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Why control is a better option for a canon than destroy


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#1
LeandroBraz

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 If you spend sometime reading this forum, you know that when people talk about making a ending canon, if they aren't saying that none ending should be made canon, they probably will defend that it should be destroy. I strongly disagree with it, but before I tell why (which I already did in some threads), I want to make some things clear:

 

 

  •  ME need a canon to keep going. It was fun to see our choices going through an entire trilogy, but it should stay in the trilogy. ME need a solid structure to be build upon and would be a disservice to keep it stuck in the past. It's impossible to keep importing our choices indefinitely and trying to do it will result in a lot of generic consequences, like the Rachni in ME3. For example, let say that the Geth will show up in the next ME, so if they died in your save the Quarian will recreate them and you will have the same story of other players that saved them, only with a few, almost insignificant changed details, completely killing the impact of your decisions. Generic consequences, nobody want that so canon it is. 
  •  This thread is about the ME universe as a whole, not about Shepard. I want to look at the matter without Shepard's death weighting upon it. Personally I prefer to think that Shepard died in every ending, but even if Bioware decide that they want him alive, it's better to get a retcon than to stuck ME to one possibility based merely on Shepard's death. So the perspective of this thread is that Shepard might be alive or dead in any ending (with a considerable retcon to help to keep him alive and with a personal preference to keep him dead), this way we can look at the ending free of the feelings we have toward the character.
  •  I won't even bother talking about synthesis as a possible canon. This thread is about control as a better option compared to destroy. I think almost everyone agree that synthesis is just too messy to build upon and by far the worse choice to do a canon.

 

 

 

 Now we can talk about control itself. All boils down to 3 matters: The reapers fate, the synthetics fate and the recover of the galaxy.

 

The Reapers doesn't need to stay around. One of the issues people find in control is how the presence of Shepard's controlled reapers would affect the story, but there's no reason to assume they will be present. They might just vanish, which I see as a compelling way to deal with the matter. They help to rebuild things, maybe set some matters then Shepard decide that it's better not to interfere and just vanish to dark space. This open a wildly range of possibilities, like religions being created around Shepard, "prophecies" about his return, maybe some fanatics doing "his will". He can be kept as a mystery, something that will leave his influence over this galaxy and might even show up again in a far future (ME7 =D). An example I can use is the Elder Scrolls Dwemer race. They vanished and became an interesting mystery. You still can see their influence over Tamriel, with their technology scattered across the continent and they might even return someday, since nobody know exactly what happened to them.

 If this isn't appealing to you, they doesn't need to be alive in control. Shepard might just rebuild and after sometime realize that the best solution, the best way to start a new era is to get rid of them. He might just send them to the nearest star and you will have the same outcome of destroy but with benefits (my next two points). Shepard might go with them to die or keep one reaper to "be" him, then go to dark space or hide somewhere in the galaxy. In anyway, you get destroy inside control.

 

The synthetics won't be destroyed. I like the outcome of Rannoch where both races survive. Why? Because it create an interesting scenario to explore. How Rannoch will be some years after ME3 with Quarian and Geth living together? They will live in peace, with an almost symbiotic relationship like Drell and Hanar, or there will be factions that can't get over the hate and will bring conflicts back to Rannoch? It's a disservice to the franchise to kill this possibilities and control solve this issue by keeping them alive.

 

 The Reapers will help to rebuild the galaxy. One of the major issues with ME3 ending is the state of the galaxy after the crucible is used. They even changed it on the extended version, where most Relays aren't totally destroyed, only the core is damaged. The Reapers rebuilding create a more solid scenario to work with. They build the Relays, they are the best option by far to rebuild them. In control, the galaxy rebuild faster, the impact of the war still something terrible but we still have pretty much the same universe. They might even rebuild the Citadel, after all, it's their own creation. I think everyone would love to have this iconic station back, right? Well, control make it possible.

 

 So, that's it. There's no reason to pick destroy as canon when control can achieve the same result with half the issues, or even something more compelling, like Reapers vanishing back to dark space. 

 

 

TLDR: ME need a canon and control have the potential to offer the best scenario to build the franchise upon, considering that you don't need to keep the reapers around (or even alive), the synthetics survive and the galaxy will rebuild faster.

  



#2
CronoDragoon

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 The synthetics won't be destroyed. I like the outcome of Rannoch where both races survive. Why? Because it create an interesting scenario to explore. How Rannoch will be some years after ME3 with Quarian and Geth living together? They will live in peace, with an almost symbiotic relationship like Drell and Hanar, or there will be factions that can't get over the hate and will bring conflicts back to Rannoch? It's a disservice to the franchise to kill this possibilities and control solve this issue by keeping them alive.

 

 The Reapers will help to rebuild the galaxy. One of the major issues with ME3 ending is the state of the galaxy after the crucible is used. They even changed it on the extended version, where most Relays aren't totally destroyed, only the core is damaged. The Reapers rebuilding create a more solid scenario to work with. They build the Relays, they are the best option by far to rebuild them. In control, the galaxy rebuild faster, the impact of the war still something terrible but we still have pretty much the same universe. They might even rebuild the Citadel, after all, it's their own creation. I think everyone would love to have this iconic station back, right? Well, control make it possible.

 

 So, that's it. There's no reason to pick destroy as canon when control can achieve the same result with half the issues, or even something more compelling, like Reapers vanishing back to dark space. 

 

 

TLDR: ME need a canon and control have the potential to offer the best scenario to build the franchise upon, considering that you don't need to keep the reapers around (or even alive), the synthetics survive and the galaxy will rebuild faster.

 

Your concerns are erased simply by setting ME4 an arbitrary amount of time into the future where synthetics and relays and Citadel have all been rebuilt. Functionally the only difference between a Control where the Reapers disappear and a Destroy set far enough into the future is whether the geth have Reaper code.

 

But you are right that some interesting things could be done with Control. Personally, if they canonize Control I actually want the Reapers to play a role in the story, where Shepard has become a religious figure, and you play one of his agents tasked with hunting down a geurilla force that represents the rebel threat to his sovereignty (credit to Dean for this idea). Ultimately you choose whether to help the rebels or Shepard-AI.



#3
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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In the control ending, Shepard talks about how he/she will "give a voice to those who had none" or "provide a strong leader." These certainly imply that Shepard will be keeping the Reapers around in the galaxy for whatever reason. Paragon shep might take them out, but a renegade one is gonna rule the galaxy. (Why either one wouldn't just assume direct control and order the reapers to self-destruct is beyond me.) The Reapers would be in the galaxy and would most definitely make any plotline either redundant or repetitive. Either any large enough problem could be solved by that fleet of mega-dreadnoughts or we would have to fight the reapers.... again.

They could just say the Geth had to return to their hive mind. The end.   



#4
nallepuh86

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Yeah, "omg some evil race is invading our galaxy! No worries shepard and his invincible army of reapers would come to aid and save the galaxy forever."  Doesnt sound very interesting.

 

 

There is also no indication that shepard could control the reapers, illusive man tried to control but failed, and shepard was being to slowly indoctrinated as well.



#5
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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Yeah, "omg some evil race is invading our galaxy! No worries shepard and his invincible army of reapers would come to aid and save the galaxy forever."  Doesnt sound very interesting.

 

 

There is also no indication that shepard could control the reapers, illusive man tried to control but failed, and shepard was being to slowly indoctrinated as well.

Well, to be fair, the Reapers, and Mass Effect in general, is very low-tier in the Sci-Fi technological scale, at least in military technology. Still, having the Reapers around would still make any individual pointless. 

And, as much as that should have been, Shepard DID take control if that option was chosen. The whole monologue at the end proves it. I mean, there really is NO play through possible where Shepard would actually chose control, but that's besides the point. 



#6
NeroonWilliams

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Thank you OP for bringing this up.

 

I've long felt that Control is the option that is actually status quo.  The only real change in the dynamics of the galaxy in Control is the personality of the AI that commands the Reapers (Shepard's overlaid on top of the original's).  It's one of the main reasons that my more thoughtful Shepards choose Control.

 

To the "Space Nazi" concerns that people always bring up in Control support threads, I will say this:

 

Expand the size of your imagination.


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#7
von uber

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Space stalinist then? :D

#8
zakdillon

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These are good points, but I still think destroy would be easiest to make cannon. All the writers have to do is say "oops - we thought it destroyed all synthetics, but really it didn't, and by reverse engineering the conduit (they reverse engineered the crucible, so we know its at least feasible), we were able to repair the Mass Relays fairly quickly." From what I gather, the epilogue soliloquy takes place almost immediately after the events of ME3. Its not reaching too much to say that Hackett misjudged the whole repair/synthetic stuff. He's no scientist.

 

They don't even technically need to address what happens to Shepard. He is a military commander, not a politician, scientist, or engineer. He would have little to do with rebuilding. (If Shepard is even alive -- depends on your play through.)

 

I also think that control was designed by Bioware to definitely have that "dictator" feel to it. I guess whether Shepard is a benevolent dictator or not depends on your play through.

 

I view the three choices more as "do you want to solve the problem through science, politics, or military" than "renegade, paragon, or PLOT TWIST!!", so from that perspective, I don't think there is necessarily a wrong answer. Just depends on your personality, really.



#9
AlanC9

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Your concerns are erased simply by setting ME4 an arbitrary amount of time into the future where synthetics and relays and Citadel have all been rebuilt. Functionally the only difference between a Control where the Reapers disappear and a Destroy set far enough into the future is whether the geth have Reaper code.


I don't think I would actually buy the quarians re-creating the destroyed geth.

#10
CronoDragoon

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I don't think I would actually buy the quarians re-creating the destroyed geth.

 

In a scenario where they made peace on Rannoch? I could see it either way. Xen would do it regardless of what anyone else thought, in secret.



#11
LeandroBraz

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In the control ending, Shepard talks about how he/she will "give a voice to those who had none" or "provide a strong leader." These certainly imply that Shepard will be keeping the Reapers around in the galaxy for whatever reason. Paragon shep might take them out, but a renegade one is gonna rule the galaxy. (Why either one wouldn't just assume direct control and order the reapers to self-destruct is beyond me.) The Reapers would be in the galaxy and would most definitely make any plotline either redundant or repetitive. Either any large enough problem could be solved by that fleet of mega-dreadnoughts or we would have to fight the reapers.... again.

They could just say the Geth had to return to their hive mind. The end.   

 

Yes, his speech show that this is his intention, which doesn't mean this intention can't change with new variables. The Shepard AI is something new, so is the reapers as "voice of those who have none". It might end up badly and Shepard might see that the best thing to do is to do nothing, just like the catalyst realize that the Leviathans was part of the issue that themselves was trying to solve.  Paragon and Renegade Shepard is a concept that doesn't really apply since we are talking about a possible canon. It's just not possible to cover both so they would get the one that fit on their intention. Plus, he is Shepard but he isn't at the same time. Since, far as I know, the speech as paragon or renegade is the same (correctly me if I'm wrong), so he have the same intention in both cases.

 

 Only to be clear about my position, I don't WANT control to be canon, I only see it as a good fit. If they decide that destroy will be canon I won't cry =)



#12
LeandroBraz

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These are good points, but I still think destroy would be easiest to make cannon. All the writers have to do is say "oops - we thought it destroyed all synthetics, but really it didn't, and by reverse engineering the conduit (they reverse engineered the crucible, so we know its at least feasible), we were able to repair the Mass Relays fairly quickly." From what I gather, the epilogue soliloquy takes place almost immediately after the events of ME3. Its not reaching too much to say that Hackett misjudged the whole repair/synthetic stuff. He's no scientist.

 

They don't even technically need to address what happens to Shepard. He is a military commander, not a politician, scientist, or engineer. He would have little to do with rebuilding. (If Shepard is even alive -- depends on your play through.)

 

I also think that control was designed by Bioware to definitely have that "dictator" feel to it. I guess whether Shepard is a benevolent dictator or not depends on your play through.

 

I view the three choices more as "do you want to solve the problem through science, politics, or military" than "renegade, paragon, or PLOT TWIST!!", so from that perspective, I don't think there is necessarily a wrong answer. Just depends on your personality, really.

 

I agree with you, they can bring synthetics back if they want to. That's why I don't like when people state somethings as fact when they aren't. For example, the idea that Shepard AI will control the galaxy doesn't matter what. If Bioware have an idea they like and want to defy this "fact", they will, simple like that. So yeah, they can bring AI back or even show that some AI survived somehow. 

 

 By the way, I think people should get used with the idea of retcon, because there's a huge chance that Bioware might use it to solve plot holes, or to help build a canon (if they build a canon), or to solve one of this "impossible" situations that people quote as obstacle for a sequence. I hope they don't reboot the whole thing because I hate reboot, but I'm keeping my mind open for some retcon since the possibility of this happening is real.



#13
zakdillon

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I agree with you, they can bring synthetics back if they want to. That's why I don't like when people state somethings as fact when they aren't. For example, the idea that Shepard AI will control the galaxy doesn't matter what. If Bioware have an idea they like and want to defy this "fact", they will, simple like that. So yeah, they can bring AI back or even show that some AI survived somehow. 

 

 By the way, I think people should get used with the idea of retcon, because there's a huge chance that Bioware might use it to solve plot holes, or to help build a canon (if they build a canon), or to solve one of this "impossible" situations that people quote as obstacle for a sequence. I hope they don't reboot the whole thing because I hate reboot, but I'm keeping my mind open for some retcon since the possibility of this happening is real.

Agreed. I think a retcon is about the only way out of this. Honestly, if they make it so Shepard could have somehow survived in all 3 endings, I think that would take care of 95% of the issues with "cannon". I think people dislike certain endings cause they want shepard to live. Thats a part of why I like destroy. Nothing wrong with it, its just how I wanted the story to end. If they were to retcon the endings in that way, I think most people would be ok. 

 

Either way, I bet this will be something like a codex entry in the next games. Not a major plot point.



#14
Iamjdr

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The reason I feel destroy would make a better canon then control is then they could make the game about how the galactic community put itself back together after the reapers fall. Also mostly I wanna see which races make a grab for power while the council and galactic community in General is in disarray. Are the asari,turian,salarians and humans still on top? Did the salarians not aiding in the war hurt there status with the council? Things like that. Plus in my opinion control minus reaper god shep feels to much like a reset of mass effect which works I guess but I wanna know about what struggles the galaxy overcomes after the war not have the reapers just fix everything and leave.

#15
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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The reason I feel destroy would make a better canon then control is then they could make the game about how the galactic community put itself back together after the reapers fall. Also mostly I wanna see which races make a grab for power while the council and galactic community in General is in disarray. Are the asari,turian,salarians and humans still on top? Did the salarians not aiding in the war hurt there status with the council? Things like that. Plus in my opinion control minus reaper god shep feels to much like a reset of mass effect which works I guess but I wanna know about what struggles the galaxy overcomes after the war not have the reapers just fix everything and leave.

The Salarians' decision to not get involved in the general war effort turned out to be the absolute best decision for them. The Salarians now have an intact fleet (with stealth dreadnoughts), intact economic infrastructure, and presumably very fortified territory. The Salarian Union will literally own the rest of the galaxy's governments through debt and treasury bonds. They would have a solid chance, if they so wished, to become like the Protheans. 



#16
cyrslash1974

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My opinion : control could be a good choice if, one the relays repaired, ShepReap decides to drive all the reapers fleet (including himself) directly to the sun for a global destruction of them, letting organics and synthetics living as they want, in peace and free.

 

However I keep in mind that Shep could be controlled by the reapers / catalyst (IT). As consequence, this solution seems to be impossible.



#17
Reorte

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To the "Space Nazi" concerns that people always bring up in Control support threads, I will say this:

 

Expand the size of your imagination.

Tut tut. People have imagination, that's not the same as being able to invent unlikely scenarios to get around the problems of the most obvious one.


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#18
themikefest

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I pick destroy so I can have a future free of the reaper threat. Shepard living is just an added bonus. Had Shepard died with high ems I would still pick destroy


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#19
KaiserShep

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I suspect that any option is going to have its details glossed over. I would bet that with either control or destroy, there will ultimately be no meaningful difference.

#20
NeroonWilliams

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I suspect that any option is going to have its details glossed over. I would bet that with either control or destroy, there will ultimately be no meaningful difference.

You are almost certainly right.  Still, the OP has a point; Control with the Reapers out of the galaxy is more status quo than even Destroy.

 

Since ME Next is being designed for the next generation of consoles, I'm fairly certain there will be NO save import options, and there will therefore be a canon ending that will probably never be directly addressed in game.  Set the game far enough in the future and the only reference to the end of ME3 may be cultists devoted to "The Shepard" who saved the galaxy.



#21
von uber

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Or..  you play as the Asari daughter of Shepard.. :P



#22
LeandroBraz

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I suspect that any option is going to have its details glossed over. I would bet that with either control or destroy, there will ultimately be no meaningful difference.

 

That's why I hope for a canon. There's no point doing both if they will convert into a generic reality with only a few details changed. I prefer if they do one full of details and leave the other for our imagination. 



#23
Eterna

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And, as much as that should have been, Shepard DID take control if that option was chosen. The whole monologue at the end proves it. I mean, there really is NO play through possible where Shepard would actually chose control, but that's besides the point. 

 

Then clearly you have a sucky imagination. 


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#24
AlexMBrennan

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The Reapers doesn't need to stay around. One of the issues people find in control is how the presence of Shepard's controlled reapers would affect the story, but there's no reason to assume they will be present

Unless, of course, you had actually bothered to watch the Control epilogue in which case you know that the AI entity will install a police state where "the few" will be protected via an armada of invincible superdreadnoughts. The AI entity cannot possibly enforce any kind of peace unless it retained the Reapers' military force. 

 

This open a wildly range of possibilities, like religions being created around Shepard, "prophecies" about his return, maybe some fanatics doing "his will"

The same applies to the other endings because religions, by definition, ignore the facts anyway. 

 

If this isn't appealing to you, they doesn't need to be alive in control. Shepard might just rebuild and after sometime realize that the best solution, the best way to start a new era is to get rid of them

You need to stop referring to the AI entity as "Shepard" - if you had actually watched the control epilogue, you'd know that the AI entity makes it absolutely clear that it is not Shepard. In any case, that completely defeats the point of Destroy (keeping the Reapers because they are useful tools) if you are going to destroy them anyway - all you get is a leg up with rebuilding the relays and stuff, at the cost of major inconsistencies in the actions of the various characters.

 

He might just send them to the nearest star and you will have the same outcome of destroy but with benefits (my next two points). Shepard might go with them to die or keep one reaper to "be" him

Scratch the above, maybe you should try actually looking at the ME3 ending before you write about it. 

The synthetics won't be destroyed. I like the outcome of Rannoch where both races survive. Why? Because it create an interesting scenario to explore. How Rannoch will be some years after ME3 with Quarian and Geth living together? They will live in peace, with an almost symbiotic relationship like Drell and Hanar, or there will be factions that can't get over the hate and will bring conflicts back to Rannoch? It's a disservice to the franchise to kill this possibilities and control solve this issue by keeping them alive.

So, you are fine with retconning the events of Rannoch but not the destruction of synthetics in Destroy? You are just arbitrarily listing the advantages of your choice whilst ignoring the fact that the other choice has the same advantage

 

"I think everyone would love to have this iconic station back, right? Well, control make it possible."

Yes, I'm sure everyone would love to keep a reminder of how the Reapers who now patrol the streets murdered millions of your people. 

 

"TLDR: ME need a canon and control have the potential to offer the best scenario to build the franchise upon, considering that you don't need to keep the reapers around (or even alive), the synthetics survive and the galaxy will rebuild faster."

How long it takes to rebuild is irrelevant because there is no reason to think that the next game will be set within five years of the ending of ME3 just because the next game will is released within five years of ME3 - whether it takes 10 years or a 1000 years to rebuild will only change whether ME4 starts with "10 years after the destruction of the Reapers" or "1000 years after the destruction of the Reapers".

 

Wow, the new forum doesn't even support multiple quotes for point-by-point refutation. One step forwards, two hundred steps back, right? 



#25
AlanC9

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The Sheplyst would have other options besides just blowing people up with invincible superdreadnoughts Cutting off troublesome systems' relays access comes to mind. Indoctrination too,  if it can work the bugs out.