43 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

The queer content of Dragon Age is almost entirely in the romances. As I mentioned above there are almost no characters in the games who are explictly queer and not LIs. There are no positive portrayals of queer people in the games who are not LIs. In some cases (Fenris and Merrill particuraly) the LI is debatably queer, hence the persistent arguement about bisexual vs playersexual.

 

I agree that romances is where most of the queer content is contained.  It seems to me that this could be a place where BioWare could improve, which maybe wouldn't be as obvious (to me, anyways) had we not engaged in this conversation

 

 

I think that you made a great point. The queer content is almost explicitly done in the romances. Before I'd trust a game without romantic content, I'd like to see them add more queer content outside of romances in their games first.

 

This is fair.  It's a leap of faith for me to say "Imagine this thing that you liked with this nebulous sort of thing that you might like as well!"

[Allan Schumacher]

(Call it a pixel-crush if you like, young Allan, but it's no mean feat to make a character so real and lovable. Try and explain to someone why you got misty-eyed at a Gilbert and Sullivan patter song, some time.)

 

Just to clarify, I used the term since I heard someone else use it, and it didn't sound disparaging to me.  Though my good intentions don't mean anything if it IS considered unflattering.  I agree that the characters are well written though and I think the interactive nature of games can work as a force multiplier for some people.

 

I had a pixel crush on Jaheira back when I played BG2, so it's not a perception that I am unfamiliar with

[Allan Schumacher]

No, not really. You can consider it a hint if you want to, that won't change how I feel about it.

 

That's fair and there's no expectation that you should feel any different, or see it the same way that I do.  What this conversation does, however, is provide some context for me when you use terms like explicit or hint, and that the applications I use for myself doesn't really work for you, and hopefully vice versa.

[Allan Schumacher]

So if ever they are considering a new direction, I hope they give it a thought instead of making romance, a staple in their franchise to appease some fans and satisfy their romantic fantasies.

 

The problem with framing the discussion like this is that I could frame anything as being "appeasing" to the group of fans that seek such a particular thing.  BioWare not having romances could be "appeasing" people that don't like romance.  It's a phrasing that is going to put people on the defensive when it's not necessary.

 

 

@daveliam No they are not. Romances are just added interactions with the characters, they do not add anything more to the actual story of the game.

 

Well, I think it's a case of people interpreting things differently.  For some, the story is the sum of all the interactions in the game, and I think that that is a perfectly valid perspective.  It's fine if romance content isn't content that particularly appeals to you.  I think that this thread shows that the content is valued by others too, however.

[Allan Schumacher]

While I empathize with the frustration of dealing with (un)romantic interactions going astray (and will openly admit that I have been the clueless guy as well), the woes of real life human interactions has probably gone on enough to distract from the topic in general?

 

Unless someone can show that I'm mistaken, I vote we pull it back in to Romances in BioWare's games again.

[Allan Schumacher]

I was referring to his last comment:



I'm sure it was meant tongue-in-cheek, so I responded in kind.

I was referring to shifting the conversation back in topic not bioware game policy


I am on my phone right now. When I get home I will tidy up the thread. I appreciate restraint when necessary.

[Allan Schumacher]

35-40 ??? No more like 28 something like that. Leliana is her boss and she's like 28-30 at the end of DA2. I doubt Cassandra would have a younger boss. Vivienne must be 40-45. And Vynne was probably around 50-60

 

Throughout my life, most of my bosses have been younger than me.

[Allan Schumacher]

Cleaned up a load of posts, mostly if it contained posts that had been deleted, as well as some of the other off shoots.

 

Some important things to note: if a poster is being offensive, report the post.  Please try to not engage, as it just makes it more time consuming to clean up (and I'm lazy and typically just close if it will take a lot of work... and I didn't want to do this with the thread... I've enjoyed the thread that I cleaned it up instead of playing Diablo 3!!!). 

 

Moderator response time will have some delay, so if you have reported a poster and it's proving difficult to not engage (people get defensive if they see friends being talked down to or something), please use the ignore feature at least in the short term.  Though while it's okay to encourage others to use that feature, do try to resist declaring it to the person that you ignore... it's not necessary and it happens with enough frequency that it tends to come across as a "Last word power play" type of comment and can be hard to disassociate, and it also creates extra thread clean up.

 

I do appreciate it if you try to respond in a civil manner... if you're having a hard time doing so, that's a good time to examine "is there something to report?" and especially "Maybe I should block the poster in the mean time."  The more off topic responses and so forth I see, the greater the likelihood that I close the thread.

 

 

I know, but I'm a teacher and it's just so hard for me to not try to school a young'un.

 

I can appreciate this and I don't mind as long as people stay respectful because sometimes people just need to see other perspectives.

 

Exercise judgment though and if it looks like a poster is not being entirely reasonable or isn't particularly open to actually inviting other perspectives, it's important to keep in mind that continuing to engage may help derail the thread further as posts will continue happening and not everyone will respond as patiently as you have.

 

 

In any case, carry on people.

 

Cheers.

 

Allan

[Allan Schumacher]

Can you think of an example (hypothetical or otherwise)?

 

Like, a romantic interest that takes the player character achieving/accomplishing something to take notice?

[Allan Schumacher]

Say someone that is very pragmatic, not prone to fits of overt displays of emotion...Inquisitor accomplishes two, three, four plot points going with "the Greater Good" as a motto. The most tactical plan, making neither a show of wasting resources on emotional decisions nor losing valuable ground. So, each of these situations increases their respect for you, for your leadership along side building the emotional connections through conversation. When it reaches a certain level of respect gained due to your actions, the romance becomes available.

 

Separated from something like approval, though, in that (perhaps on top of "approval") however else the player influences the potential romance interest, those "respect earning" events must be accomplished as a prerequisite for the romance to even begin in any capacity?

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes, separate. In that case, it would be specific plot points where you'd have a choose a specific way to complete them. Something that the Companion would respect in the execution.  And while a close friendship would not be barred, a romantic one would until a certain level of respect is gained.

 

Would that kind of be the failure state, too?  If in a romance, if the player loses enough respect then the romance character moves on?

[Allan Schumacher]

I would think so, maybe. If it dipped too low.  Say an end to a quest has one of three states. (Not that every quest will have all three (or any) possibilities)

 

1. Preferred.

2. Neutral.

3. Unsatisfactory.

 

I'd say, the player wouldn't lose respect so much for neutral decisions, but unsatisfactory ones would lower it. Going to a certain threshold could generate a crisis state in the romance...bringing it back up (through dialogue and future action) could save it or it could end.

 

I would think this would be better suited if not ALL quests had some sort of respect-attachment. But important ones. Or relevant ones.

 

I like it.  I do think that conversation content is still something that can have varying degrees of success and failure.  QADevSpeak: Keeping the respect-attachment contained to a subset of the quests helps make it easier to manage and less prone to breaking.  I'd prefer it this way as well, from a development standpoint.

 

I'd also make the respect "counter" a threshold with some overlap.  That is, say you need 6/10 to be "respected," but you'd need to drop to below 4/10 (not 6/10) to enter the crisis.

 

 

If Varric and Cullen (if he's a companion) are love interests for the player, do you think they'll be straight/playersexual?

They've never really shown any interest towards the same sex in the previous games; Varric only talked about liking cute dwarven servant girls and Cullen only crushed on the female mage warden.

Of course there is no reason for them to be not bi (which would please a lot of players) but IMO I will find it very jarring if Varric suddenly comes out in DAI with some story about how his first love was a male Carta rogue when he has never indicated any such thing in DA2.

Cullen is a bit easier to justify since we really don't know anything about him but even so he never showed any affection for the male mage warden.

 

One challenge is that, part of the issue with even just 5 years ago is that our comfort and familiarity level with this sort of stuff has grown (Mine almost immeasurably so).  Keeping a character bound purely based on "what we saw" from a previous game, when it needn't ought to be is unnecessary IMO.  I think it also moves into a problematic area where, for example, a bisexual character can only be bisexual if that character only makes explicit commentary that when it comes to romances, they like both genders.

[Allan Schumacher]

I was referring to Varric in my case.

 

I was referring more to Cullen

[Allan Schumacher]

You timed it like this on purpose. Sneaky.

 

Actually I have no clue what's going on when I said that.... (I think I do now)

 

 

So he's gonna be bi in DAI?

 

I'm just saying that the reasoning that he ought to be heterosexual, based on a single interaction.  It's why I specified 5 years ago rather than 3.

[Allan Schumacher]

DA2 had 5 romances, it wouldn't take that many additional resources (only 20% more!) to turn that into 6.

 

Also, while David's input certainly is important to the game, it's also important to realize that he's hardly the only writer, and his personal preferences may be put to the side in light of what the team comes to consensus about.

 

The "20% more" lacks the context of exactly how much that would be.  20% of 10 minutes is 12 minutes.  20% of 100 hours is 120 hours.

 

Though yes, I do get the impression that David is keen on sharing his opinion on things, and that that doesn't mean that whatever thing he mentioned has 0% chance of being in the game.

[Allan Schumacher]

Mine too

[Allan Schumacher]

It's also about representation, not just about romances. Having gay or bisexual characters in movies, books and games is good because it can make people feel more comfortable about themselves, give them someone to relate to and make people with different sexualities more broadly accepted, as media has a very large impact on our culture.

 

To be fair, we don't need romance content to reflect this.

 

 

Why would BioWare add themselves works, if in the end there isn't more choices for the players?

 

It would depend on how you refer to "choice."  Exclusive choice is very appealing to some people, and can enhance replay value a lot.

[Allan Schumacher]

Posts removed.

 

Thread is inches from being closed if we go down that path again.

[Allan Schumacher]

Thread closed.  When I say that a thread is inches away from being closed after removing some posts, it doesn't mean keep talking about the topic.