurrah!

 

Only...the Chantry cut out the Chant of Shartan.  

 

How in blazes are they supposed to bring the Maker back if they cut out one of the parts chant that's supposed to hasten His return?  It doesn't make sense...

 

Or maybe they don't intend to.   Nothing like the chance of your god coming back and possibly tell you that you've been doing it wrong, so might as well continue to get it wrong on purpose.  Then, you can tell everyone you're right and hold power without your pesky god coming in and telling you what to do.

 

I'm hoping as a Dalish Inquisitor, I can call out a Sister or Mother out for that little detail.  

 

Ugh.  The religious are fine, but anytime religion becomes an institution, that's when all good intents can corrode and become corrupt in the hands of powerful (wo)men.

[LobselVith8]

You mean the Darkspawn who were directly attacking them and the treaty they then refused to honor.

Please provide a retort that makes a modicum of sense, I implore you.

You use similarly absurd arguments all the time. I figured I'd see what the appeal was for you. Only, oddly enough, usually the single man you blame has been dead for several decades before the event takes place.

Providing an opinion that opposes yours isn't absurd.

Which they were under no obligation to do since the treaty was with the Mages.

I agree with you about that point, but the templars still needed The Warden to handle the crisis for them, just like the humans and the dwarves do.

[Sir JK]

Here's something I find amusing.

 

The Chantry's whole shtick is that they need to spread the Chant of Light to the four corners of Thedas in order to please the Maker enough to listen to mortals (read: humans according to most NPCs) and come back to them.  So keep spreading the Chant and the Maker will return!  Hurrah!

 

Only...the Chantry cut out the Chant of Shartan.  

 

How in blazes are they supposed to bring the Maker back if they cut out one of the parts chant that's supposed to hasten His return?  It doesn't make sense...

 

Or maybe they don't intend to.   Nothing like the chance of your god coming back and possibly tell you that you've been doing it wrong, so might as well continue to get it wrong on purpose.  Then, you can tell everyone you're right and hold power without your pesky god coming in and telling you what to do.

 

I'm hoping as a Dalish Inquisitor, I can call out a Sister or Mother out for that little detail.  

 

Ugh.  The religious are fine, but anytime religion becomes an institution, that's when all good intents can corrode and become corrupt in the hands of powerful (wo)men.

 

Politics has a way with using religion for it's own purposes.

 

Consider Petrice and Elthina here, they shared religion and both used it as justification for their actions but their politics is the opposites of one another. Which one of them represents the true "will" of the Chantry? Petrice, who argues active opposition to the Qunari? Or Elthina, which is the ranking representative in the region?

 

Same applies to the decision to remove the canticle of Shartan. We've never read it's contents nor heard a summary of what it teaches. The decision to remove it was political and happened around the time that thousand of elves were settled in human population centres. Was it for purely religious reasons (which would mean they don't actually consider his teachins relevant to orthodoxy... which warrants the question why they put it in in the first place) or was it because it could've served as a rallying cry for rebellion for these elves? Or something else entirely?

 

We don't know. But politics was involved, as it always will be.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'd like your post formally, but I'm out for the evening.  So I'll just say I mostly agree and I like your viewpoint.

 

I can show you exactly what the Canticle of Shartan said, at least according to information about Thedas that's been released.  It could be seen as a rallying cry for freedom.  I just confirmed that this was removed after the fall of the Dales:

 

Note: "Dissonant Verses" are ones struck from the canonical Chant.

 

source: http://dragonage.wik...of_Light_Verses

 

 

Shartan 10 

At Shartan's word, the sky

Grew black with arrows.

At Our Lady's, ten thousand swords

Rang from their sheaths,

A great hymn rose over Valarian Fields gladly proclaiming:

Those who had been slaves were now free.

 

-Shartan 10:1, Dissonant Verse

 

 

 

There is a few other Dissonant Verses, but that's Shartan's.  

[Eveangaline]

I might have liked a choice but I don't really have a problem with having to be Dalish.

[Grieving Natashina]

I might have liked a choice but I don't really have a problem with having to be Dalish.

I don't mind being Dalish, since I liked them in Origins.  I'm a little more unhappy that I can't be casteless as a dwarf, but oh well.  

[Lorien19]

I don't mind being Dalish, since I liked them in Origins.  I'm a little more unhappy that I can't be casteless as a dwarf, but oh well.  

 Oh I loved the Castless dwarf origin!Playing as a castless dwarf who returns to Orzammar as a hero is one of the most rewarding playthroughs rp-wise in my opinion..

[Eveangaline]

I don't mind being Dalish, since I liked them in Origins.  I'm a little more unhappy that I can't be casteless as a dwarf, but oh well.  

Wait, we can't be casteless?

 

Well crap now I'm sad

[Divine Justinia V]

 Oh I loved the Castless dwarf origin!Playing as a castless dwarf who returns to Orzammar as a hero is one of the most rewarding playthroughs rp-wise in my opinion..

 

See, that sounds amazing.. but I just can't bring myself to play as a dwarf

[Grieving Natashina]

Wait, we can't be casteless?

 

Well crap now I'm sad

Yeah, I was kind of bummed too.  On the plus side, if you do play a dwarf, you'll have the surname Cadash, which helps make up for it.  It does make me wonder why no casteless for Inquisition.  

[Grieving Natashina]

See, that sounds amazing.. but I just can't bring myself to play as a dwarf

My first completed game was with a casteless dwarf.  Her rags-to-riches tale was what finally got me hooked on DA after a few false starts.  

[Divine Justinia V]

My first completed game was with a casteless dwarf.  Her rags-to-riches tale was what finally got me hooked on DA after a few false starts.  

 

Mine was Surana, and I remember when I first got it and I entered the Harrowing (I had no idea about BioWare preDA:O) I was like 'ughh I'm not gonna like this'

 

fortunately the game isn't filled with Fade levels

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, I was kind of bummed too.  On the plus side, if you do play a dwarf, you'll have the surname Cadash, which helps make up for it.  It does make me wonder why no casteless for Inquisition.  

 

I can only assume that being on the lower rung of society may make you less of a candidate for the role. With the Wardens, they may scrape the bottom of the barrel to replenish their numbers, but I'm not sure that the Inquisition would be as open to that sort of thing.

[Eveangaline]

Yeah, I was kind of bummed too.  On the plus side, if you do play a dwarf, you'll have the surname Cadash, which helps make up for it.  It does make me wonder why no casteless for Inquisition.  

Could be whatever event the inquisitor sees at the begining happens on the surface, so you have to be a surface elf? (but man, being related to shale is sweeeet)

[Grieving Natashina]

One thing that frustrates me a little about being a Dalish elf is that we really don't know much about them.  I felt like I know far more about the Dwarves thanks to the codex treasure trove that is Orzammar than the Dalish.  Maybe this will be our chance to learn more about their perspective.  I'm looking forward to it.  I'm torn between a dwarf or an elf as my Inquisitor as a result.  The Dalish are neat to me, and I have always liked wood elf type societies...but I let out a full blown fangirl squeal when I saw the last name Cadash.  My husband affectionately teased me for it, because it was rather loud. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Emperor-It's counter productive to assume a codex entry is false unless the entry itself is saying its a story. The codex entries are the game developers way of spreading out the history of Thedas to the players and does no good for them to merely through lies in there. As we hear that Aveline is a real person, then her story is at least as believable as the stories we've heard about the Blight's, or are you going to say someone made those up as well?

I am not saying that it didn't happen. I am saying that it MAY not have happened, or that even if it did happen, much of the story might be embelishment. It is a story tat is almost two centuries old and it depicts an nprecedented situation that has not ever been replicated. Aveline, if the story is mostly true, is the ONLY human ever to be raised by the Dalish. This of course also means that she is actually a terrible example to showcase Dalish tolerance, since her case is unique.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well that's not really a fair assumption either. All we can say is that she's the only example of a human raised by Dalish to go on to become famous enough to be remembered by history.

[The Elder King]

Where was it stated that the dwarf won't be a casteless?
I mean, it's heavily hinted by the single dwarf background having the surname 'Cadash', but I didn't know Bioware confirmed it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Aren't all surface Dwarves casteless? 

[The Elder King]

Aren't all surface Dwarves casteless?

Technically yes, but I personally refer to casteless in the case of dwarves that lived as such in Orzammar/Kal-Sharok and then left. If li Inquisitor is an exiled Noble/warrior/surfacer, I wouldn't cal him a casteless.
Though I have no clue what the Cadash inquisitor will be.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Here's something I find amusing.

 

The Chantry's whole shtick is that they need to spread the Chant of Light to the four corners of Thedas in order to please the Maker enough to listen to mortals (read: humans according to most NPCs) and come back to them.  So keep spreading the Chant and the Maker will return!  Hurrah!

 

Only...the Chantry cut out the Chant of Shartan.  

 

How in blazes are they supposed to bring the Maker back if they cut out one of the parts chant that's supposed to hasten His return?  It doesn't make sense...

 

Or maybe they don't intend to.   Nothing like the chance of your god coming back and possibly tell you that you've been doing it wrong, so might as well continue to get it wrong on purpose.  Then, you can tell everyone you're right and hold power without your pesky god coming in and telling you what to do.

 

I'm hoping as a Dalish Inquisitor, I can call out a Sister or Mother out for that little detail.  

 

Ugh.  The religious are fine, but anytime religion becomes an institution, that's when all good intents can corrode and become corrupt in the hands of powerful (wo)men.

 

 

Meh. Not a problem.
You could easily remove half of the Old Testament from the Bible and the religion/message would not be lost or changed in any meaningful way. Religious text in general have a lot of supplements/extras.

 

Also, you are taking the "spreading of the Chant" too literally. As in, everyone must read the exact same line of text. Instead of...you know...just calling out to the Maker?

 

And here's I thought it is the religious folk who are supposed to be hung up on details and too literal.

[Jambie]

See, that sounds amazing.. but I just can't bring myself to play as a dwarf

I was like this for a while, but once I did I never went back. The two dwarf origins are, in my opinion, the best. Especially the Noble.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Oh I loved the Castless dwarf origin!Playing as a castless dwarf who returns to Orzammar as a hero is one of the most rewarding playthroughs rp-wise in my opinion..

I wouldn't really call it returning as a hero, most of the citizens of Orzammar still see a castless warden as a "filthy brand" alot of the time.