12 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonata]

I'm about to do a new Dwarf Warrior walkthrough in Origins (Dwarven pride!) and, after testing how lethal both Zevran and Leliana can be with sufficient support by a proper Tank, I would like to make a very effective, almost unkillable Tank build. 

What I would like to know is, does anybody knows if an almost all-CON (with the proper STR values to use the right equipment, obviously) build works? I don't really care about damage output since my Rogues will do all the actual fighting, but I need a Tank able to withstand as much damage as possible and to acquire enough aggro to make such strategy work. 

Do you guys have some build suggestions in these regards? Thanks in advance for any help!

[Mike3207]

Well, here's my unkillable tank build. I've only been knocked out a few times, except when I got swarmed.

 

Stats-all strength to 32 at the start so I could get Assault as soon as possible. I went with the premise that the best offense is a good offense. I then put a few points in dex as needed to meet the ability minimums. Other than that, it's all been strength.

 

Skills-You have a good start with 2 in Combat Training. Persuasion 1 at character creation, Combat Training 3 at Level 3,  Combat Training 4 at level 6. if you have a Formari Tome, you can have level 4 by Ostagar.After I max Combat Training, Persuasion was the next to get points into.

 

Abilities:

 

CC-Powerful, Shield Pummel

2-Precise Striking

3-Overpower

4-Assault, Taunt

5-Shield Block

6-Shield Cover

7-Threaten

8-Bravery

9-Shield Tactics

10-War Cry(Champion)

11-Disengage

12-Perfect Striking

 

At level 12 I used 3 tomes. it may have been unnecessary with a warrior but I wanted all these abilities at 12.

 

Death Blow

Shield Mastery

Rally(champion)

 

13-Shield Defense

14-Shield Balance

15-Shield Wall

16-next level-Shield Expertise

 

My build is a little different from the standard build which is get the shield defense line early. It's worked well for me though. Perfect Striking gives +100 attack for 15 seconds, and it's made a difference for me in the Deep Roads.

 

You should get enough CON from your gear, but it's up to you.

[cJohnOne]

Well you need Strength for your armor and Dexterity for defense.  I think Getting more defense it better in DAO than constitution unless you use Shale of course.  A high constitution tank sounds fun if that's what you want to do though.  I just played a 50% dex. 50% cunning dagger rogue worked great in a party.  I think I used Duncan's dagger and the cheese knife from honneleath.  So now I like Zevran.  He's a dexterity rogue but using him might make the game too easy at least on hard difficulty.

[Blazomancer]

A CON focussed build will surely work, although if it's near immortality you are looking for a DEX tank works far better. It's your choice of course, but here I'd like to mention how I like my defensive tanks in general.

STR - as low as possible capping at 42 modified.
DEX - bulk of the points, if not everything; everything is better.

The defensive shield abilities are filled out as soon as available. Flanking immunity is the first priority after Shield Wall. Taunt and Threaten are also picked up early. I guess you can work out the ability progression yourself, there's not much that can really go wrong. Overpower and Assault are ignored till very late into the game as damage dealing is not the priority.

For specialization, I'd usually pick Champion first and Templar or Reaver second, unless it's Alistair, for whom obviously Champion comes second. Reaver augments Taunt and Threaten, while Templar provides one more CC. Rally is upgraded asap for the defense boost.

For armor, I'd get Bergen's Honor, Evon's Mail, Gloves of Diligence, and Cailan's Greaves; Starfang and Duncan's/Howe's Shield as weapons; Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering, Spellward, Lifegiver and Ring of the Warrior/Ring of Ages as accessories. These may change slightly but the general idea is to boost evasion, and have as much armor rating as possible. Dweomer runes do just fine for spell resistance. All of these account for an armor rating in the high 40's that may as well go over 50 with Shield Wall. Dodge chance adds up to 50% meaning every second basic attack would be evaded. As a dwarf, spell resistance may reach around 3/4 with the top tier runes. In short, I think this loadout has something of everything required for survival.

Having said all the above, I believe what actually makes a tank nigh immortal is a competent healer and supporter. Spamming defense oriented spells like Heroic Defense and Glyph of Warding on the tank would take defense rating sky high, which basically means that almost nothing except for special and autohit abilities will hit you. Also the occasional stun may bring in a small bit of hurt, nothing armor can't mitigate. That's all I think.

[Mike3207]

You might also look at the wikia entry Tanking-An Alternative Approach. I like the Awakening entry-it has some good suggestions on reaching 100%dodge/spell resistance in Awakenings.

[Ribosome]

lifegiver ring makes it so tossing points into Con isnt even necessary

making an unkillable tank is E-Z. just get the gear that gives you dex, dodge%, and defense and the max spell resist from templar. since youve got a fuckton of dex you might as well give yourself the best dagger you can find so you can clean up the trash

it gets even better in awakening. CARAPACE

[DarthGizka]

I agree, the rare occasions where having lots of HP is important - multiple grabs/rams or chain overwhelms, especially when mixed with webbing and poison spit - can easily be handled with suitable kit. The Blood-Gorged Amulet alone gives you +12 CON, and there is lots of other kit like Blood Dragon armour or the aptly named Lifegiver.

 

After I kitted out Alistair for his one and only fight of the campaign (the shriek attack on the camp) he had more than 400 HP, more than Shale even.

 

After level 12 - when the defence-enhancing abilities like Rally or Shield Defence/Wall become available - even a tank Warden can well afford copious points into strength. My Reaver/Champion Alayna stopped increasing DEX at 45 and she had enough defence to solo everything, including Archi's armies, without team support except for airstrikes against clusters of mages and mage bosses, and healing/buffing support during boss fights. In 20ish levels she started investing some points into CON and WIL in order to prepare for the unknowns of Awakening and Amgarrak; for Origins itself it wouldn't have been necessary.

 

Before level 12/14, DEX is much more important than STR, and more important than a few extra points of armour rating. The reason is that Glyph of Warding and Heroic Defence are much more effective if they come on top of reasonably good base defence, and even those buffs are only available after picking up Wynne.

 

Armour can be equipped with shoehorns like Harvest Festival Ring, Helm of Honnleath, Ring of the Warrior, Lloyd's ring, STR-boosting weapons and so on. Even Old Tegrin can contribute an inexpensive point in the form of a belt early on. That means STR only needs to be increased early on as necessary for abilities (like 25 points for Overpower, which is the tank's only shattering ability), or as needed to put decent armour within reach of your shoehorn collection.

 

There is also a surprising amount of +defence kit around early on. Thane Helmet plus Buckle of the Winds increase the +5 from early Shield Defence to +11, which raises it above the level of mere placebo.

 

P.S.: in my experience, flanking immunity is totally overrated. In the one or two occasions where you may have rogues in your back, a simple step aside is all that's needed to be safe from backstabbing. Against non-rogues, flanking means a marginal defence debuff in an even more marginal angle in your back, and I usually don't even bother changing position.

[Cobra's_back]

I always give either the blood gorged amulet or lifegiver ring to the tank. Need strength for the heaviest armor. I put extra points in dex for defense. Wynne's haste line comes in handy for your support. If I play warrior I setup the mage as a  deliberator. Warriors get secondary equipment. I give sword and shield bows, one-handed crossbow for special occasions when a few range hits help.

 

 

As DarthGizka stated health is important because of grabs, overwhelm, magic or poison attacks (staves always hit no dodging them) and boulders. Can't dodge the boulders. For Elemental resistance use ring of the ages give 20% to all elements. Elemental damage bypasses armor and can do some serious damage in certain parts of the game.

[Cobra's_back]

Mike has a point 100% spell resistance is excellent. This came in handy in awakening as well.

[Raging_Pulse]

For Awakening specifically, check this little guide/build for Sword & Shield Warrior (don't miss the videos). The guy solo's Queen of the Blackmarsh and the End Boss almost without getting scratched, while dealing pretty damn good damage (for a tank). I'm tempted to start another playthrough and try it myself.

[Mike3207]

One thing-Beyond the Veil gives you 50% dodge, 40% spell resistance but it has a -10 stamina regeneration rate. You might want to have a fair amount of stam gear for Awakenings.

[Jonata]

Thanks everyone for the informations & support! 

If I got the hint, I guess a CON Tank isn't such a good idea after all, because of both excellent CON-booting gear available all around Ferelden and the fact that there aren't as many instances in which a high CON is actually helpful.

I'll build my Tank around dodging attacks with DEX then, with an eye towards that neat 100% magic resistence you guys mentioned. Thank you all once again! 

[BronzTrooper]

My 2-hander warrior city elf (Berserker/Reaver) was pretty much unkillable.  I dumped my points into strength (2 per level) and constitution (1 per level) until I filled out the 2-hander ability tree.  After that, I dumped 2 into constitution and 1 into willpower, bringing my elf to the point of being invincible.  I always had massive armor on (Cailan armor set, then the juggy armor) with Indomitable, Powerful Swings, and Precise Striking active all the time.  Had the Spellward amulet, Andruil's Blessing, Ring of Ages, and the ring that was supposedly forged by a blood mage (forgot the name).  Basically, I couldn't die even if I wanted to.  Devour helped, and I loved using Aura of Pain to hit groups of enemies at once.  I also had some runes to increase my spell and physical resistance.  Destroyed the archdemon.  Holy s*#@, my elf was overpowered.  I'm actually proud of myself at how powerful I made him.  I bet he could destroy Meredith and Fenris on his own.  

 

Two-hander tree maxed, first bar of the warrior tree maxed, Berserker had three points, Reaver maxed, second bar of the warrior tree had two points into it.  Only got downed twice, though that was early game and I was experimenting.