1079 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

The Warden is told about the history of the Dalish from Sarel, who just lost his wife to werewolves. It's unfortunate that many don't even know that Sarel lost his wife recently, unless the protagonist is Dalish. It's also completely voluntarily to hear Sarel narrate what happened to the Dalish.

 

I don't see anything bloodthirsty about Tamlen and the Dalish protagonist being concerned about two humans close to their camp; the attitude of the protagonist is entirely in the hands of the player.

 

The Qunari presence in Kirkwall is very delicate, since the entire point is that the Viscount is looking to avoid doing anything that incites the Qunari into another war with the Andrastian kingdoms of Thedas.

 

The dwarves actually sell very little of the lyrium they produce to the surface, as per the codex on lyrium: "Despite its dangers, lyrium is the single most valuable mineral currently known. In the Tevinter Imperium, it has been known to command a higher price than diamond. The dwarves sell very little of the processed mineral to the surface, giving the greater portion of what they mine to their own smiths, who use it in the forging of all truly superior dwarven weapons and armor. What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle."

 

I am aware he lost his wife. That does not forgive how the Warden is treated (especially a City Elf Warden, call me an Uncle Tom again....) from the get go of finding the Dalish.  If he was too emotionally upset to tell the story, he should have offered to tell it after the werewolf problem.

 

Besides having them at weapon point?  There's kind of this rule, goes something like "don't draw a weapon unless you intend to use it".  That groups of Dalish range from normal nomadic people to bandits doesn't help things.

 

Be that as it may, there is an ancient law (which, I am so told, is still super important and relevant) that is not being enforced by the religious or the city.

 

The Dwarves are basically the diamond industry, then. 

[LobselVith8]

 

You can't use future information to justify present actions.  And that's only after Burkel is murdered, not after dwarves start being converted.

 

I wasn't. Future information was used to address why I didn't change my pattern in future runs with that specific Warden, including how mages don't find Orzammar to be a safe sanctuary as a consequence (per Dagna's research when she becomes a member of the Circle of Ferelden). Burkel cut off the conversation in my original run with my Surana Warden.

 

I'm rather fond of focusing on how certain characters would approach situations. My Surana Warden, for example, executed the Messenger and killed the Architect because he wouldn't deal with the darkspawn, while my apostate Champion was initially willing to work with Warden Janeka to control Corypheus to end the Blights. I'm really not into playing across subsequent games with the same character; I prefer them to be unique.

 

Because reasons.

 

I think the only elf we see convert to the Chantry is Fenris, who is befriended by Sebastian; they speak a lot about it. If anything, I always thought Fenris might head to Starkhaven with Sebastian, given his absence from Isabela's side (since the two had some sort of relationship if the Champion didn't romance either one of them). Sebastian even suggests that Fenris could lead one of his armies. And since the Inquisitor is heading to the Free Marches, the player might encounter both of them in Starkhaven. I'm curious how Sebastian and Fenris would react to a Dalish Inquisitor.

[Grieving Natashina]

I do but that doesn't make me ignore their failings or weakpoints.

 

Favoritism is something i engage myself, i won't lie.

 

But i don't raise the Templars to sainthood.

Z, I've read your posts.  You do try your best to make the Templars seem like a sainthood with a few bad apples in it.   That being said, you also begrudgingly admit when someone has a valid point about the Templars regarding any failing or corruption.  You've never defended Alrik, as an example.  

 

Edit: And anyone that thinks saints are ultra-pure righteous people that never do wrong, read up on Saint Mother Teresa.  She was an amazing woman, but had some very human faults.  

 

Edit #2: Lob, you still haven't answered my question about those lore sources.  I'd like to get my hands on it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Z, I've read your posts.  You do try your best to make the Templars seem like a sainthood with a few bad apples in it.   That being said, you also begrudgingly admit when someone has a valid point about the Templars regarding any failing or corruption.  You've never defended Alrik, as an example.  

 

Edit: And anyone that thinks saints are ultra-pure righteous people that never do wrong, read up on Saint Mother Teresa.  She was an amazing woman, but had some very human faults.  

 

Edit #2: Lob, you still haven't answered my question.

 

...I did just defend Alrik against being a possible rapist just the other day

[TK514]

I think the only elf we see convert to the Chantry is Fenris, who is befriended by Sebastian; they speak a lot about it. If anything, I always thought Fenris might head to Starkhaven with Sebastian, given his absence from Isabela's side (since the two had some sort of relationship if the Champion didn't romance either one of them). Sebastian even suggests that Fenris could lead one of his armies. And since the Inquisitor is heading to the Free Marches, the player might encounter both of them in Starkhaven. I'm curious how Sebastian and Fenris would react to a Dalish Inquisitor.

Did Fenris convert or was he always a member? I honestly don't recall the game saying either way, but I didn't use either Fenris or Sebastian with any regularity.

And of all the people we could run into, I would expect Fenris and Sebastian to be among those that would react the least. They did spend the better part of a decade hanging around with one, and having relatively peaceful interactions with a clan of them (until the end). The idea of a competent Dalish with influence should be considerably less alien to them than it would be to other people.

[Cainhurst Crow]

...I did just defend Alrik against being a possible rapist just the other day

You disgust me sir. That is...wow.

Like, there's being on the side of templars, all the way near the center here -->

 

And then there's being all the way over there -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> In supporting alrik in any way.

 

Honestly, you might as well have just given everyone a bullet for their guns and said "Fire away boys!"

[Grieving Natashina]

...I did just defend Alrik against being a possible rapist just the other day

....

 

Dude, you're not helping.  

 

I'm not touching that particular debate with a 30' pole.  So let's get back on topic here.  I'd rather not derail this further.

[Hellion Rex]

...I did just defend Alrik against being a possible rapist just the other day

O_______O

[Master Warder Z_]

....

 

Dude, you're not helping.  

 

I'm not touching that particular debate with a 30' pole.  So let's get back on topic here.  I'd rather not derail this further.

 

I'm just saying, I admit there are faults within the individuals of the organization but i support the organization as a whole and its Mandate over said individuals.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

You disgust me sir. That is...wow.

Like, there's being on the side of templars, all the way near the center here -->

 

And then there's being all the way over there -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> In supporting alrik in any way.

 

Honestly, you might as well have just given everyone a bullet for their guns and said "Fire away boys!"

 

No i just said that given Tranquil maintain Free will, if consent was given for intercourse it wouldn't be rape. 

 

If said person wanted to service the templar order in that fashion.

 

That was about the gist of it.

[Master Warder Z_]

O_______O

 

 Indeed.

[Shadow Fox]

Welp this escalated quickly.

[LobselVith8]

Did Fenris convert or was he always a member? I honestly don't recall the game saying either way, but I didn't use either Fenris or Sebastian with any regularity.

 

I was under the impression Fenris converted, given the slow buildup in the conversations between Sebastian and Fenris about him going to the local Chantry, and how it went from reluctance on Fenris' part to admit he was praying to the Maker to Sebastian explaining how there was a reason for all the bad things that he experienced under Danarius.

 

I think, if any two characters were to reunite, it would be Sebastian and Fenris. They seemed to be getting close (as friends and confidants).

 

And of all the people we could run into, I would expect Fenris and Sebastian to be among those that would react the least. They did spend the better part of a decade hanging around with one, and having relatively peaceful interactions with a clan of them (until the end). The idea of a competent Dalish with influence should be considerably less alien to them than it would be to other people.

 

I didn't mean in a negative way; Sebastian expresses that he doesn't see a problem with Fenris leading his army, so I don't think he would look down on the main character being an elf. I was thinking more about how they might contrast the Dalish protagonist with the members of the Sabrae clan, including Merrill. There's also the factor of the Dalish Inquisitor being a mage, and how it come into play with their reactions if Anders was spared.

[Master Warder Z_]

Stupid double post*

[Master Warder Z_]

Welp this escalated quickly.

 

Indeed.

[BlueMagitek]

 

 

 

I wasn't. Future information was used to address why I didn't change my pattern in future runs with that specific Warden, including how mages don't find Orzammar to be a safe sanctuary as a consequence (per Dagna's research when she becomes a member of the Circle of Ferelden). Burkel cut off the conversation in my original run with my Surana Warden.

 

 

I think the only elf we see convert to the Chantry is Fenris, who is befriended by Sebastian; they speak a lot about it. If anything, I always thought Fenris might head to Starkhaven with Sebastian, given his absence from Isabela's side (since the two had some sort of relationship if the Champion didn't romance either one of them). Sebastian even suggests that Fenris could lead one of his armies. And since the Inquisitor is heading to the Free Marches, the player might encounter both of them in Starkhaven. I'm curious how Sebastian and Fenris would react to a Dalish Inquisitor.

 

 

"Fourth, helping Burkel to build a Chantry leads to the Divine contemplating an Exalted March against Orzammar, so I don't see how aiding Burkel improves anything."
 

Most Alienage elves seem to be Andrastian; hence the Chantry Sister holding the wedding ceremony.  Fenris, having been a tevinter slave, probably wanted nothing to do with the Imperial Chantry given his views on mages.

[Sir JK]

Is anyone interested in discussing whether the Dalish protagonist might be able to follow The Way of Three Trees (The Vir Tanadhal) or The Way of Peace (The Vir Atish'an)? I'm quite curious how the latter would be possible with an elven Inquisitor building an army and fighting the creatures pouring out of the veil tears from the Beyond.

 

Sure, I'll bite.

 

The Dalish philosophies are interesting and I'm very curious to how they'll be portrayed and I am looking forward to both learn more about them and most importantly learn how different Dalish individuals interpret them differently.

 

Sadly, I don't think the PC will be the primary lense through which it's explored. NPCs will handle that. We will likely only at best be able to express agreement or disagreement to any one policy, with only slightly more context than a non-dalish (remember that this conversation will be neccessity be available to all pcs).

 

As for how a Dalish pc might be able to follow the Vir'Atishan... it depends... does it require absolute pacifism?

 

 

 

 

I wasn't. Future information was used to address why I didn't change my pattern in future runs with that specific Warden, including how mages don't find Orzammar to be a safe sanctuary as a consequence (per Dagna's research when she becomes a member of the Circle of Ferelden). Burkel cut off the conversation in my original run with my Surana Warden.

 

I'm rather fond of focusing on how certain characters would approach situations. My Surana Warden, for example, executed the Messenger and killed the Architect because he wouldn't deal with the darkspawn, while my apostate Champion was initially willing to work with Warden Janeka to control Corypheus to end the Blights. I'm really not into playing across subsequent games with the same character; I prefer them to be unique.

 

 

I think the only elf we see convert to the Chantry is Fenris, who is befriended by Sebastian; they speak a lot about it. If anything, I always thought Fenris might head to Starkhaven with Sebastian, given his absence from Isabela's side (since the two had some sort of relationship if the Champion didn't romance either one of them). Sebastian even suggests that Fenris could lead one of his armies. And since the Inquisitor is heading to the Free Marches, the player might encounter both of them in Starkhaven. I'm curious how Sebastian and Fenris would react to a Dalish Inquisitor.

 

 

I'm fairly certain Fenris was Andrastian even prior, just of the Imperial Chantry. He is a city elf after all.

 

As for how they'd react? That depends on the Dalish warden, now doesn't it? Curiosity initially in all cases though, I'd expect.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

From what little the codex says, the Path of Peace doesn't mean pacifism in general, it just means learning healing arts.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Indeed.

 

Gotta love Otto's effect on people.

[Grieving Natashina]

Gotta love Otto's effect on people.

Would you mind clarifying this statement in the Uneven thread?  I am curious about your viewpoint, but I don't want to get into it here.

[Inprea]

No i just said that given Tranquil maintain Free will, if consent was given for intercourse it wouldn't be rape. 

 

If said person wanted to service the templar order in that fashion.

 

That was about the gist of it.

 

Maintaining free will is not sufficient. Sexual interaction with someone that is mentally impared or have had their judgement altered is indeed rape. With the way you've been talking you seem the type to be alright with date rape drugs. That's rather troubling.

[Master Warder Z_]

Maintaining free will is not sufficient. Sexual interaction with someone that is mentally impared or have had their judgement altered is indeed rape. With the way you've been talking you seem the type to be alright with date rape drugs. That's rather troubling.

 

1. Vast assumptions of character randomly out of the blue isn't nice.

2. The Tranquil are not "mentally impaired" They maintain cognition enough to do complicated tasks, own businesses and conduct day to day operations along with maintaining themselves to the standard required. Add in the volition of them serving by choice and indeed you have a person who merely does not feel emotion, they are different, not inhuman.

 

  So i'd be the type to say if consent was given, it wasn't rape.

[LobselVith8]

\@Lob: Where did you learn some of the ins-and-outs of the Way of the Trees and such.  It looks interesting.

 

They are from codex entries, but they are available for anyone to peruse on the Dragon Age Wiki. I think the two paths might represent two possibilities on how the Dalish could built, whether it's the hunter (warrior or rogue) or the healer (mage). The Way of Peace interests me, given the focus on healing and nature, and the difficulty to strive on that path in such a dangerous world. It's more atypical than the usual fighter, and I think there would be some cool possibilities to how such a character would have to deal with building an army and having to battle antagonists.

 

For anyone interested in Sylaise, she has a codex entry (from Gisharel, the Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves):

 

"Sylaise the Hearthkeeper is seen as the sister of Andruil the Huntress. While Andruil loved to run with the creatures of the wild, Sylaise preferred to stay by her home-tree, occupying herself with gentle arts and song.

 

It is Sylaise who gave us fire and taught us how to use it. It is Sylaise who showed us how to heal with herbs and with magic, and how to ease the passage of infants into this world. And again, it is Sylaise who showed us how to spin the fibers of plants into thread and rope.

 

We owe much to Sylaise, and that is why we sing to her when we kindle the fires and when we put them out. That is why we sprinkle our aravels with Sylaise's fragrant tree-moss, and ask that she protect them and all within."

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm gonna be honest. From rereading the codex entries on The way of the Hunter and the Way of Peace and the section in World of Thedas, I don't think it's something that would be all that relevant to a Dalish Inquisitor. Based on the language of the entries, I don't think they are supposed to be metaphors for different Dalish philosophies on war and peace. They're just supposed to be instructions on actual hunting. Or medical training in the case of VirAtish'an.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Gotta love Otto's effect on people.

Would you mind clarifying this statement in the Uneven thread?  I am curious about your viewpoint, but I don't want to get into it here.

Sure.