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Discover The Dragon Age(New Official Videos and Screenshots)


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#351
Hrungr

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I agree with sentiments that it looks good...but not great. I too was a bit dismayed to see how few people were in the ball room, we will have to wait until the final product to see if bioware gives us a full world brimming with life or another wasteland devoid of life like in Da2. Environments are great, but if we end up in lifeless cities again it will be a shame.

 

Yeah, I'm also hoping we'll see bustling streets where appropriate. That said, in the gameplay video, the castle the Inquisitor takes over seemed to have enough people in it that I didn't consider it to be "vacant" feeling.



#352
Gold Dragon

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Pretty.

 

But pretty pictures do not a good game make.  But for what this trailer was meant for:  Good Job! :wub:



#353
Steppenwolf

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...they still keep calling everything pre-alpha when it is clearly not pre-alpha. I feel like this is a new way of tempering excitement while also building unwarranted excitement for games. 

 

"This game already looks amazing and it's pre-alpha?! No way! Pre-ordered!"



#354
DragonAgeLegend

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There looks to be a lot of forested areas but not much Nations other than Orlais. Where is Tevinter? Nevarra? Are we only playing in those areas or is that all they're showing us for now? 



#355
Nefario

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...they still keep calling everything pre-alpha when it is clearly not pre-alpha. I feel like this is a new way of tempering excitement while also building unwarranted excitement for games. 

 

"This game already looks amazing and it's pre-alpha?! No way! Pre-ordered!"

I know this has been said before, but I guess I'll say it again, just in case maybe it's listened to this time:
A game goes into alpha when it's feature complete. So, in DA;I's case, if the current build doesn't have the character creator (or customization systems or skill trees or whatever else) integrated, then it's a pre-alpha build.
How good it looks has nothing to do with what stage of development it's in.



#356
Savber100

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Is it just me but the some areas look really shallow. 

 

Look at the ballroom. It has at most 30 people within that massive room. Look at the the part when they travel through the city. It's utterly empty. 

 

I don't know... The environment looks pretty but it lacks life in certain areas. I really hope there's more ambience within the cities than what we're seeing in this trailer. 



#357
Ihatebadgames

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Dead bodies should have rats, mice, beetles and other bugs as they are food. Video looks great. :wub:



#358
Hrungr

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Scene 13:

 

DAI_13.jpg

 

Trolls on the BSN!

 

Interesting that it has elephant/batwing style ears and massive tusks. Can't wait to see what fighting one's like!

 

... Which makes me wonder what the darkspawn version of this wee critter would be like. :blink:

 

 

Scene 14:

 

DAI_14.jpg

 

Everything about this shot looks great - right down to the small details of the path and grass.


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#359
DragonAgeLegend

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Is it just me but the some areas look really shallow. 

 

Look at the ballroom. It has at most 30 people within that massive room. Look at the the part when they travel through the city. It's utterly empty. 

 

I don't know... The environment looks pretty but it lacks life in certain areas. I really hope there's more ambience within the cities than what we're seeing in this trailer. 

 

It's Pre-Alpha! Don't see the need to worry about that.   :)



#360
Allan Schumacher

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...they still keep calling everything pre-alpha when it is clearly not pre-alpha. I feel like this is a new way of tempering excitement while also building unwarranted excitement for games. 

 

"This game already looks amazing and it's pre-alpha?! No way! Pre-ordered!"

 

There's no real consistency on what alpha means.  I learned in school (University of Alberta, BSc Specialization in Computing Science) that alpha was when no new features are intended to go into the game.  Wikipedia defines alpha as when it is ready for testing (although I consider that outdated, since agile development involves testing from the first day, which would mean the entire project is effectively "alpha").  It also defines pre-alpha as:

 

Pre-alpha refers to all activities performed during the software project before testing. These activities can include requirements analysis, software design, software development, and unit testing. In typical open source development, there are several types of pre-alpha versions. Milestone versions include specific sets of functions and are released as soon as the functionality is complete.

 

I agree with everything except for the first sentence, because agile development specifically negates it - testing starts in earnest before lines of code are even written, starting with defining and reviewing feature acceptance criteria between developer and customer (in my work, usually a producer or designer is the customer) to make sure all parties are clear on what the feature request entails.  As the developer iterates on the feature, I provide white box testing to the system to ensure that it's in alignment with what the customer wants, and then provide QA verification that the task satisfies the specified acceptance criteria.  The task is considered complete when all parties agree.

 

 

This continues and eventually we create "alpha signoff" checklists.  I have fellow QA staffers now that are literally creating those lists for their respective scrum groups.  Some of them are done, depending on the feature, but for example Luke Barrett is creating the one for Combat with our scrum master/producer (I also work a lot with the combat team - usually the programmers).  They do this so we can agree that the features of the game have been implemented and are reasonably working.

 

We don't spend much time in "alpha" because we'll then transition to beta testing, with the features being feature complete and polish/bug testing being applied.  In super rare instances, new features get added/removed, but decisions like that are heavily triaged with the potential risk factors assessed.  They are literally approved/rejected by Mark Darrah at that point.  In fact, all bugs at this point tend to get approved by senior leads, ensuring that the team is getting the most benefit out of their effort (which means that something that can fix a lot of minor bugs can still be approved if it is done small enough).

 

 

The game is definitely still pre-alpha.  I know for a fact that we're actually waiting for a code drop from the frostbite time to help with rendering, so it's entirely possible that we'll still see incremental improvements in graphics (which is primarily what was shown off today with the environments).  Our goals are to hit alpha soon, enabling us to focus on stability and polish down the stretch leading up into release.  So yeah, in that sense it's "not as pre-alpha" as stuff we may show a year ago, and it's certainly closer to "almost done."  And we'll have an inclination to show levels that are the most done, so I wouldn't expect a world of difference between what you saw today and what will see at release, but things are still not fully locked in for a lot of things yet.


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#361
Steppenwolf

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I know this has been said before, but I guess I'll say it again, just in case maybe it's listened to this time:
A game goes into alpha when it's feature complete. So, in DA;I's case, if the current build doesn't have the character creator (or customization systems or skill trees or whatever else) integrated, then it's a pre-alpha build.
How good it looks has nothing to do with what stage of development it's in.

 

That's wrong. A game is in the alpha stage when key gameplay mechanics are in place and the game is playable. Character creation and customization are not key gameplay mechanics and we don't know that those features are not in place. The game has been fully playable for months, from start to finish. 



#362
Guest_Avejajed_*

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That's wrong. A game is in the alpha stage when key gameplay mechanics are in place and the game is playable. Character creation and customization are not key gameplay mechanics and we don't know that those features are not in place. The game has been fully playable for months, from start to finish. 

 

 

I had no idea you were employed by Bioware!?



#363
Steppenwolf

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There's no real consistency on what alpha means. 

 

The generally accepted definition is like I said above. I know quite a few game developers through one of my jobs(working for a popular gaming podcast) and key gameplay mechanics being in place is the norm for being in alpha.



#364
Allan Schumacher

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The generally accepted definition is like I said above. I know quite a few game developers through one of my jobs(working for a popular gaming podcast) and key gameplay mechanics being in place is the norm for being in alpha.

 

Sorry.  At this point all I can say is you have zero visibility on it.  It's pre-alpha.  We don't show off the levels that aren't finished yet, for example.

 

I'll defer to my professors, colleagues, internship mentors, and a host of other individuals over your supposition on what you think something is based on what we selectively decided to show off for a marketing video.  You don't even know what "key gameplay mechanics" even means unless you're actually a part of the production cycle for a particular project.

 

And some of the key rendering improvements we're looking for are still in the upcoming integration from Frostbite.  But if you feel you have an idea what the "key gameplay mechanics" are, as well as apply outdated, waterfall development methodology.  All "key gameplay mechanics" means is you have an unfalsifiable and unverifiable thing that you can artificially measure against what you think things must be like.  I mean, do graphics even factor in for "key gameplay features?"  What exactly are "key gameplay features?"

 

For example, being able to "proceed from the start of the game to the end of the game" such as in our christmas build is referred to by us as "narrative complete."  That means that as you proceed through the game, you'll get things like "TEMP: Cinematic here with the Inquisitor doing blahblahblah" with combat often being completed by us firing off an equivalent to "kill all hostiles" because a lot of the time the combat simply wasn't playing properly.  But in your imagination, it means "key gameplay mechanics" are complete.  When all it means is "the narrative is in place and plot mechanics are set up."  It says nothing about the state of combat, what the level up progression is like.  Those are all things that you fill in the blanks about, because you have zero visibility on those things when you hear "play the game from start to finish."

 

I literally told you what our internal measurement for alpha is.  And we're not there yet.  This isn't going to go anywhere and I'd strong encourage us to agree to disagree with respect to this, since we're simply not going to agree.


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#365
Nefario

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That's wrong. A game is in the alpha stage when key gameplay mechanics are in place and the game is playable. Character creation and customization are not key gameplay mechanics and we don't know that those features are not in place. The game has been fully playable for months, from start to finish. 

I'll admit that my understanding of the process and the labels attached to various stages is only wikipedia-level, but wikipedia is still a better source than "I know some guys".

http://en.wikipedia....ame_development

" Alpha and first playable are sometimes used to refer to a single milestone, however large projects require first playable before feature complete alpha."
"Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[151] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features."



#366
Allan Schumacher

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Sorry, but this tangent dies now because it's not going to go anywhere.  Future posts on it will possibly be removed.

 

Without visibility, you're only going to guess what "key gameplay mechanics means" and it's not like we're showing off the stuff that isn't done yet.


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#367
Steppenwolf

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I got my definitions of the stages of development from Randy Pitchford and Tim Schafer. I defer to them. I suppose BioWare can call the stages whatever they want. 



#368
Fredward

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It's... beautiful. :crying:



#369
Hrungr

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Scene 15:

 

DAI_15.jpg

 

Castle well.

 

I love the trees in the courtyard area. It reminds of a mod for Skyrim called (IIRC) "Improved Whiterun" where they added a whole bunch of trees and vegetation to the town and it completely transformed it into an absolute thing-o-beauty.

 

I wonder if the well was poisoned (like we had heard you can do to enemy outposts) and we're seeing the results here...

 

 

Scene 16:

 

DAI_16.jpg

 

Keep.

 

Not much to comment on in this scene other than the vegetation looks suitably dense and appropriately placed.



#370
Jean

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Not sure if I should feel weird that I am spazzing over: Trees! Branches! Leaves! Pretty flowers! Lilly pads! Dust! Dead people! Straw strewn across the ground?! 

 

VEGETATION

 

BUBBLY WATER

 

ALL THE THINGS.  :wub:  :wub:

 

All I will ask for now is a giant mushroom forest/cave.



#371
Savber100

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It's Pre-Alpha! Don't see the need to worry about that.   :)

We'll see but Bioware has always been weaker when it comes to creating a living, active environment with characters staying in static areas and environments that are seem super sterile. 

 

Hence my concern that while the environment looks beautiful, the world lacks... idk, ambience?  



#372
Allan Schumacher

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It's certain a valid concern.



#373
slimgrin

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Can pre-alpha mean, not nearly enough dynamic sh*t going on?

 

There's a lot of stuff just happening in other games, ambient AI and such. In Bioware games, this usually isn't the case.



#374
Savber100

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It's certain a valid concern.

 

I would say the forest environments with the creatures doing their own things is a great first step hence my concern is primarily about the major cities we will be exploring.  

 

If I may ask, IS Bioware taking steps to create worlds where individual AI are minding their own business or are they more or less static characters that stick to one primary location (e.g. shopkeepers will close shop when darkness falls or shopkeepers stick where they are 24/7)?

 

While not absolutely crucial, little details like this does wonder in terms of immersion. 

 

As people have kindly pointed out, this is pre-alpha so I'm not super concerned but it was a point I wanted to note. 



#375
laudable11

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Will there be a day and night cycle? Sorry if this question was already answered. I was at work.