143 réponses à ce sujet

[lyleoffmyspace]

So Bioware tried and arguably failed with their quest to do a different style of story with the critical panning of Dragon Age 2. Now it looks like to me they're going to return to the "old story", tried and tested, of Dragon Age Origins, Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect 1 and 3, from what I've heard.

 

In case you didn't know, Bioware stories commonly follow a simple structure:

1. Linear Introduction/Prologue (The Neverwinter Academy, The Endar Spire, Origin story, Eden Prime)

2. The game opens up a bit, plot points introduced (Neverwinter, Taris, Ostagar, The Citadel)

3. Open ended search for the macguffins aka the meat of the game (Words of Power, Star Maps, Building the warden army, search for Saren) often accompanied by a betrayal or cataclymic 2/3rds through.

4. The endgame (War in Neverwinter, Rakatan/Star Forge, Landsmeet/Redcliffe/Denerim, final planet/The Battle of the Citadel)

 

From what I've seen of the plot DA:Is main quest looks to be gaining allies for your inquisition to stop the hole in the fade and it will probably be in the same mould as those 4 games. Can't help but wish we would've got something a bit more dramatic. The epic personal quest of Baldur's Gate 2 or KOTOR2 for instance stand out as great example of games which have deviated from this point and tried to tell a more personal story. I get that Hawke's story was meant to be a bit of an experiment...but do we really have to get Origins story retold but as an inquisition and a tear in the fade instead of Darkspawn.

 

Hoping Bioware shake things up a little.

 

I think it being a retread of Origins with "Inquisitors" instead of "Grey Wardens" and "Demons" instead of "Darkspawn" would be bad.

[Knight of Dane]

No

[CybAnt1]

You know, my problem with DA2 wasn't really the story or the writing, not that it was a more personal story, not that Hawke wasn't an interesting character (even if yes he wasn't constantly "full of win"), my main problem was with mechanics for the game proper, which made him feel "alien" to me (even though I'm supposed to BE him), and other things relating to combat/etc. 

 

Anyway, that said, no, I think we're getting something different. This seems to be the first DA game to feature a quasi-open world (with mounts and destructible environments) and some quasi-strategy elements (the customizable keeps, the agents, a growing army, etc.) And yes, from that trailer, it sure seems clear to me that thanks to Frostbite that world will look beautiful. We've come a long way since Pong. 

 

All we know as to the narrative arc of the story, well, yes, we are again saving the world, it's epic in scale, but what we're saving it from is rips in the Veil. How our Inquisition can succeed in doing so, how its growing influence relates to other objectives, well, we don't know yet. So hold off assessing how close the plot structure is to previous game plots. Believe it or not, I'm keeping an open mind. 

[JeffZero]

I like the BioWare Epic Approach. I also like the BioWare Personal Approach. I like that some of their games follow one path and the rest follow the other. Because it works, but it's a broad stroke. The games are then responsible for filling in the painting with BioWare's successful aims of strong characterization and lore. They typically succeed there on both sides of the fence.

I'm down with another BEA. I'll be good with a return of the BPA when it occurs.

[Cloaking_Thane]

What are other styles? We have epic and personal, what are other styles out there for this type of genre, I'm genuinely curious. Game examples if you can find them to help me differentiate.

[lyleoffmyspace]

I like the BioWare Epic Approach. I also like the BioWare Personal Approach. I like that some of their games follow one path and the rest follow the other. Because it works, but it's a broad stroke. The games are then responsible for filling in the painting with BioWare's successful aims of strong characterization and lore. They typically succeed there on both sides of the fence.

I'm down with another BEA. I'll be good with a return of the BPA when it occurs.

 

I'd rather them not have an either/or BPA or BEA and shake it up with a combination of the two.

 

The Witcher 2 and KOTOR2 comfortably showed that you could have a personal story with an epic backdrop of grand politics and war.

 

And Bioware's masterpiece, BG2 was a highly personal story about getting your soul back, that eventually unfolded into a war for godhood between multiple factions of Drow, Elves, Giants, Dragons and Exiles.

 

Something like that would be welcomed again. The two don't have to be mutually exlcusive.

[JeffZero]

Never played any of those games, so I'll take your word on it. I know it can be done, but I've played most of the other BioWare titles outside of BG so I was rolling off of that.

[CybAnt1]

Alas, although ToB built upon a great gaming title (BG2), and did indeed move the personal story of the Bhaalspawn getting his soul back from Irenicus, into a larger arena of the struggle over claiming the throne of a dead god with other Bhaalspawn, it was weak as an expansion in some ways, and perhaps didn't end the narrative arc of BG1 to BG2 in the best way. Which was too bad. Although it did give you Sarevok as a new surprise companion, and the best kind of "party camp" (pocket dimension) I've seen in such a game. 

[MrMrPendragon]

Well I don't really know the plot of Inquisition, but i seriously hope it doesn't follow a formula like you said. I hope the whole gather allies for the Inquisition is not the "main" thing you do for the rest of the game, because come on! That sounds like a re-skinned Origins game.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Inquisitor suppose to investigate who or what is responsible for the veil tears? If that's the case then "investigating" is usually packed with suspense, especially if the matter to be investigated (veil tears) is kinda important enough that it might just trigger the end of the world or something.

So I really really hope "investigating" does not mean gather an army and have basically the whole plot laid out in the table (go to each area, do sub quest, repeat sequence but in a different area) and then just introduce a plot twist near the end to hide the fact that the bulk of the game followed a really simple structure.

Please, more drama, more suspense, more surprises. Events leading to other events and make the story progress. I don't want to know the whole bulk of the task before me (eg Go here, here, and here, battle demon, done)

[lyleoffmyspace]

Alas, although ToB built upon a great gaming title (BG2), and did indeed move the personal story of the Bhaalspawn getting his soul back from Irenicus, into a larger arena of the struggle over claiming the throne of a dead god with other Bhaalspawn, it was weak as an expansion in some ways, and perhaps didn't end the narrative arc of BG1 to BG2 in the best way. Which was too bad. Although it did give you Sarevok as a new surprise companion, and the best kind of "party camp" (pocket dimension) I've seen in such a game. 

Even BG2 went from a minor personal story into a large one.

 

At first you're just an unknown in a large nation, unknown to the authorities and searching for a little known wizard. By the end of the game you've got involved in a the plots of Dragons, Drow, a guild war in the City having been used by one of the sides, and the battle for the elven city against Irenicus forces as he tried to attain godhood.

 

ToB should've been it's own game though. Story and side quests were pretty minimal and it was sort of just an extended high level combat challenge.

[CybAnt1]

It is called an Inquisition, because part of it is indeed investigating & inquiring. What we DO know is the Quiz will not know who's responsible for the VTs, but is trying to find out. My guess is he won't find out until the very end of the game - yes, we do hope that's not ruined by omniscient narration, although in the spoiler-allowed sections it will eventually be revealed to the player base. 

 

Another part of it does seem to be "strategic," I can't figure out why we're building an army unless we need it to combat the armed forces protecting the Big Bad. So I would expect that.   I don't necessarily assume there will be exactly 4 and only 4 places to find allies - tho. Not in this big a world. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

So Bioware tried and arguably failed with their quest to do a different style of story with the critical panning of Dragon Age 2. Now it looks like to me they're going to return to the "old story", tried and tested, of Dragon Age Origins, Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect 1 and 3, from what I've heard.

 

In case you didn't know, Bioware stories commonly follow a simple structure:

1. Linear Introduction/Prologue (The Neverwinter Academy, The Endar Spire, Origin story, Eden Prime)

2. The game opens up a bit, plot points introduced (Neverwinter, Taris, Ostagar, The Citadel)

3. Open ended search for the macguffins aka the meat of the game (Words of Power, Star Maps, Building the warden army, search for Saren) often accompanied by a betrayal or cataclymic 2/3rds through.

4. The endgame (War in Neverwinter, Rakatan/Star Forge, Landsmeet/Redcliffe/Denerim, final planet/The Battle of the Citadel)

 

From what I've seen of the plot DA:Is main quest looks to be gaining allies for your inquisition to stop the hole in the fade and it will probably be in the same mould as those 4 games. Can't help but wish we would've got something a bit more dramatic. The epic personal quest of Baldur's Gate 2 or KOTOR2 for instance stand out as great example of games which have deviated from this point and tried to tell a more personal story. I get that Hawke's story was meant to be a bit of an experiment...but do we really have to get Origins story retold but as an inquisition and a tear in the fade instead of Darkspawn.

 

Hoping Bioware shake things up a little.

I'm hoping they revert to the format of their earliest RPG, Baldur's Gate, and not show us the main quest right out of the gate.  Even with the veil tear, I can see this approach working if there are a bunch of other things going on with no way to tell which is related to the veil tear, or the cause of the veil tear.  And if the veil tear itself isn't directly relevant to the main quest (perhaps it was an unintended consequence of a larger event), that would be even better.

 

But showing us our primary objective right out of the gate is something they've done basically ever since BG2, and I'd like to see then try something different.

[lyleoffmyspace]

I'm hoping they revert to the format of their earliest RPG, Baldur's Gate, and not show us the main quest right out of the gate.  Even with the veil tear, I can see this approach working if there are a bunch of other things going on with no way to tell which is related to the veil tear, or the cause of the veil tear.  And if the veil tear itself isn't directly relevant to the main quest (perhaps it was an unintended consequence of a larger event), that would be even better.

 

But showing us our primary objective right out of the gate is something they've done basically ever since BG2, and I'd like to see then try something different.

The unfolding of the conspiracy of the Iron Throne and discovering yours and Sarevok's true nature was amazing in BG1. I mean it makes for a hard play genuinely because you're slowly peeling back answers and not getting instant gratification and objectives, but the plot was well written and engaging despite being so slow moving.

[Rotward]

I stopped reading after you claimed that mass effect 3 was the same template as neverwinter. 

[Rainbow Wyvern]

If it is Origins part 2, "pre-order cancelled". I, personally, don't want a predictable story. Origins was predictable, except for maybe Loghain's betrayal.

But it most certainly won't be Origins 2 (thank the goddess). 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

If it is Origins part 2, "pre-order cancelled". I, personally, don't want a predictable story. Origins was predictable, except for maybe Loghain's betrayal.
But it most certainly won't be Origins 2 (thank the goddess).

Im surprised anyone would be surprised at loghains betrayal, was extremely obvious what he was gonna do.

[Raging_Pulse]

If I remember one of the Game Informer videos correctly, you won't be someone else's errand boy this time around. Instead, your main objective will be increasing your Inquisition's power and influence, which is done by exploring the world and completing the challenges you set by yourself. Once you reach certain power/influence threshold, the next chunk of the main story opens up, and so on.

[thats1evildude]

In case you didn't know, Bioware stories commonly follow a simple structure:

 

1. Linear Introduction/Prologue

2. The game opens up a bit, plot points introduced

3. Open ended search for the macguffins aka the meat of the game often accompanied by a betrayal or cataclymic 2/3rds through.

4. The endgame

 

The implication here being that MOST stories don't follow similar plot structures.

 

Seriously, you just summed up every Zelda game ever.

[Majestic Jazz]

So Bioware tried and arguably failed with their quest to do a different style of story with the critical panning of Dragon Age 2. Now it looks like to me they're going to return to the "old story", tried and tested, of Dragon Age Origins, Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect 1 and 3, from what I've heard.

 

In case you didn't know, Bioware stories commonly follow a simple structure:

1. Linear Introduction/Prologue (The Neverwinter Academy, The Endar Spire, Origin story, Eden Prime)

2. The game opens up a bit, plot points introduced (Neverwinter, Taris, Ostagar, The Citadel)

3. Open ended search for the macguffins aka the meat of the game (Words of Power, Star Maps, Building the warden army, search for Saren) often accompanied by a betrayal or cataclymic 2/3rds through.

4. The endgame (War in Neverwinter, Rakatan/Star Forge, Landsmeet/Redcliffe/Denerim, final planet/The Battle of the Citadel)

 

From what I've seen of the plot DA:Is main quest looks to be gaining allies for your inquisition to stop the hole in the fade and it will probably be in the same mould as those 4 games. Can't help but wish we would've got something a bit more dramatic. The epic personal quest of Baldur's Gate 2 or KOTOR2 for instance stand out as great example of games which have deviated from this point and tried to tell a more personal story. I get that Hawke's story was meant to be a bit of an experiment...but do we really have to get Origins story retold but as an inquisition and a tear in the fade instead of Darkspawn.

 

Hoping Bioware shake things up a little.

 

I think it being a retread of Origins with "Inquisitors" instead of "Grey Wardens" and "Demons" instead of "Darkspawn" would be bad.

I have homework to do so I did not have time to read through everyone's replies but I will reply to yours.

 

First off, I am one of the few who actually enjoys Dragon Age 2's approach to story telling. I am currently doing a replay of DA2 now as a Male Hawke in early Act 2. You are correct that nearly all Bioware RPG games follows the same path, see this chart:

 

http://politetimespl...liche-chart.png

 

It is to mention that Mass Effect 2 as well as Mass Effect 3 follows along the same path.

 

The sad thing is OP, Bioware HAS to do this because gamers are so closed minded, they only want the same thing over and over again (Call of Duty) and if something deviates from that path (Dragon Age 2), then they cause an uproar. Personally DA2's story was better than DA:O because Origins was told numerous times over through other Bioware games while DA2 was different. Just like KOTOR2 had a better story than KOTOR.

 

However with the adolecent gamers, they want to fell all grand and epic. They want their player character to be constantly reminded how important they are rather it being the first human Spectre in Mass Effect or the leader of the Grey Wardens in DA:O. I assume being the Champion of Kirkwall isn't as prestigious considering that the Grey Warden was the Champion of Redcliffe.

 

Oh well....

 

EDIT: In 2009 Bioware defended their plot structure. You can read it here: http://www.eurogamer...story-structure

[Zatche]

From what I've seen of the plot DA:Is main quest looks to be gaining allies for your inquisition to stop the hole in the fade...

 

I remember Gaider saying something along the lines of the game not be about gaining allies, but rather about increasing the power and influence of the Inquisition. Meaning, instead of signing peace treaties, we can increase power by building up military troops and taking keeps by force. Or we can increase influence by setting up trade posts rather than military strongholds. Stuff like that.

 

Increasing the Inquisition's power this way will allow us to progress through the main plot, which, as ArcherTactleNecks said, should be about finding and stopping who is behind the veil tears, not waging war against one big army of demons. Mysteries are not solved by gathering armies for one grand epic battle.

[BobZilla84]

I don't think Inquistion will be Origins 2 but I hope it resembles Origins more than DA2 because my only issue with DA2 was the fact that Hawke was written to be pretty much useless he/she couldn't affect anything minus the DR Expedition and the Qunari Arc besides those two instances DA2 could and would have been made with Anders as the PC instead.

 

I love playing as Custom Characters like Hawke/The Warden & Shepard but in some instances I would prefer otherwise like in DA2 because Hawke was not the most important character in the Dragon Age universe hell he wasn't even the most important Character in DA2 that game revolved around Anders & Meredith and the Mage/Templar Arc.   

 

The Entirety of DA2 is spent observing and not being able to affect anything wanna save you siblings not gonna happen you gotta lose one based on your class then they take the remaining one away as a Warden or try to tie Hawke to the Mage/Templar Arc by having the join either side.

 

Then once again they try to tie you to the main Story arc in one more glorious fashion with the stupid way your mother was killed by a Blood Mage only to find out that Orsino knew all along and did nothing thus another failed and shoehorned attempt to make Hawke relevant to a story that didn't need him/her period. 

[Rotward]

If it is Origins part 2, "pre-order cancelled". I, personally, don't want a predictable story. Origins was predictable, except for maybe Loghain's betrayal.

But it most certainly won't be Origins 2 (thank the goddess). 

I've never played a game that was unpredictable. I don't think that's a fair way to evaluate rpgs. I doubt that the ending of inquisition will be any harder to foresee, once we've seen the beginning. 

[dragonflight288]

I heard that Inquisition was the game they always wanted to make, but felt that the world stage wasn't set for it yet, hence we got DA2.

 

I've stopped thinking of DA2 as a sequel to Origins and instead as a bridge between Origins and its true sequel to help set the world.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

I've never played a game that was unpredictable. I don't think that's a fair way to evaluate rpgs. I doubt that the ending of inquisition will be any harder to foresee, once we've seen the beginning. 

It's not how I evaluate RPGs, it's just one of the main reasons I disliked Origins. 

And I don't want something clouded in multiple layers of mystery either, it would be impossible. Just want something that I won't figure out 15 minutes into the game. Like an antagonist most won't suspect.

[Jasuke34]

It's not how I evaluate RPGs, it's just one of the main reasons I disliked Origins. 

And I don't want something clouded in multiple layers of mystery either, it would be impossible. Just want something that I won't figure out 15 minutes into the game. Like an antagonist most won't suspect.

 

I honestly feel that the twists in origins were supposed to be of a more personal/relational nature than something epic. The plot was meant to be straightforward.

 

That said, Bioware has no problem doing the epic twist either. KOTOR and Jade Empire come to mind. However in those stories, the setting was more conducive to that kind of intrigue.

 

In Origins, its not so much. Inquisition's setting most likely will be though...