80 réponses à ce sujet

[CybAnt1]

but DA2 definitely did some things better, namely the action-oriented combat 

 

I think you will find this is a disputed point ... and what I'm discovering is it's not even clear that all console gamers preferred the DA2 action-rpg combat, either. Some have joined the Grognards. 

 

But, we'll leave it at that; I will say yes it's obvious some people here viewed it as an improvement, and others didn't. This is why combat threads can get, well, heated. 

 

I didn't mind the DA2 voiced protagonist as a thing-in-itself, meaning yes, like anybody else, I like the protagonist not to be silent and to have a voice; but there were some tradeoffs with the wheel and paraphrasing that I wish didn't happen. 

 

As of now, it looks like Bio has seen that some had some problems with these changes, as well as that there were people who viewed them as unmitigated improvements. My point being, it looks like they're trying to find a middle ground to move forward on both the dialogue and combat systems.

 

We know a little bit of that middle ground for the (continuing) dialogue wheel, we don't know it yet, really and fully, for combat. 

[Navasha]

Not sure I can give an accurate answer until I have actually played DA:I.  

 

Here's what I can tell you.   My initial response to DA2 was one of utter disappointment.    However, since that time and after a couple play-throughs, I realized DA2 isn't really that terrible of a game.    In fact, its actually pretty decent.   Its primary downfall was that it stood in the shadow of its predecessor, DA:O which to me is still the best game I have played of all time.    It set the bar for a sequel VERY high, perhaps unreachable.   

 

DA2 ranks above 80% of the games I have purchased in the last couple years and I buy A LOT of games. 

 

So I will say that my opinion of DA2 has healed on its own over the last few years.    It also helped me to reign in my expectations.   I had a similar situation with the Elder Scrolls franchise.    Arena was a great classic.  Daggerfall was buggy, but unbelievably great.   Morrowind blew away everything I hoped for.... then came Oblivion.   I was crushed.   The cycle of ever increasing greatness was lost.   Half my game was missing in favor of flashy graphics.   Skyrim though, turned out to bring back some of the joy for me though, since my expectations had been reset.  

 

I assume DA:I will likely astound me once again, if for no other reason than I will continue to only have reasonable expectations of it at this point.   I would love for it to rival the feelings I still feel for DA:O, but I don't have the expectation of a developer to release a 'once-in-a-lifetime' game every couple years.

[AlanC9]

My initial impression of DA2 turned out to be that the BSN is full of crap and should be ignored. I don't know what this implies for DA:I.

[Sparkleav7]

I had issues with the voiced protagonist in which the emotion behind what he/she was saying didn't fit in places, this didn't happen all the time of course but at times when I should have been angry, the tone of voice just didn't fit that etc...if you know what I mean.

[CybAnt1]

"You're not the only one" ... SparkleAV.

 

There's a therapy group here for people like us, it's called the Grognards. 

[KaiserShep]

I think you will find this is a disputed point ... and what I'm discovering is it's not even clear that all console gamers preferred the DA2 action-rpg combat, either. Some have joined the Grognards. 

 

But, we'll leave it at that; I will say yes it's obvious some people here viewed it as an improvement, and others didn't. This is why combat threads can get, well, heated.

 

In fairness, on consoles, DA:O's combat was somewhat crippled compared to its PC counterpart. I found myself a bit frustrated with the AI of the characters, even after tweaking their tactics settings, because I couldn't position them the way I wanted, which made the fights with dragons a bit irritating.

 

My initial impression of DA2 turned out to be that the BSN is full of crap and should be ignored. I don't know what this implies for DA:I.

 

This was pretty much how I felt when I completed the game. I was, admittedly, expecting to loathe it when I looked through the boards to get an idea of the consensus. The way some went on about it, it came to the point where it started to sound like it was Dragon Age's equivalent of Tommy Wiseau's The Room in terms of writing.

[TurretSyndrome]

The disconnect I felt between my character and I was really what bothered me in DA 2, which was brought forth by the dialogue wheel and the paraphrasing. I was against the wheel from the time they decided they were going to use it in DA 2, and no matter how much they said that it's going to be amazing, in the end it just left a bad taste in my mouth. The conversation system in DA:O may not be perfect, but atleast I knew what my character was going to say. 

 

I really wish they had chosen a new direction with the conversation system in DA:I, but alas, that was not meant to be. I had hoped the least they would do is let the people who want to see the full line to be spoken but even that is not going to happen. 

[AlanC9]

I think you will find this is a disputed point ... and what I'm discovering is it's not even clear that all console gamers preferred the DA2 action-rpg combat, either. Some have joined the Grognards.

Is "Grognards" the term now? It's amusing, since one of the core complaints about DA2 was that the wave system made battles chaotic, but the wargaming position is that tactical-level games should be chaotic. See, for example, the original D&D initiative system, before 3.0 changed to turn-based.

Edit: not endorsing the wave system, though.

[CybAnt1]

I remember people who were into the real, hardcore wargaming with figures on a hex grid thing that D & D/TSR evolved out of, and it is true there were a variety of surprise mechanics, usually involving terrain, like sneaking up on the enemy over a hill. Or doing like they did in the Last Samurai, and charging while being hidden by fire and smoke. Of course, any tactician who doesn't try and flank the enemy or find a way to attack from behind, rather than charging the front, is being silly. (If the option is available, of course.) And yes, presumably, it's never bad to send in stealthy assassins to sneak into enemy forces and take out the commander while they're sleeping.

 

I just don't know of any games where what you need to prepare for is enemies dropping out of the sky. I recognize today with airplanes, parachutes, and paratroopers it's an available tactic of the 20th century. But not in medieval times. 

 

P.S. I wasn't the one who coined the word, but I like it, because it has that wonderful Orlesian feel to it. 

 

P.S.2 I have no problem with enemies coming in new, sequential waves, even from different directions (that's a good tactic on their part), but yes, I do have a problem with them dropping on me from above. The rooftops in Kirkwall, holding all those people in plate armor, who never got hurt jumping down to the ground. Frankly, amazing.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Is "Grognards" the term now? It's amusing, since one of the core complaints about DA2 was that the wave system made battles chaotic, but the wargaming position is that tactical-level games should be chaotic. See, for example, the original D&D initiative system, before 3.0 changed to turn-based.

I miss the initiative system.

 

But it was always turn-based.  All 3E did was make the turns sequential.

[AlanC9]

@ CybAnt1: We're reading the same posts, right? My point was that there's a typical objection that DA2 disrupts your planning, but a real wargamer would expect his planning to be disrupted anyway. When someone talks about his careful positioning in DA:O, you'll usually find an AI exploit at the bottom of the plan, since the positioning would never work against an intelligent opponent.

[AlanC9]

I miss the initiative system.
 
But it was always turn-based.  All 3E did was make the turns sequential.

70's wargaming terminology would call original D&D "phased" initiative. It's a useful distinction.

[Sylvius the Mad]

70's wargaming terminology would call original D&D "phased" initiative. It's a useful distinction.

Good to know.

 

I'd say phased is a subset of turn-based, but I'm happy for the extra precision.

[Nefla]

Well my biggest concern, being forced to play human again was put to rest. It definitely LOOKS a million times better and I know they wont re-use environments again. That being said, we have not had nearly enough information for me to form a solid opinion, especially on the things I really care about: characters, story, dialogue/conversations, companions, CC, RP, and choices.

[Sylvius the Mad]

@ CybAnt1: We're reading the same posts, right? My point was that there's a typical objection that DA2 disrupts your planning, but a real wargamer would expect his planning to be disrupted anyway. When someone talks about his careful positioning in DA:O, you'll usually find an AI exploit at the bottom of the plan, since the positioning would never work against an intelligent opponent.

But DA2 doesn't disrupt planning as much as it does prevent it.

 

If DA2's enemies actually existed in the world before the fight started, and merely behaved in a way that required the player adapt, that would have produced far fewer complaints from me.

 

However, I also disagree that those AI exploits are a bad thing.  Remember, the player has the advantage that he can know how the enemies will react to stimulus (metagame knowledge).  As long as the AI behaviour makes sense in the absence of metagame knowledge, it's okay if it's exploitable with metagame knowledge (preferable, even, because it reinforces that the world exists independently of the player).

[Melca36]

Loved the characters in Dragon Age 2. Loved ACT 2. Loved all of the DLCs

 

 

The thing I will ALWAYS hate the most....................................is this

 

 

 

Im sorry but the enemies materializing out of the ceiling was ridiculous. I am glad the combat is changing for Inquisition. 

[KaiserShep]

It's baffling to see enemies drop from the ceiling when they could have just come out of the 3 doors in that area.

[CybAnt1]

When I look at that scene, I just wait for the enemy to scream "GRAVITY IS FOR CHUMPS!" 

 

Or maybe just "BANZAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!" 

 

Were they hanging on the ceiling, kind of like Spider-Man, waiting for the PC to show up? 

[AlanC9]

It's baffling to see enemies drop from the ceiling when they could have just come out of the 3 doors in that area.

 

That's the thing I've never understood. The ME games used the same wave mechanic, but they come through doors or around corners.

[wright1978]

I liked da2 despite its obvious flaws. The titbits I've seen about DAI have me excited.

[KaiserShep]

Trap doors. Trap doors everywhere.

[Ferretinabun]

Loved the characters in Dragon Age 2. Loved ACT 2. Loved all of the DLCs

 

 

The thing I will ALWAYS hate the most....................................is this

 

 

 

Im sorry but the enemies materializing out of the ceiling was ridiculous. I am glad the combat is changing for Inquisition. 

 

Seriously, just keep reminding yourself that this is Varric's story, not the real version of events. Once you do that, a whole heap of stuff makes sense - the ridiculous, cartoony combat, the hyper-sexualised women, even the recycled environments can be a metaphor for Varric's lack of interest in describing scenery.

 

I know it's an ass-pull, but it's one that works really well.

[deuce985]

I don't think they have any question DAI looks and sounds amazing at this point. I want to keep my hype very reserved but the positive side of me keeps making me think it's going to be even better than DAO. DA2 was a much better game than people gave credit for. Sure, it wasn't better than DAO but was a solid game in its own right. I will admit DA2 had a lot of disappointment for even me but DAI will make me forget it all. I remember red flags being raised for me during trailers and information coming out before DA2 released. I can't think of a single thing negative so far about DAI. It's shaping up to be my dream RPG I've always wanted. Something with Bioware's narrative in an open world with plenty of varied environments with discovery and insane customization.

 

It's almost unfortunate that Witcher 3 and Dark Souls 2 is coming out this year. Unfortunate for me that is because I'll have to lock myself inside by the time I get all 3. But yea, can't remember a year with so many AAA RPGs. If you add the niche ones on PC then this might be the best year ever for RPG gaming.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's almost unfortunate that Witcher 3 and Dark Souls 2 is coming out this year. Unfortunate for me that is because I'll have to lock myself inside by the time I get all 3. But yea, can't remember a year with so many AAA RPGs. If you add the niche ones on PC then this might be the best year ever for RPG gaming.

 

I find myself speeding through games haha.  Had to get Dragonfall done before South Park, which must be completed before Titanfall.  Gamer problems I tell you! D:

[sandalisthemaker]

Loved the characters in Dragon Age 2. Loved ACT 2. Loved all of the DLCs

 

 

The thing I will ALWAYS hate the most....................................is this

 

 

 

Im sorry but the enemies materializing out of the ceiling was ridiculous. I am glad the combat is changing for Inquisition. 

 

I may be a bit strange, but this had it's lulzy charm after a while. I mean just looking at this makes me bust a gut. Their poses as they drop to the floor are quite fantastic too.