1) What laws in Ferelden?
2) Under what circumstances?
3) The Chantry controls almost everything in Kirkwall. The Templar order is a part of the Chantry. The old Viscount was a puppet for Meredith, as many NPCs will attest to.
4) Does Merrill openly worship the Creators? Other than some remarks to Hawke, it doesn't look that way.
5) The City Guard doesn't care, largely because of Aveline. Good thing no Templars saw Marethari, but they avoid the slums Alienage.
6) The Templars still try to go out and arrest the Dalish for existing. Their law would have superseded secular law. Shoot, Aveline had to fight just to keep her position open.
Heh, and people say that mages should not be rulers. Fair enough I guess, but neither should Templars and the Chantry.
Name me one time outside of Wardens where the Chantry didn't have a final say so. Just one time, outside of the Grey Wardens, that we've seen in the games.
I ask for game examples because I haven't been able to get the books yet. Last minute bills came up, but I'll be rectifying that this weekend. So until I read the books, please don't give me any examples from them. It'll be meaningless until I can read the events for myself.
Please, some countries can't take a leak without a Chanter barking the Chant at them or a Templar accusing them of hiding their sister's boyfriend's nephew's brother's cousin's former roommate, that happened to be an apostate.
1) Abduction & assault -> City Elf Origin
2) In the middle of a wedding.
3) And yet, we have worshippers and militants of another religion (Qunari) openly converting elves, we have Dalish parked outside the city, and, have you considered that, just maybe, that was because of Meredith and not Elthina?
4) Wouldn't know. She still is a non-Andrastian living in a city which you claim is a theocracy.
5) I'm fairly certain the same thing happens if Aveline isn't Captain, so I'm not sure you can use that as a reason.
6) Harboring apostates & were previous hosts of a maleficar (Merrill). The Dalish were also not moving. Halla or no, they could have moved farther away from the settlement (which is how they typically avoid trouble).
I don't believe I've seen anyone advocating that the Divine rule over Thedas.
'k.
- Shale DLC: Mage lives outside of the Circle because of a favor from the King. Which is not something that the Chantry would appreciate.
- City Elf Origin : Abduction and kidnapping mid-wedding.
- Landsmeet: Get the Grand Cleric to denounce Loghain, you can still lose the Landsmeet (she does count for more points than anything but Anora, though. Like I said, the Chantry does have influence).
I don't recall that happening at all, I'm afraid.
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You seem to continually ignore the fact that the Dalish have oral and written history. Also, sending armed and armored drug addicts who think they have dominion over mages by divine right into sovereign territory can certainly be seen as an act of aggression.
It takes a royal boon from the Dwarven Hero of Ferelden for Ferelden to assist dwarven society in fighting the darkspawn.
Two humans encroach close to a Dalish camp, with Tamlen and the Dalish protagonist trying to find out if they mean their people any harm. Nothing was done to warrant a lynch mob trying to harm and kill an entire Dalish clan.
It's addressed that worship of the elven pantheon is forbidden: "We were not enslaved as we had been before, but our worship of the ancient gods was now forbidden. We were allowed to live among the humans only as second-class citizens who worshipped their Maker, forgetting once more the scraps of lore we had maintained through the centuries."
Also, according to the "Llomerryn Accords", Qunari converts have been killed for their religious views: "It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves. It's a fortunate mystery that the leaders in Kont-aar did not alert their allies in the Northern Passage, or we'd still be fighting the giants now."
Also, it addressed that entire towns of Qun converts have been killed: "As each year passed, the Chantry pushed further and further into the Qunari lines. Dealing with those of the local populace which had converted to the Qunari religion proved difficult, especially as some of these had lived under the qun now for generations, and the response by many armies was simply to exterminate all those who had converted. Officially the Chantry denies this, claiming most converts fled north into Rivain and Par Vollen, but the mass graves at Nocen Fields and Marnus Pell attest otherwise. Indeed, so many were slain at Marnus Pell that the Veil is said to be permanently sundered, the ruins still plagued by restless corpses to this day."
Considering that the Dalish claim that the Chantry started the war against the Dales, your phrasing could use some work. At this point, no player is in a position to know what happened, but it's interesting to note that the elves were forced to submit to human rule and convert, while the Dalish effectively became outlaws because they refused to surrender their mages or convert to the human religion.
Also, the mages are under the authority of the Chantry controlled Circles (with the exception of Grey Wardens); otherwise, they are apostates or maleficar, illegal mages according to Chantry law. Apostates are addressed any mage "who does not fall under the auspices of the Circle of Magi (and therefore the Chantry)." The apostate codex further reads: "No matter how a mage has become apostate, the Chantry treats them alike: Templars begin a systematic hunt to bring the apostate to justice. In almost all cases, "justice" is execution. If there is some overriding reason the mage should live, the Rite of Tranquility is employed instead. Whether we of the Circle of Magi believe this system fair is irrelevant: It is what it is."
Furthermore, interfering in with the actions of a templar is viewed as an offense against the Maker. It's also addressed (by Alistair) that even the nobility can't interfere with a templar's duty, or imprison a templar. I'm not certain why you're even disputing this. It's said that the issue that arose with the Magi Boon was that kingdoms don't have control over mages - the Chantry does.
Yes, the Dalish do have written history. But most of what we get is oral history. Which is horrible for accuracy. It might make a fine story though. And it's always fresh, changes every time!
So you're okay with missionaries being assaulted and their church not doing anything to ensure their safety? The Templar came after; so sayeth the Dalish.
And that means that it was never offered in the past? We know that Old Tevinter and the Dwarves had strong ties. As it is currently, we only know for certain that a conservative King of Orzammar denied aid when it was offered from a non-Warden.
Two humans are wandering the woods when two savage elves hold them at bow-point. The Dalish, being nomads, move around often enough, so it isn't like these two humans were spying. I realize it's like, the Dalish thing in Origins to greet all non-Dalish visitors terribly, but that wins them no points.
And yet, none of that is happening in the present. At worst, a Chantry member is rude to you after you deny a blessing she was offering. The Qunari recruit freely from the Alienage, and live in Kirkwall.
You're still going on about that? The Dalish are wrong. At absolute worst, Orlais started the conflict, not the Chantry. The war did not start out with an exalted march. The Alienages were created out of an attempt at mercy in a much more brutal age.
Yes, Circles do belong to the Chantry. But, as I've pointed out time and time again, nobility still get special perks and favors from it. Connor can see his father, a mage can live outside of the Circle. What I don't see are, outside of Kirkwall to an extent, Templar taking over sovereign lands and forces during an apostate hunt.
See above.
You mean the bandits? Yes, the bandits outside Lothering run away, while Mother Hannah assures an Amell Warden that a lynch mob won't try to kill him for being a mage.
Burkel cut off the conversation with my Surana Warden because my Warden condemned his view of non-Andrastians; you also seem to be forgetting that Burkel is speaking to the protagonist directly.
Also, my Warden has seen the benefits that the Andrastian faith has provided to the impoverished elves of the Alienage.
As for me, personally: giving the Chantry a foothold over the dwarves of Orzammar seemed like a grave mistake, especially after what happened to the Dales, so I was never incentivized to take a different course of action.
I didn't have a problem with Fenris finding comfort in the Andrastian faith, which was fairly peaceful.
Yes. And a better example would have been Wynne, instead of the grown mage who can simply leave the town to zombies.
Frankly, you probably went with "I'm not going to help spread your lies", so you started the hostility. He's perfectly civil. And he's speaking to the Warden, not you.
You do realize that the Alienage is a paradise compared to Dust Town, right?
I'm not sure how to handle this statement.
- The Chantry already has influence with Orzammar because of the Lyrium trade.
- You're so concerned with the possible politics that you're denying some of the worst off in Thedas (Tevinter blood slaves may have it worse) any sort of hope, change or belief that they aren't worthless pieces of rubble that will never be accepted by the Stone and be anything more than criminals, whores, or dead.
- Brother Burkel helps out the poor and casteless. If they come to him, he tries to help. While I agree with Xil that he should try and direct them to the surface, that would almost certainly be worse than the Chantry.
- The Dales denied missionaries & kicked them out. That's the complete opposite of letting them open up a Chantry in the Dales. That part of your statement just doesn't make sense.
You say that, but then I look at the above and frankly I'm not buying it.
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